Epic Pwnz Merit Pt!

Of course, if you can't actually read it, you don't know if that comment had anything at all to do with your roll request, lol.

So *** up. lol

Oh it was the only thing the cor said the whole party, and they said it only a short while after the person asked. They even had the persons NAME in the comment, so yes, they most certainly were talking about them asking for the roll.

Besides, i can read some, i just have trouble with sentence structure so internet chatter rarely makes sense to me.

my best merit party was by far a party i thought would fail in a way. sam/ninX2 drg/whmX2 brd n war. cleared middle camp not sure on exp but was a party i cant forget drg/whm healers ftw!!!

Yea, drg/whm is underrated :P
2 Drgs (usually /blu) can clear a camp by themselves duoing. I'm not really sure about /whm duo though, never seen it done.

You reminded me of one of my funnest pt's ever on dnc though. I was trying to get 75, i think i was at 73 and a friend of mine sent me a tell asking if i wanted to make a ton of exp, i said sure thing~ showed up and replaced a rdm in a 5 drg pt on mamool/puks. I think 2 of them were /whm if memory serves me right... I rarely had to heal lol. Made a ton of exp, but at the time i didnt use windower so i dont know for sure how much.

Drg/mage can heal just fine, but I'd rather just get a mage and have them sub sam for extra damage.

It's not that drg can't heal, but drg can't haste others (and once you bring someone in who can haste others, then /mage is no longer needed of the drg)

couldnt find a healer that day so party ldr told drgs to /whm. but yea to wat u said just wasnt no healers at all LFP ><

One thing i never understood though, is if you have a party that's 5/6 and self-sustaining (able to heal itself already), but have no whm or rdm for haste, then why do people add one? I'm going to assume the setup is something like cor, brd, 3x dd if the pt is sustaining itself well, with one of the support jobs being whm. At that point, hasting 3 dd's adds a total attack speed increase of 45%... So, if you think about it, instead of adding a haster, why not add someone else who can DD? The party as a whole will be doing more damage per second that way. And if they're already self-sustaining then they dont need haste for recast either.

ok let's say you have 4 DD, one of them /whm

The other 3 are fulltiming hasso

For my example, we'll just say
Brd cor drg drg drg

Now do we want a drg or a whm?

Each drg will have my build, 20% haste, double march from brd puts that to 40% haste, hasso puts that to 50% haste.

Adding 15% haste from a rdm or whm puts you to 65 total haste
15/(100-65) = 42% increase in attack speed, which is a 42% increase in damage.

Let's use 100% as a basis.
3 drgs 100 + 100 + 100 = 300%
4 drgs 100 + 100 + 100 + 100 = 400%
3 drgs w/ 42% increase in damage: 142 + 142 + 142 = 426%

3 drgs with the extra 15% are haste is going to produce a lot more damage than 4 drgs w/o haste.

But wait, that is the 4th drg subbing sam, fulltiming hasso. Our 4th drg is subbing whm, and has no 6hit, so the gap is going to be a lot bigger than that.

Nice job :)

There were a lot of things said about the COR in one of the first parties mentioned. One thing I'd like to point out is that the COR adding damage might have actually hurt the exp/hr because they were already having trouble finding mobs at points. The chain breaking is the greatest hurt to exp/hr in any exp/limit gathering party. And if the COR's damage pushed them over that threshold where they'd be waiting on mobs to pop then the exp/hr would have suffered.
~Tora

ahahahahaha.. then you get (ノ￣￣∇￣￣)ノ彡☆★━━┻━┻━━☆ in tells

Never had issues with 1 healer on Mamool camp... Seriously why should you need 2? If your killing speed is too slow and your taking too much damage the only thing you should ever consider is getting better DDs. I dunno if you had a bad experience with that (no offense), but i never went with 2 healers there, it is unneccassary and just gimps exp, period. If you had a mainhealer with a supporthealer in mind tho, i haven't said a thing. ;P


PS.:
The usual "melee-burn" attitude rly pisses me off theese days. Ppl just dont watch over the overall situation anymore, like when someone gets hit your trying to get aggro and prevent him from death instead of bitching at the healer afterwards.

My best pt ever was 2 brds, rdm and 3 nin at mamools. We did 30k+ without rings according to xp watch. Never run out of mobs. Bird camp is nice but sometimes the lower level mobs are too far to pull so there is dead time.

btw, Shurt, next time I'm on, let me come on my dnc. LS merit parties ftw!

Only idiots pull Skoffins when nobody has TP or there are safer things to pull...

Which unfortunately is every impatient princess bard ever.


Its generally no damper on your exp to just say 'No Skoffins kthx'. At least no worse than wiped buffs and munched people.

I've never been there with ppl that couldn't keep shadows up on Skoffins. LS merit pts ftw!

What a waste. Gimp it so hard /NIN for one mob that you can just avoid, and then likely not be killing fast enough to need to pull that mob anyway.

I like this.

My last Jade Sepulcher party was WAR/NIN x3, BRD/NIN, BRD/WHM, and WHM/SMN. One of the WAR was a new WAR75, without WAR merits, Byakko's, etc., and both BRD and WHM forgot Dia II.

Even like that, we usually killed one Skoffin every trip to the clearing's edge. And, yes, IMO /NIN was nice for keeping HP high before Fang Rush--pretty sure that WAR who a particularly nasty 800+ Fang Rush would agree. (Utsusemi is pretty nice when fighting Mamool Ja, too.)

I'm OK with a little less max exp/hour potential if it means DD go /NIN; the only thing can slow down the exp/hour more than a K.O. followed by a 5 minute weakness is more than one K.O. (*shrug* I'm the man-cat prince(ss?) BRD/NIN puller, and I approve erring on the side of safety.)

