Denali Bonnet

So, the Denali bonnet and I have an incredible hatred for each other. I've been on countless many HNM100's and got outlotted every time. It's been about 5 months now, and I have yet to own one.

My question is this, I've noticed a lot of other's saying the Denali bonnet is gimp and that I shouldn't be working so hard to get it. I would like to know why. I was going to ask this on KI but, yeah... The stats on the bonnet are great. The only thing you're losing compared to the Wally is 1% Haste. Is 1% Haste really that important to where one would go around calling every THF wearing this, gimp?

Like, the Blitz Ring being 800k on Asura, and Dusk Gloves +1 being 900k.

Is 1% Haste really that worth it? I unequip and equip 3% and still fail to see the difference.

I'm sure there's going to be many legit and illegitimate excuses and reasons thrown at you why "x" piece is better than "y" piece, but as far as I can tell, you sacrifice 30 hp, 1% haste for 3 attack, 4 agi and 3 eva. However, all 3 of those stats are conditional on their own, meaning at best this for thief would be used for trick attack or soloing piece.

It's also worth noting that haste works best when compounded together by other haste giving equipment and 1% can make all the difference in the long run. Also mainly turban can be worn by all jobs, this will only help a handful, thus looking more and more like inven +1 to most people.

SoloTA only. Solo, you should either need heavy evasion (Optical/Empress etc) or be going for killspeed (5% Haste).

Is 4 attack really more important than 1% haste?


Take monk for example.
Destroyers
Walahra Turban
Black Belt
Byakkos
Usukane Feet

23.63% haste.

+haste + double marches that puts your delay at:
149.5313

losing 1% haste increases the delay to:
152.9297

(thats if ive got the calculations right.. probobly dont!)

at the end of the day. Is the 4 attack going to increase your damage at all compared to the delay reduction that you get from stacked haste?

A few people say the 4 attack is worth it... I dont see why it is.

granted you are asking for a THF piece but i cant work out that stuff cuz i too lazy and tired lol.

It's true that attack benefits thief alot more than most jobs due to the use of daggers and the shorter STR cap, however, 3 attack is pretty insignificant compared to say, the food you eat, or more importantly: 1% haste.

Hey that 4 agi and 3 evasion will make you evade and parry a bit more and the defence while only 21 is quite a lot on thfs quite weak defence.

Could save you on stuff that hits kinda hard and if you really want that 1% extra haste for recast you can always make a recast macro.

The AH price for stuff like dusk gloves +1 is like ppl showing they had them at the time its a joke price, they can bazaar from anything to 13M-30M+.

if i want to evade ill use an ohat tyvm.

If you are soloing then you want true solo gear not half assed hybrid gear. If you are in merit pt then you want to be wearing stuff thats useful for what it is that you are doing. Evading and parrying are not high in the priority list when you are trying to get as many WS off in as short a time as possible.

I see.

I wouldn't use it just for the 4 atk, it's mainly for the Haste/Eva into one. Though, I found it useful completely on that notion of it being 'hybrid.'

I am a solo THF by far, though. Farm a lot, and I really only fight higher level stuff like Gods for my Sky LS, and in that sitation, I use my O. Hat and SH.

Thanks for the words so far. It helps. ^^

I should add that I also have COR that can wear it, and DNC that will be able to wear it. Does that help any?

Dusk Gloves +1 are 900k on your server? Son of a *** *** they're 18M on my server and still worth the price.

Last few pairs that were sold were for joke prices. Same person sold, same person bought. Lol But yes, last legitimate price was 900k something.

Edit : That was a joke sale, too. Last real legit sale was 19mil, but that was a LONG time ago.

Corsair's Tricorne +1


If I had it for my DNC then Id still end up using my W.Turban since i love to stack haste. Usually hitting above 0 for TP isnt a problem so I just go for haste.

W.Turban 5%
Dusk Hands 3%
Swift Belt 4%
AF2 pants 3%
Dusk Feet 2%

= happy dnc

I use Anwig to WS in and Wally to TP in.

For the 2 times a week I /WHM in Dynamis, I figured it'd be useful for the MND for cures.

If ya like it then get it and use it. 1% Haste does not matter if ya talking about just one piece.. no one will care or notice in game- only when they can spew numbers on forums does it make a difference.

For example, on my COR I use Rajas/DenaliLegs for TPing even though Behe+1/EnkiduLegs gives ~RACC+6 over it with keeping the StoreTP+5 I need for 20TP per shot. Looks better and I can't tell any difference.. But on 'paper' I'm stupid and gimp.. oh well. Also, not that it matter but, I get more comments about how shitty my stuff looks with the 'better' set than my RACC being 'gimp' with Denali.

"If ya like it then get it and use it. 1% Haste does not matter if ya talking about just one piece.. no one will care or notice in game- only when they can spew numbers on forums does it make a difference."

"Quote" isn't working for some reason.

