Asura.Eiryl said: »
They had absolutely zero shot. Until the devs nerfed it.
Still correct.
Still correct.
No need to talk this way to people who put a ton of effort into something like this.
Oathsworn Blade Master Trial - Cleared
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Oathsworn Blade Master Trial - Cleared
No need to talk this way to people who put a ton of effort into something like this.
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Oathswords might have been cleared (/salute), but the clear desire from some people of nitpicking comments out for 10 months of a group clearing attempts(with changing strat, nothing wrong there) is an outstanding mediocre mindset. Playing “whack-a-player” on a forum to somehow pretend you are superior is definitely something that people should try to beat. Thorny and others ask questions mainly, bring a form of critical thinking, usually without emotional disruption of grandeur. As a whole, I do not consider Thorny (I do not know him, never been on Shiva) a very abrasive nor negative person but rather very informative dude.
Folks should try that instead of saying “those 4 words 8 months ago then 2 more words in that 700 words post but then last week those other words contradicted your post from July… “. Can’t wait to hear how the strat evolves
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Speaking of evolving stats, u/Krumplefly on reddit gave me a more accurate translation of what the producer said regarding OB.
The producer said that OB would only be slightly more difficult that CP. He added to his comment though that, he recognizes that players will be stronger as time goes on. I'm not sure how much the meta developed between September, 2023 and February, 2024 but if I had to guess, they were surprised by how fast CP was cleared. I can't say if this is a confirmation of another undiscovered mechanic, but I felt the need to correct my previous comment. Edit: Bigtymer also said in our interview that, if there is a way of dealing with Teodor's aura, it's unlikely to be from procing Teodor himself.
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Looking at the dps a fomal/arma Rng is putting out, and Shiraj's comments about most WS being at 99k, it is safe to say a Pinaka Rng would take that to 100% 99k and probably lower reliance on SV buffs.
Pinaka has the highest archery skill, an always on triple dmg without aftermath and a PDL aftermath - but good luck convincing the two Rangers across all servers that have one of those to do the fight and hold hate against it. Quote: Looking at the dps a fomal/arma Rng is putting out, and Shiraj's comments about most WS being at 99k, it is safe to say a Pinaka Rng would take that to 100% 99k and probably lower reliance on SV buffs. Pinaka has the highest archery skill, an always on triple dmg without aftermath and a PDL aftermath - but good luck convincing the two Rangers across all servers that have one of those to do the fight and hold hate against it. I have a couple points to make here. First off, their rangers were subbing /drg so they could control enmity on their own. Pinaka isn't nearly as dangerous to use outside Odyssey as it is inside because of this factor. Super jump eliminates Pinaka's enmity problems on extended fights, so enmity would have been no worse with a prime than with fomalhaut or armageddon Second, they chose to use fomalhaut and last stand because they thought it would be better to spam 99k or close to 99k weaponskills at 1000 tp than to have to hold TP for longer durations with a prime. Fomalhaut's 500 tp bonus was relevant in making that choice. Sarv would have to be doing close to 99K at 1000 tp for Pinaka to keep up. Without actually seeing Pinaka's performance in this fight under such extreme buffs I can't say whether that would or would not have been the case, But I doubt it. Fomalhaut has tp bonus 500, and while Sarv has higher secondary stat mods than last stand, it's unlikely Pinaka would have won out with those buffs. Primes are better with closer to 2k tp so it all depends on how long you would have to hold tp to get 99k out of Sarv. For reference Last Stand -- 85% agility mod with 2.0, 3.0, 4.0 fTP anchor tiers and replicating fTP on both hits Sarv -- 65% agility/65% Strength mods with 2.75, 5.5, 8.25 fTP anchor tiers Third, just to provide some info on the matter of triple damage proc rate I can add that Pinaka's seems to be in the general range of 30-35%. I'm one of the few rangers who actually DOES have the stage 5 bow, and I've played around with it since finishing it up. I don't have time to gather several thousand shots worth of data to narrow down the range any further, but 30-35% seems to be roughly the triple damage proc activation I'm seeing. This isn't particularly relevant to the discussion. I'm just providing it because it's not heavily tested or discussed.
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Im just here to watch Eiryl get cooked
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It's pretty presumptuous to assume they are using Fomalhaut for Lack of having prime weapons....
