Extention

Eorzea Time
 
 
 
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Extention
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 Phoenix.Kojo
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By Phoenix.Kojo 2010-03-22 21:12:06  
Rojo said:
Please, for the love of everything anyone has ever held dear, the US is on Daylight Savings time now, ergo xDT. Eastern Daylight Time. - EDT Central Daylight Time. - CDT Mountain Daylight Time. - MDT Pacific Daylight Time. - PDT That covers the continental US time zones from east (where that big ball of light comes up) to the west (where it goes down) and they are each 1 successive hour apart. 22:00 would be the 22nd hour of a day. A 'day' begins at midnight, right? Right. You've stared at the game clock and noticed that the day changes one game minute after 23:59 right? Right. Same thing. 24-hour time has no AM or PM. If you see a time referenced as anything more than 12 hours, subtract 12 from it and that's your time in Post Meridiem or PM. Otherwise it's AM. So if you REALLY want to know what time maintenance will now end in CST, even though we're not on Standard Time right now, that would be 11pm or 23:00 CST. It's not that damned difficult. /sigh On the server front, I can only assume character data is stored in some form of SQL environment which would take a good amount of time to transfer millions upon millions of rows of character data from one database to another. Not only would new rows be added to a destination DB, but name checks would have to flag new additions if there's a conflict. While that process would be completely automated in a lengthy SQL script, it would still take hours to run with the sheer amount of data I'd expect. One hiccup and the script borks, the whole thing gets to be re-run. But this is why they stopped character transfers early, so they could test the server merges with a consistent data set. Still, I'd love just 10 minutes with the system to see how its structured... maybe 10 more minutes to make a few small modifications.

 Hades.Neheyiama
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By Hades.Neheyiama 2010-03-22 21:13:32  
Phoenix.Kojo said:
Rojo said:
Please, for the love of everything anyone has ever held dear, the US is on Daylight Savings time now, ergo xDT. Eastern Daylight Time. - EDT Central Daylight Time. - CDT Mountain Daylight Time. - MDT Pacific Daylight Time. - PDT That covers the continental US time zones from east (where that big ball of light comes up) to the west (where it goes down) and they are each 1 successive hour apart. 22:00 would be the 22nd hour of a day. A 'day' begins at midnight, right? Right. You've stared at the game clock and noticed that the day changes one game minute after 23:59 right? Right. Same thing. 24-hour time has no AM or PM. If you see a time referenced as anything more than 12 hours, subtract 12 from it and that's your time in Post Meridiem or PM. Otherwise it's AM. So if you REALLY want to know what time maintenance will now end in CST, even though we're not on Standard Time right now, that would be 11pm or 23:00 CST. It's not that damned difficult. /sigh On the server front, I can only assume character data is stored in some form of SQL environment which would take a good amount of time to transfer millions upon millions of rows of character data from one database to another. Not only would new rows be added to a destination DB, but name checks would have to flag new additions if there's a conflict. While that process would be completely automated in a lengthy SQL script, it would still take hours to run with the sheer amount of data I'd expect. One hiccup and the script borks, the whole thing gets to be re-run. But this is why they stopped character transfers early, so they could test the server merges with a consistent data set. Still, I'd love just 10 minutes with the system to see how its structured... maybe 10 more minutes to make a few small modifications.


MooOOoOoOo
 Carbuncle.Rinomaru
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By Carbuncle.Rinomaru 2010-03-22 21:16:05  
Now u can say "TLDNR"
 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-03-22 21:16:09  
Lakshmi.Jaerik said:
Carbuncle.Rinomaru said:
He looks at things Logically, which isnt in our nature.
I do this stuff for a living, guys. =)
Ha I knew it they paid you off!!!
 Phoenix.Kojo
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By Phoenix.Kojo 2010-03-22 21:19:08  
Carbuncle.Rinomaru said:
Now u can say "TL;DR"
Fix'd.
 Carbuncle.Rinomaru
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By Carbuncle.Rinomaru 2010-03-22 21:20:16  
Phoenix.Kojo said:
Carbuncle.Rinomaru said:
Now u can say "TL;DR"
Fix'd.
143
 Gilgamesh.Andras
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By Gilgamesh.Andras 2010-03-22 21:21:42  
what if u logged on after this maintenence all alone on a server that was supposed to be shut down...
 Phoenix.Kojo
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By Phoenix.Kojo 2010-03-22 21:22:05  
Carbuncle.Rinomaru said:
Phoenix.Kojo said:
Carbuncle.Rinomaru said:
Now u can say "TL;DR"
Fix'd.
143