Thank you for that, that's the main reason I avoided KI. We have a very well known THF on Asura who I talked to and got some good pointers and input. I mainly just saw the bonnet as the 'perfect' piece for how I play THF. Farm and poke ***once or twice for TH. ^^;

Hey Xeno ^^. I hope I was able to help out the other day with my advice.

Actually, I /just/ bought DuskGloves+1 from Railieca for 19m last week! And that's actually cheap ^^. I believe high-end items like that are currently increasing in price, as more and more players get to the point where there is little more they can do to improve their character, other than by buying these ridiculous items. In the past six months I've seen Speed belt climb from 30m to 40m. A year ago you could get one for 20-25. Just another example.

The only time you should really tp in denali is if you are soloing AND blink is down, so that the def is making a difference. Mind you this only really applies to things that can hit you hard enough you care but not hard enough that it would make much of a difference. So I'd say maybe barely TWs to VTish. The reason why it makes a bigger difference here is partly cause you have less haste to start out with so it does less too.

And yes 1% haste can make a huge difference. If you are getting double march and haste and are already at say 20% gear haste actually a 2.2% increase in att speed. So 2.2% increase in dot during tp phase and you get to 100% that much faster. Put more haste on say samba and your gear haste more like 25 with turban and it's more like 3.3%

4att at say 400 att (about what you can get as a thf with pizza) 1.4-2.6% increase in dmg during tp phase. Even less on crit hits.

19mil.....

I suppose if I dedicated a large chunk of my life to this game, (yes even more than I already do :P) that I too, could have an extra 1% haste after a few aneurysms, a foreclosure from lack of paying my bills because I wouldn't have time to go to work since I need that 1% - I too, could join the ranks of the elite.

~sigh~ oh well, so much for that 1%, likely HQ'd by some RMT piece of crap who most likely was responsible for that friend of your's getting hacked whenever.

I'm gonna have to settle for the NQ :P

Please forgive my pessimistic nature.

In answer to your question; if you like it, do it.
Personally, I have the bonnet but I didn't get it before leveling my Nyzul disc all the way to 100, which, ironically enough, I got my bonnet via a random shout group and I just happened to win the lot. My point is that you say you want it and have spent 5 months trying - my suggestion is this;
Level your disc.
Once that's done, then you can lock Denali and do your own runs. Once it drops, you can breathe a sigh of relief and hold your head up high with red velvet and feathers galore.
The best part of having your disc capped is that it only takes 250 WSP to unlock beastly WSs like King's Justice and Drakesbane, which in my opinion, will benefit you more than 4 attack. A war making Light? That's just awesome, there again, in my opinon ^^
Since you've done quite a few runs over the past 5 months, I'm guessing you have a nice little nest-egg of tokens built up - you can even do some HNM after you get Denali/Askar/Goliard.
The point is that unless you make "yourself" capable, the sad fact of the matter is that SE is gonna keep hanging that carrot on a stick.

If you cannot reach the cupboard, get a chair. If the chair is not tall enough, get a ladder.

As of today, I got my bonnet and I do love it. I was telling Shamaya that I am a solo THF, or I'm just there to poke Gods, which in that case, O. Hat, so I found this extremely useful for my THF. Everything else to where Wally Turban would trumph at, I'm on Corsair. Lol Life of a support job.

Now I can finally concentrate on my disc. Though, floor 30 is kind of an odd floor. :/ Can never get people together.

You do bring up some creative but very true little sayings in there, Welfare.

I was in Delkfutt's farming bracelet pops with 2 of my friends and found myself occasionally switching back and forth from the Turban to the bonnet, and I still have yet to notice a Haste difference. If anything, I notice more damage on my TA's from the +4 AGI.

I figure, if I'm going to be a solo THF, might as well look good while doing it! Oh~hohohoho~

Thanks all for the help~

only thing ohats good for on thf is bolts btw.

what are you talking about true soloing?... can you give me one example where ohats 5 eva over denali will make or break fight? a thief going for dot #s will use walahra because 1% haste, over time, trumps 4att by a bit no ifs ands or buts...
but i can give you a million examples of where an eva and haste, or "half *** hybrid..." sets can be/are great combinations for thf solo/duo still.

I think he might mean the really accurate mobs where you really need as much evasion as possible and there is no rage timer that makes it so you have to kill fast.

In which case I'd still use Gnole Crown or hairpin instead or even Wivre Mask +1 instead

askin you too then i guess. what would an example be of something that the 5 eva will -make/or break- fight? theres nothing just hard enough to be outside of bonnet capabilities and just doable enough to be in front of impossible in the first place, fitting perfectly in the ohat realm.

I think it's a matter of getting in the habit of making said choice once you will make it again.

Also depends on the rest of your gear. It is possible for 5 evasion to make the difference between keeping blink up or not.

Or it might help you be able to ichi tank so you can use Ni as a back.