If a prime is doing 99k, and Fomalhaut is doing 99k, you have to ask What TP Value's are they being used at. It's my understanding that they're firing Fomal last stands @1k TP, where as Earp was requiring closer to 2k to get the same results (with the buffs they managed to juggle). That means that Fomal DPS would be far better having to only fire 1 shot per WS vs 2. I feel like most of the 'theorycrafting' happening here regarding things like "Change this job, change these buffs, change these weapons, etc." all comes with a baked in assumption that the group that spent 10 months progging the content just didn't think of trying these things for whatever reason. I find that disingenuous. Now if you want to ask more pointed questions like "Why Fomal over Prime" then you might get better information behind the decision making. I dont fault anyone for trying to find better strategies.... and it's highly unlikely that what was used to solve the problem is the best possible strategy, end all be all. However, maybe we should try to replicate the strategy? Even once? Otherwise it doesn't seem like anyone worth their salt is trying anything new, if they're left trying at all, considering that the hardcore groups like Mischief seemingly gave up months ago.
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Quote: It's pretty presumptuous to assume they are using Fomalhaut for Lack of having prime weapons.... They have prime weapons, trust me. I know many of them personally. You literally just repeated what I said, and what the reasoning was. They chose fomalhaut over prime because of tp bonus 500 and the fact that primes usually need you to hold tp longer. In this case quantity surpasses quality. And I agree with their decision. I haven't ever used my bow under the amount of buffs they had for the duration of time they had them for. They only started the extreme prebuffing toward the end of their progression cycle. But I have little doubt that under those optimized conditions Fomalhaut was the superior pick. They did what they did because they had to and because it made the most logical sense. Personally I think this fight is stupid. I think it's another example of s-e being out of touch with the playerbase and the requirements they're setting for them. I've seen this fight firsthand (Two or three times mind, but I've seen it). And it's no stretch to say that the challenge level is disproportionately high from anything else we've ever seen. I'll be surprised if there are a lot more attempts that end in a clear even with the guide. You have to respect what they did because it's one hell of an accomplishment.
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Well they wouldn't use a bow either way since gun tp faster for RNG. But do think fomal is the answer here anyways.
Quote: Well they wouldn't use a bow either way since gun tp faster for RNG. But do think fomal is the answer here anyways. It's really not noticable. Fomalhaut + Chrono Bullet combined delay is 840 whereas Pinaka + Chrono Arrow is 614, and pinaka even has the same 10STP as fomalhaut. With no outside buffs I get 357 tp per shot using pinaka and 389 per shot with fomalhaut, and more sTP would make the gap even closer. In a party setting where I have a corsair rolling samurai for me there is literally no discernible difference in tp gain between gun and bow. It's all about whether or not Pinaka would be firing off 99k Sarvs at 1k TP or if it would need to hold tp for a while longer to get the same results. And for that I don't have an answer because I would need to see live test data to know how it performed. I trust them though so I'm gonna assume it wouldn't. Asura.Melliny said: » Quote: It's pretty presumptuous to assume they are using Fomalhaut for Lack of having prime weapons.... They have prime weapons, trust me. I know the them all personally. You literally just repeated what I said, and what the reasoning was. They chose fomalhaut over prime because of tp bonus 500 and the fact that primes usually need you to hold tp longer. In this case quantity surpasses quality. And I agree with their decision. I haven't ever used my bow under the amount of buffs they had for the duration of time they had them for. They only started the extreme prebuffing toward the end of their progression cycle. But I have little doubt that under those optimized conditions Fomalhaut was the superior pick. They did what they did because they had to and because it made the most logical sense. Personally I think this fight is stupid. I think it's another example of s-e being out of touch with the playerbase and the requirements they're setting for them. I've seen this fight firsthand (Two or three times mind, but I've seen it). And it's no stretch to say that the challenge level is disproportionately high from anything else we've ever seen. I'll be surprised if there are a lot more attempts that end in a clear even with the guide. You have to respect what they did because it's one hell of an accomplishment. I know a couple of them and have discussed the whole thing at length as well. I agreed with 90% of your post's assessment. Sorry my post came directly after yours, but my comment was more directed at previous comments in both this and the prior thread.... Not a direct response to you. People's attitudes based on their posts seem to just assume this group was inferior to other 'world first' quality teams baselessly, and would jump through any hoops to suggest some basic or blatantly obvious option as if this group was oblivious to it or simply ignored it. mel no disrespect ur cool and all but there are those numbers yall love to press in peoples face. you my friend are a prime example u know the numbers well but ur dmg just isnt there. you were unable to produce the dmg needed with only the relic gun on arebati. i failed with you so many runs easily 50-60 pulls ki2 55 percent or so and u still pulled out gandiva and we still failed. im srry but this is just a perfect example of yall and your formulas just not lining up. and again no disrepect ment but i was the run u made put up with that stupid bow. and after tanking for multi rangers who use only relic your dmg was just not there. i know you killed it yes yes and i also know first hand what kind of hell u put ur tank through against a bow that wasnt needed. so im srry but your rng information you know so well just does not stand with your rng dmg. so is it the formulas u use are wrong? or just skill isnt there? again not a disrespect shot i swear just a real question cause tbh im tired of reading about formulas from players who cant produce.
