HELP: I Want Work (Fresh Out Of College)

Maybe he assumed based on the statement you just got out of college?

Idk how old you generally finish college in general though, I always get confused with the american education progression

Typical college age in the USA is 18-23. Or perhaps I should say modal.

@Senaki

What I'm about to say is going to suck, and probably piss you off, but it's just how it is.

Your degree doesn't matter, your grades do not matter, nothing you did in school matters. Those are all things from your point of view, and while nice for you, they have no impact on the employers point of view. From the employers perspective it's all about "what can you do for me", and "is this person going to be a problem". Congratulations you just became a salesman, the product you are selling is yourself and your customers are the employers.

Each job you apply for is a different customer with different requirements, so you need to tailor your sales pitch (application + screening interview + technical interview / etc) for that customer. Find out what their current technical challages are and what you can do for them. Documented work experience is the most valuable thing, which you don't have (or do you), so you have to rely on your personal projects or things you have done on the side to draw experience from.


On the whole military thing. This is a great option but really requires you to commit to it and understand what you are doing. Each branch has it's own codes but generally speaking they all have technical MOS's (military occupational specialties) and you need to ensure you get into one so that those years count as "work experience". The clearance is nice and all but defense contracting is not a very reliable long term career path due to how contracts are bid on and managed.

What Saevel is trying to kindly say is, put your time and get some experience, its a part of life. A degree does not make it so your entitled to anything. Experience is the only true currency when it come's to your roll and placement of landing a job.

Your probably gonna have a few ***jobs before finding something you like, I have two siblings both with four year degree's and both and not in there respected fields or even fields that require and degree.

If your looking for white collar your SOL, as layoffs are happening nation wide because of AI. Which means there a far better candidates for the jobs your probably looking at.

18-22 is undergrad normally. 22-23 start masters (different programs have different entrance exams). Most are 2 year programs.
• Most ppl graduate undergrad @22
• Most people graduate Masters @24-25.

I got laid off a few months back and I have also been applying for jobs in data analysis. Even with experience and a reasonably strong resume, the job market is pretty bad right now.

The only advice that I can offer is what worked for me when I was fresh out of college in a comparably awful job market, which is to apply to a lot of jobs that aren't necessarily what you're looking for, but where you can at least utilize at least some of your skills to gain some experience. Once you have any job, you can often use that to leverage more pay and benefits when you're negotiating for the job you actually want.

JW, I've been writing Cover Letters and customizing them a bit per position. This obviously take a moment of time.

Is it worth applying with cover letters? Doesn't seem to be making a difference at least as of yet lol.

I started to get into this but it's worth expanding on IMO given his previous posts.

As a gov't contractor, like stated here, you are at the will of the contract. If your contract gets lost, then you pretty much just get laid off. I have a friend dealing with this now. It's entirely out of your control and usually comes down to budget. If there is a gov't shutdown and you are deemed non-essential, enjoy that unpaid vacation. You are also enslaved to a timecards, some people play this a little looser than others but I was hyper anxious about it because they put the fear of death into us about it, so I clocked out when I went to the bathroom or took a 15min break. Not everyone does this but still, you will need to account for every hour you work and that can be taxing at times with little flexibility. You will also be limited on remote work.

There also isn't a lot of vertical growth. If you enjoy what you do and are ok doing it for 30 years or until you retire, then it's not a bad option. You might get promoted to a tech lead position or something but you won't see a lot of upward growth as an engineer, which is what some want and some don't. If you love your work and are ok with the environment, then you can do it forever and not worry about being forcibly moved up. There is a lot of lateral movement available, though, especially with cleared jobs. You can change jobs pretty easy and often, a lot of gov't contractors don't stick around long and positions are open in a lot of places. Just don't expect huge jumps in pay or role.

I worked for one of the few that was actually good to work for. When the gov't shut down the PMs worked hard to get us work that paid us. When a contract was lost, they didn't just straight up fire everyone, they moved them onto other programs unless they sucked. They went to lengths to make it a stable, comfortable, productive environment, but it's a rarity and even they aren't like that anymore. I loved my time there and am grateful for everyone I worked with, but it was time for me to move on and I'm not sure I'd go back to it.

I have heard yes. And use some of the words from the job description in the reply.

IDK though, been retired for a while, avoided office jobs anyway.

A cover letter is the one chance you have to show you understand: the org & it's mission, the role & its requirements, and how your strengths fit into all of those things. If the role has any soft skill requirements at all (that is, if you interact with at least one other person or are even making a product/service that another person will use) - a cover letter is your chance to show you have a personality.

In a sea of template-driven resumes, a proper cover letter can set you apart.

If you don't care, why should they? But again, it's down to the type of org it is. Is anyone reading cover letters at Amazon dot com? :shrug: If you're applying to be a replaceable cog, I can't see how a cover letter would help.

Ask your friends/classmates/professors for any openings/positions if you're in the same field and if you can use them as a reference. Once you do get a job, get to know as many people as you can and continue building relationships. After building up years of experience, you'll be able to stand on your own merits and be the person that others ask to use as a reference/ask if there's any positions at your current job. This is just my condensed experience in my field, so your results may differ.

Are degrees 4 years standard? I put the 22 in to count for that, he didn't mention any placement year which would take it to 23?

How old they are is important to helping them more accurately. No shame in going to uni later. I went at 22 she graduated at 25. Was teaching in uni 3 years later...

Yes 4 years is standard in the USA. 2-3 is very rare. 5-6 happens sometimes (ex: covid). Master's are typically 2 years and can only be sought post undergraduate.