Eh?
 Carbuncle.Rinomaru
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By Carbuncle.Rinomaru 2010-03-22 21:23:07  
1 4 3
i love you
 Hades.Neheyiama
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By Hades.Neheyiama 2010-03-22 21:23:38  
RED ROBIN..............................YUMMMMMMMMMMMMM
 Phoenix.Kojo
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By Phoenix.Kojo 2010-03-22 21:26:18  
Carbuncle.Rinomaru said:
1 4 3 i love you

In Binary code, I am a 2. That's how I roll.
 Fenrir.Wynnia
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By Fenrir.Wynnia 2010-03-22 21:27:46  
Carbuncle.Rinomaru said:
Now u can say "TLDNR"

Too long, do not resuscitate?
 Carbuncle.Rinomaru
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By Carbuncle.Rinomaru 2010-03-22 21:28:15  
I like Neheyiama siggy, i've seen alot of those taru siggys.

Some with girls butts, some... with... galka...
 Valefor.Shystie
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By Valefor.Shystie 2010-03-22 21:29:09  
Hades.Neheyiama said:
RED ROBIN..............................YUMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Banzai Burger is pure awesomeness!
 Hades.Neheyiama
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By Hades.Neheyiama 2010-03-22 21:29:28  
Carbuncle.Rinomaru said:
I like Neheyiama siggy, i've seen alot of those taru siggys.

Some with girls butts, some... with... galka...
o.o wtf who has my avatar. my friend made this for me~~ who else have it!
 Carbuncle.Rinomaru
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By Carbuncle.Rinomaru 2010-03-22 21:31:00  
I've seen alot like it.
 Lakshmi.Jaerik
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By Lakshmi.Jaerik 2010-03-22 21:33:25  
Rojo said:
On the server front, I can only assume character data is stored in some form of SQL environment which would take a good amount of time to transfer millions upon millions of rows of character data from one database to another. Not only would new rows be added to a destination DB, but name checks would have to flag new additions if there's a conflict. While that process would be completely automated in a lengthy SQL script, it would still take hours to run with the sheer amount of data I'd expect. One hiccup and the script borks, the whole thing gets to be re-run. But this is why they stopped character transfers early, so they could test the server merges with a consistent data set.

Still, I'd love just 10 minutes with the system to see how its structured... maybe 10 more minutes to make a few small modifications.

You have the right of it. However one can assume that if they were SQL, the character names would be a primary key because of the unique constraint. This means you can't just merge tables, you need some special script to attempt the inserts one at a time and resolve any name/key conflicts that come up. (Or do some kind of ON DUPLICATE KEY UPDATE trickery, but why bother?)

However, there's no guarantee they're even using SQL. SQL is everywhere in the web world, but it's often too abstract and generalized for back-end game development, where a tiered or cached NoSQL-like solution is preferred.

On the original Everquest, for example, character records were literally individual flat files on the local game server's filesystem. They were never expected to have to move anywhere else, so why not? Having to issue a SQL update into an enormous table every time a user picked up an item or got exp would have been serious overkill. I wouldn't be surprised if FF11 is something similar.

Regardless of how they're doing it, the game was never developed with the ability to server-merge (or even server transfer) in mind. Whatever they're doing, it's likely a custom-workaround developed in the last few months and never tested in a Live environment before. I've never been hesitant to criticize SE when warranted, but I think we need to give them a pass on this one.
[+]
 Carbuncle.Rinomaru
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By Carbuncle.Rinomaru 2010-03-22 21:34:21  
BBBBBBZZZZZZZZZZZZZZTTT

My brain burnt out after that one.
 Phoenix.Kojo
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By Phoenix.Kojo 2010-03-22 21:35:54  
Lakshmi.Jaerik said:
Regardless of how they're doing it, the game was never developed with the ability to server-merge (or even server transfer) in mind. Whatever they're doing, it's likely a custom-workaround developed in the last few months and never tested in a Live environment before. I've never been hesitant to criticize SE when warranted before, but I think we need to give them a pass on this one.