"I'm OK with a little less max exp/hour potential if it means DD go /NIN;"
This is why we go to birds. More exp/hr less risk of death, ect. No pt that can take care of themselves should ever need to require any DD go to /nin.

Hmm, I said my best pt was 30k+ at MJSP with 3 nin, so not sure how shadows are gimping anyone. It was a JP pt and they killed the Skoffins as fast as normal pts kill pucks. Guess no1 knows how to play nin.

As for other jobs, MNK owns MJSP and there only 2 choices for sub are /nin and /war. /war is fine because they have the HP and def to take a hit from a skoffin. Maybe I'm just spoiled having relic and my healers just don't run out of mp.

/nin on SAM or a 2nd WAR is gimp. Let the SAM or the WAR/SAM tank on Skoffin. You ever seen Fang Rush or Pecking Fury or a Dmging Multi hit WS go through third eye? Your main Provoke should only have shadows after that the mob doesnt live long enough to do any dmg. Third eye + Seigan is extremely strong if you know how to use it. SAM/WAR w/ seigan + third eye will out DD a SAM/NIN w/ hasso

pt'd at bird camp with a drg/sam, he was pretty much 1 shotting the birds. Sam is cool but not my favorite for bird camp. The nice thing about drg/sam is they have super jump to shed hate if they don't kill the mob. sam/war doesn't and if they pull hate at 80% and get pecking flurried while the rdm is casting refresh or something, then they die. A dead melee doesn't do any damage. Don't get me wrong but some xp pts I'd rather see some ppl just sub nin. For the most part a rdm with my horn should never run out of mp and when I see a rdm having to rest, it makes me a sad panda.

I'm a DRK and even I don't die to 1 Pecking Flurry. Would have to be 2 in a row or 1 with a big crit after and that would only kill me with low hp or Last Resort on.

If the sam/war gets hate by WS and its only at 80% there is something wrong with that sam. But as i previously stated pecking furry can not go through third-eye and by the time third eye is off the mob should be dead. Might be just me but i deal more dmg and get hit less /war than /nin especially when a 5hit WS with 3 shadows still means u get hit twice. and if u get hate and have 1 shadow left u get hit 4. but with third eye it is always 0

No, I meant a sam wsing at 80% and not coming near killing it. Then dying to PF. Seen it too many times.

Of course Fire spit at MJSP is the same thing.

Seigan/Third Eye or just Third Eye before you WS can prevent that >_>

I'm actually lucky since I usually merit with a LS mate that has Bravura. He's criting for what normal ppl are wsing for so he always has hate.

Incorrect.
Say all the DD's have 20% haste gear and just to make the numbers easier, 35% gained from song/spell/hasso, this is what we get with three /sam:
155% + 155% + 155% = 465% total attack speed amongst the pt (This is RDM BRD/NIN COR/WHM 3x DD setup like i mentioned.)

Ok now with 4x DD with 20% gear, hasso, and song (+gonna say +40%, rounding again the exact same way as mentioned above):
140% + 140% + 140% +140% = 560% total attack speed amongst the pt. (This would be Brd/Nin Cor/Whm, 4x DD)

Adding a 4th damage dealer adds more DPS than adding a haster if the party is already self sustaining.
My point still remains valid.

Even if they're all subbing nin, you have to subtract 10% from each of the figures, including the 3 dd set up, meaning it's still more beneficial to add a 4th DD. It always will be, regardless of sub. They could all be /mnk for all it matters. The percentage increase will always be the same.

Just for fun to further prove my point: Say all 4 DD's are subbing nin, they then lost 10% haste:
130 + 130 + 130 + 130 = 520... Still a lot better than 465 of 3 /sam's with a whm or rdm hasting them. The 4 /nin's don't even have a whm or rdm hasting them, nor do they have hasso, so they lost a total of 25% haste, yet STILL will do more DPS total.

Veronica, haste is exponential. You're just adding haste, which is why your numbers are incorrect. It doesn't work like that.

There is a reason haste is so good. It isn't a linear function. The more haste you get the better it is.

You don't just do 120 + 35 = 155

The reason why it doesn't work like that is because haste doesn't work like this:
For example, let's say you're going at 100% attack speed, add haste spell for 50% haste. You aren't going at 150% attack speed (x1.5 as fast) you are going x2 as fast (double). The way haste works is that it's directly deducted from delay.

So let's say you have 100 delay, 50% haste. 100 delay x .5 = 50 delay, which is double the speed, not x1.5

That being said, there are two quick/simple ways to get the increase from added haste, either of which we can use.

Added haste
------------ x 100 = % increase which is what I used
(100-total haste)

Or, you can go purely off delay

1
------------------- x 100 = % increase
(New delay/Old delay)

Ok, I'll show you an example, using both formula.

Our drgs have 50% haste before adding haste, 65% after adding haste
15/(100-65) = 15/35 = .42857 x 100 = 42.857~ 42.8% increase in damage

Now, let's use formula II. Drgs are using 492 delay polearms, 50% haste vs 65% haste
492 x .5(50% of delay remaining) = 246 delay
492 x .35(35% of delay remaining when adding 65% haste) = 172.2 delay

1
----------- = 1.42857 = 142.8%
(172.2/246)

since there was a one as a place holder in this case, they both have 100%, dock that off both sides, and what you're left with is the increase, 42.8%

Your math WOULD be correct, if haste was a linear increase, but it isn't, the more haste you have, the more attack speed you gain.
(172.2/264)

That being said, my previous number, which you stated as incorrect, are, in fact, correct.