All this "no disrespect" is really reminiscent of "I'm not racist" talk.
You can't just say "no disrespect" and then insult someone, then say "no disrespect" again, and toss another insult. That's just disrespect. It's fine to disrespect the guy, clearly you seem to, but FYI that phrase doesn't work the way you think it does.
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Asura.Shang said: » mel no disrespect ur cool and all but there are those numbers yall love to press in peoples face. you my friend are a prime example u know the numbers well but ur dmg just isnt there. you were unable to produce the dmg needed with only the relic gun on arebati. i failed with you so many runs easily 50-60 pulls ki2 55 percent or so and u still pulled out gandiva and we still failed. im srry but this is just a perfect example of yall and your formulas just not lining up. and again no disrepect ment but i was the run u made put up with that stupid bow. and after tanking for multi rangers who use only relic your dmg was just not there. i know you killed it yes yes and i also know first hand what kind of hell u put ur tank through against a bow that wasnt needed. so im srry but your rng information you know so well just does not stand with your rng dmg. so is it the formulas u use are wrong? or just skill isnt there? again not a disrespect shot i swear just a real question cause tbh im tired of reading about formulas from players who cant produce. Comedy gold. If this guy ever gets pulled over by the cops, he is 100% getting tased and arrested.
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Besides the clear
Anyone else impressed how they find each other i can't get players to stay past 2 attempts haha
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buttplug said: » Besides the clear Anyone else impressed how they find each other i can't get players to stay past 2 attempts haha Social skills would help. I don't mean calling people ***, or pissing people off so badly they report you to a GM, more like actually making friends. That's the real endgame though, and even more than this master trial, a lot of people really struggle with it. Cause yours are so great lol
Your biased asf i don't keep screenshots of everything i'm not denying anything on my end They're lying If SE believed hya Wouldn't be playing anymore They did there own investigating In the e-mail it even sounded like SE finds hya annoying Should have saved it and posted Probably bring hya to tears Perhaps this is all a little off topic hmm?
what is a topic dex?
Are the DT and Regen the only things that happens to August while the adds are out? Does anything happen to his magic eva? And could there some proc system the requires August be hit with something while the add is out, like a MB of the adds element/weakness on August or something?
I don't remember hearing about anyone talking about testing this exactly. I know there was at least one group testing MBs in OB, but they never responded to me when I reached out. Edit: I don't think the adds' auras are meant to be removed. I'm just taking about procing August 6 times before Teodor spawns in to deal with the en-doom. I am glad people was able to beat it - It is always nice to see fellow FFxi Players come together and be cheerful to each other and show respect and kindness.
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Ovalidal said: » Are the DT and Regen the only things that happens to August while the adds are out? Does anything happen to his magic eva? And could there some proc system the requires August be hit with something while the add is out, like a MB of the adds element/weakness on August or something? I don't remember hearing about anyone talking about testing this exactly. I know there was at least one group testing MBs in OB, but they never responded to me when I reached out. We did try ideas along this line of thinking (taking actions on August rather than the add), to no avail. The leading question that spurred these ideas is: if August wasn't meant to be damaged while the adds are out, why give him -99% DT rather than -100%? Sometimes there is a rhyme/reason behind these seemingly odd design choices, and sometimes they are just a product of a skeleton dev team that doesn't fully think things through. At a minimum, it leaves the door ajar for TP battery ideas, which we also explored but ultimately steered away from.
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Carbuncle.Maletaru said: » It's fine to disrespect the guy I actually agree with Shang on this one. Most people on this forum are min/max ***, if you claim to know your stuff and keep posting numbers all round, telling people how they should or shouldn't play, it's quite comical to not actually perform and meet the standards when playing don't you think ? The way people deal with criticism is totally personal, if you take it as an attack and try to defend mediocrity then you will most likely stay an average player.
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Asura.Bigtymer said: » Ovalidal said: » Are the DT and Regen the only things that happens to August while the adds are out? Does anything happen to his magic eva? And could there some proc system the requires August be hit with something while the add is out, like a MB of the adds element/weakness on August or something? I don't remember hearing about anyone talking about testing this exactly. I know there was at least one group testing MBs in OB, but they never responded to me when I reached out. We did try ideas along this line of thinking (taking actions on August rather than the add), to no avail. The leading question that spurred these ideas is: if August wasn't meant to be damaged while the adds are out, why give him -99% DT rather than -100%? Sometimes there is a rhyme/reason behind these seemingly odd design choices, and sometimes they are just a product of a skeleton dev team that doesn't fully think things through. At a minimum, it leaves the door ajar for TP battery ideas, which we also explored but ultimately steered away from. And your results definitely speak for themselves. At least it leaves some avenues for further testing to anyone who's interested. Asura.Bigtymer said: » if August wasn't meant to be damaged while the adds are out, why give him -99% DT rather than -100%? Sometimes there is a rhyme/reason behind these seemingly odd design choices, and sometimes they are just a product of a skeleton dev team that doesn't fully think things through. Reminds me of Provenance Watcher, where 3 fetters out gives him -99% DT. Killing them removes his -DT%. The fetters also have auras, coincidentally. Looks like a copy/paste mechanic to me where you're forced to deal with the adds rather than ignore them.