In the states it is very uncommon to teach university with master's alone, most require a PHD. Community college (2 year schools) might take you though.

I really don't see how my age is relevant to this discussion. I provided all the information necessary to my situation. Why would age matter if it’s all within 20-year old range?

I mean are you really in your early 20s as an FFXI player? Pretty much everyone here is 40 +/- a few years. Advice on career would be very different if 22+/-2 years, or 30 or 40 years old. I don't care if you're 22 or 23, that's missing the point.

"All information relevant" wouldn't be all info if you're older. For all we know you could be saying you've just gone and got x degree but there could be ten years before that which might be relevant to advising you.

The only advice I would give is try everything, if you fail to get a job doing the thing you want find another job in proximity.
Always continue to sharpen and develop your skills, and talking to people.

2 stories:

1) a old coworker of mine really wanted to work at boeing (i have no idea why...) he kept applying but could not get the interview. he ended up applying for a less skilled position (wiring I think), got it and then got promoted up to the position he was initially trying to get.


2) my company hired a guy with a masters in chemistry, to assembly the final product (i.e. not use his skills at all). but his manager introduced him to the chemist leading the fabrication team and 6months later he is working using his disciple. he had spent a long while trying to apply for jobs in chemistry but was never getting them, he gave up and applied to a "random job" at a place a friend worked. and completely unknown to him we have a lab where we need people with his set of skills, it took him the putting in the time for it all to work out, literally seeing us at lunch and sitting with us, but he became the easy yes when the position was posted.


Some people might just say these people were luckily, but I have always liked the saying:
"fortune favors the prepared mind" put in the work so that when the opportunity presents itself you can seize it.

No, not really, because they will be discarded. Resume's are now all scanned through OCR to do keyword analysis and score the resumes "strength", those with the highest scores are placed on top for HR to review. HR has even started using "AI" to try to grade your resume, with spectacularly bad results. People have countered by placing prompt instructions at the bottom of the resume in white characters.

There was another thread I gave advice on how to construct a resume that will pass that OCR stuff, it's about using action verb statements near the highlight how applicable you are to that position. Make sure those statements use the same terms as the the job posted as for qualifications.

After doing defense contracting for about eight years I ended up going private for a better position and job growth. That eventually resulted in much better pay. It was a pretty risky thing to do cause it resulted in my clearance expiring, but overall I'm in a better place now.

Have you been to any job fairs?

Talk to as many people as possible, try as many different things as possible, apply for as many jobs as possible. People I know that recruit will make note of anyone they talked to they liked at these sort of events.

Its definitely a numbers game.

I'm sure it might vary a bit depending on field/industry (and college vs. experienced) but last time I looked for a job I think I put out 50-100 resumes/applications (I don't remember) I got call backs on about 10-20% of those, i turned about half those into phone interviews and most of those into in person interviews and most of those into job offers. (and could have maybe done a bit better with the last couple but timing plays a role and you bow out or waiting for a company to full approve something or w/e)

If you know anyone who does something interesting (small business or w/e) poke your head in (ie ask them questions) invent a job. Data analytics is pretty broad in its applications show someone that you can be useful to them.

I’m in my 20s

In that case things are really tough right now. It's debateable whether or not AI is affecting graduate employment but most studies seem to imply it is.

On the surface, yes, companies are using this "AI Bubble" to justify layoffs and enact hiring freezes...but I only think their doing it to mask a recession.

The studies are based on advertised entry positions, not layoffs.

One thing is linked to the other.

More layoffs means the market of IT professionals is heated, so you can hire a seasoned person with lower cost, what affects young people trying to get their first job

Yup this is pretty accurate. I realized this after finishing my BA in psychology and quickly decided to go to medical school to become a Psychiatrist. There is a doctor shortage and mental health is so difficult for folks to access, so I found that I am needed pretty much anywhere. I have my own practice, make my own hours and work 3 days a week. It is a very good living.

It was a LOT of work to get here but worth it because I am not about to enter that rat race you described, sounds like a nightmare.

There was over hiring that occurred during the 2020-2022 window and some of these folks were hired at salaries that were way too high for their experience/role. We had some folks that were laid off 2023-2024ish reach out to us and some of the salaries they had were insane for the role and experience they had, like 2-3x what they would've made before. These folks have been getting laid off for a while now, but I think general overhiring is being reversed now and going the other direction.

Some of these layoffs are just trimming people who are unproductive, also, but not all of them (large scale layoffs will end up sweeping productive people too). Some are removal of excess product lines that are being killed off. It's similarly worth remembering a lot of products received price increases in the past 24 months due to inflation, now with tariffs they can't sustain another price increase, so they are starting to cut or severely reduce programs (like security) that don't provide strong ROI. It's all 'trimming of the fat' of sorts due to multiple factors.

AI has played a role in some industries, like marketing, but the idea that companies are laying off entire divisions and product lines due to AI is a little bit of gaslighting, a little bit of truth, and a little bit of companies trying to promote AI. So I don't think it's a coordinated effort as much as everyone is in the same position due to the same economic environment now and 5 years ago

From another thread:
Its exactly the same with this AI crap bubble. Disguising layoffs that really are retrenching for a recession is just icing on the cake.

The current round of layoffs is a result of all the hiring they did back in 2020~2022. During that time companies were over hiring as a way to deny talent to their competitors. Now that race is over with, everyone is dumping all that excess talent.

It really depends on your skill set and how good you are at selling that skill set as a solution to the problems a prospective employer is having. To "win" in the labor game you need to either be super cheap (India/China) or super high skilled.