Frankly I don't solo on thf that much yet but considering how much an effect just 5 acc can have it is in the realm of possibility for 5 evasion to bye you an extra attack round giving your recast time to finish. While 4 haste if you are properly evasion tanking won't make or break you at all.

Also slower attack speed means slower tp giving to mob which will help give you more time to recover from the tp moves.

Also my suggestions were all a tad better than just 10 evasion.

Also I wanna try it on something rediculously hard for a thf to solo like say Chary. In which case all out evasion lol. Well maybe not I'll see how much I need since the plan I have I don't have to worry about saving Ni

Hey sorry to hijack again but... all this talk over haste, I need DIRECTION FROM THE PROS. Please if anyone has time, thank you --- I have a question if anyone is willing.

For DRG -- best possible TP situation and definitive piece: Walahra Turban or Ace's Helm? If it matters, paired with Homam Hands(H3), Aurum Feet (H2)[eventually Homam Feet(H3)], Swift Belt (H4). So 492 Delay, and 14% haste with W. Turban/Ace's Helm+Blitz Ring, or 13% haste with Ace's Helm.

Now before you say Ace's Helm + Blitz Ring, isn't that the same thing as Walahra Turban + Toreador's Ring? So nothing is gained, aside from 4 more STR on your TP set? I have begun to wonder if Ace's Helm is just more status points than actually being better. Thanks for any suggestions/comments. I apologize if there was any errors in my post as I'm very tired.

i stand by my sentiments.. i dont believe there is anything you could tank in x set with o hat that you couldnt with identical set and bonnet. a decent application off the bat i can think off for haste/eva would be duoing puk isnms. hq rdm debuffs can make it a joke, having no problem tanking in full haste.. but with an avg rdm, or even blm, full eva and 10% haste on gear + spell(or not), on top of an otherwise full eva set makes for 5, 6 min easy fights. soloing v. vivian if you were ever so inclined is another decent example of using haste/eva. theres no ragetimer per se, but killing in the 15-20 mins youll have before spider repops are an issue again.. is optimal

Well I meant mostly soloing. If you can't keep shadows up in a mixed set on thf with debuffs and haste support then probably shouldn't be duoing that mob.

You never know when what you have will put you at that breaking point. Besides I don't have denari head so If I was gunna mix has and evasion I'd just use this



And to the other guy generally speaking more haste until you cap will be the best answer in a pt situation. There are circumstances where enough acc will effect your hitrate enough to overcome certain amounts of haste and I have no clue if that would be the case in your case.

in the end it all just comes down to preference and what your most comfortable with i guess.. like you said too- if you cant keep shadows up or stay alive, with whatever sets your using/whatever supports you may/may not have.. its obviously something you just cant/shouldnt be doing... and theres really no way to determine what that specific breaking point is.. but i still contend a few eva wont ever be a make or break factor in something of that sort. its either gonna be impossible, or youll be able to pull it off w or w/o the +/- few extra eva.

Really in the end I'd think it would be a good idea to bring a few extra peices. At least that's what I'd plan on doing.

I often do this on rdm/blu soloing. Start out with full -pdt def vit set and slowly scale it down for more haste acc dex str etc till I find a spot where I can do more dmg faster but still take it at a very comfortable rate. Which depending on what I'm doing may be 0 per hit or 0-30. Or sometimes even more.

10 is bigger than 5, did you know that? Therefore OHat > Bonnet. It's really that simple lol.

For pure evasion on NIN I use Emp Pin... The AGI equates to 1.5 additional evasion and whilst people like you might scoff at that and ask if it's worth it, when you're going for a full evasion (or full anything) build, yes, it is worth it.

If you need evasion, why would you intentionally use a piece with less evasion? You're not gearing for an evasion build then. It's down to situation. If you use Turban in an evasion build, or bonnet, simply put it's not an evasion build. Since even if you don't have Ohat, there's no excuse for not having Emp Pin... (which is marginally more eva.)

You can say "Give me an example of a mob" for anything as a throwaway justification for using an inferior item. But at the end of the day, if you're gearing for full evasion, you would not use bonnet.

if the 5 extra evasion isnt doing anything for you... ohat is NOT > ..., and thats what im trying to say. theres nothing out there that the extra 5 eva will make or break it being possible, or impossible to do.. and i disagree about an eva set having to be completely eva or its not an eva set lol... its exactly like you said, down to the situation. say im tanking in full eva with exception of bonnet/homam hands&feet for 10%, or say 25 with spell (taking advantage of the acc and eva still).. ok , its not a normal "full eva" build.. but its surely not a normal tp build either. your gearing for a build that best suits the situation/your needs in any case.

Well, that depends. Because it's pretty damn hard to measure evasion and how close you are to caps. If I was tanking something high level (Like sky gods which I do now and then) on NIN, I'd want about as much evasion as I could get (since with 2 march and haste, elegy & slow shadows shouldn't be a problem.) If that additional evasion is superfluous, then so be it; but it's hard to prove one way or another.