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Have to kinda agree with buuk copy and paste mechs. Also feels more like punishment to me at least for us letting the whm tank the v25 adds se wanted us to kill em now u have to.
That is kind of what I was thinking. The -99% DT mechanic on August when adds are present isn't new, as I mentioned above. But every mechanic SE throws at us is intended to make us use a specific strategy to deal with it. Whenever players circumvent their design or kill the boss in a way outside of what the devs intended, it forces them to implement a tougher design that can't be ignored the next time around. Each step harder than the last. They might have implemented -99% DT on August for this Master Trial anyways, but I am sure they didn't expect players use that zombie strategy to control Teodor for almost 7 minutes and then use non-prime weapons to shoot the mobs down, especially when they specifically said they were making a fight to use your prime weapons for (though I think the clear did use Aria).
Whichever dev designed Oathsworn is probably punching the air right now that his master plan was foiled/outsmarted by players loading up on Reraise meds and zombieing a zombie >.> Slightly off-topic - My guess is, the adds in Veng20/25 Gaol fights were designed to be killed. They probably didn't expect people would power through that massive Regen and just let the adds wander about and focus on the Naakual. The fact that you can go in to Gaol three times and use different sets of jobs implies they were expecting groups to spend a KI or 2 dealing with one or both adds, and then kill the boss on the last KI. Probably the same thing with Bumba V25; there is absolutely no way they thought players would use Kaustra cheese to take him out. I am sure there is some mechanic where killing one or both adds at some point allows you to reset Bumba's stacking damage reduction or something, but players never got that far testing it (as far as I am aware) because the Kaustra strat came out and everyone used that method. So I wouldn't necessarily call it "punishment" from the devs, more like a game of cat and mouse, Hunger Games-style Moves and Countermoves. Maybe during the next AMA, players can stop asking dumb questions like Jishnu's Radiance modifiers and private servers, and ask the devs plainly how they intended the players to deal with X mechanics in certain fights. Doubt they'd ever tell us, but I'd be more interested in knowing their motivation for the fight. Who knows, they've dropped the odd pearl before with Treasure Hunter revelations.
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It would be nice if they at least
After a certain time period Released the party setup they designed it around BRD/COR/GEO/RDM/WAR/WHM Are whatever it might be i always tell others this is the setup we got to work But have no idea if it's actually the one they intended Lakshmi.Buukki said: » My guess is, the adds in Veng20/25 Gaol fights were designed to be killed. They probably didn't expect people would power through that massive Regen and just let the adds wander about and focus on the Naakual When they removed the add respawning upon re-entry during v25s release, I think it points to that also. I'm still not entirely sure whether I think this was a bug they fixed or they intentionally left it in place for v20 era to drag it out then removed it to facilitate killing at least one add in v25. I'm still not sure how viable it really is to do, though. The adds have enough HP and some have some gross TP moves as well. It seems like buffing across 3 KIs along with killing the add would be challenging, but I never could get anyone willing to try it. I also have a completely unsubstantiated theory that the boss gets some regain effect when the adds are out. We know Mboze has one, but the number of TP moves the other bosses get off when the adds are out seems higher to me and did throughout what progress I made in v25. It could just be that we're more tense at the end and it is in my head, I'll admit, but it does seems like something inline with what SE would do - basically give the boss regen, refresh, and regain the more adds are out. The only one of these that's really visible is regen, but it seems possible the others are there also. Lakshmi.Buukki said: » Maybe during the next AMA, players can stop asking dumb questions like Jishnu's Radiance modifiers and private servers, and ask the devs plainly how they intended the players to deal with X mechanics in certain fights. I really wish they'd post this. I asked the last AMA if the strategies we came up with were what they expected and they basically just answered yes, it was inline with what they expected. Personally I think they are full of ***. I had the same thought reading this thread and I'm convinced at this point they are just throwing stuff on the wall and seeing what sticks. Either that or there are bugs like the WS wall and the devs are too disconnected to realize it. Either way, I doubt they are going to do that because the people who should be play testing this stuff don't seem to pick up on extremely obvious bugs and issues, so I'm not convinced anyone at SE has done most of this content either and, as a result, they don't know what the right strat is either. |
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