I thought SE has shut down and merged the older servers before..
 Lakshmi.Jaerik
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By Lakshmi.Jaerik 2010-03-22 21:39:01  
Phoenix.Kojo said:
I thought SE has shut down and merged the older servers before..

Have they? If so, I don't remember it. I could be wrong.
 Carbuncle.Rinomaru
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By Carbuncle.Rinomaru 2010-03-22 21:40:06  
Lakshmi.Jaerik said:
Phoenix.Kojo said:
I thought SE has shut down and merged the older servers before..

Have they? If so, I don't remember it. I could be wrong.
They paying you not to be wrong.
 Pandemonium.Liquidz
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By Pandemonium.Liquidz 2010-03-22 21:40:33  
I thought they did too. I can't tell you I'm1 100% sure but it definitely rings a bell!
 Ramuh.Krizz
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By Ramuh.Krizz 2010-03-22 21:41:37  
Lakshmi.Jaerik said:
Regardless of how they're doing it, the game was never developed with the ability to server-merge (or even server transfer) in mind. Whatever they're doing, it's likely a custom-workaround developed in the last few months and never tested in a Live environment before. I've never been hesitant to criticize SE when warranted before, but I think we need to give them a pass on this one.

Maybe not overall server-merge, but they obviously already had the character transfer system in place. Is it unreasonable to think the merger would be the same thing on a massive scale?

(I understand the time it takes either way though.)
 Phoenix.Kojo
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By Phoenix.Kojo 2010-03-22 21:41:43  
Lakshmi.Jaerik said:
Phoenix.Kojo said:
I thought SE has shut down and merged the older servers before..
Have they? If so, I don't remember it. I could be wrong.

The Beta servers, Chaos, Zande, Golbez, Xdeath, Glasyalabolos, Cactuar, and Hydra.
 Pandemonium.Liquidz
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By Pandemonium.Liquidz 2010-03-22 21:41:55  
Ixion and Kirin merged to Bismarck. Typhon merged to Kujata. They were real servers.
 Bismarck.Patrik
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By Bismarck.Patrik 2010-03-22 21:42:25  
Phoenix.Kojo said:
Lakshmi.Jaerik said:
Regardless of how they're doing it, the game was never developed with the ability to server-merge (or even server transfer) in mind. Whatever they're doing, it's likely a custom-workaround developed in the last few months and never tested in a Live environment before. I've never been hesitant to criticize SE when warranted before, but I think we need to give them a pass on this one.

I thought SE has shut down and merged the older servers before..

i believe they did between 7-8 years ago yes. i know that bismarck was a combination of at least 2 servers and a few other servers merged... wasn't nearly as large scale as this though with more servers being merged and the game being so much more advanced and having more people.

Liquidz beat me to it XD

*double edit* oh hell... a lot of people beat me to it, i'm a slow typer >.>
 Pandemonium.Liquidz
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By Pandemonium.Liquidz 2010-03-22 21:43:07  
Pandemonium.Liquidz said:
Ixion and Kirin merged to Bismarck. Typhon merged to Kujata. They were real servers.


Um they have December 19, 2002 as activation date and January 14, 2003 as merge date (if ffxiclopedia is right). Must not have been a big job lol
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By Rojo 2010-03-22 21:45:08  
Phoenix.Kojo said:
Carbuncle.Rinomaru said:
1 4 3 i love you

In Binary code, I am a 2. That's how I roll.
You mean 10

Cheater.
 Lakshmi.Scrollios
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By Lakshmi.Scrollios 2010-03-22 21:48:28  
meh.

They've had plenty of time to test this in their lab environments. My main complaint with SE is that most of the time, they extend maintenance. perhaps that's just the way it seems...


*another work reference, sorry*


When *we* do migrations, upgrades, etc anything like that, we're held to a SLA agreement via some of the wireless carriers that we support.. if we extend a downtime window, we pay out the nose for it.

Now, I know wireless carriers and SE are not alike, but even still, our subscriber base is twice that of SE... Being Oracle, mySQL or ... postgres.. there must be a method in place that has been practiced several times. Even with nearly 4.5 million subscribers, when we import production data into another environment, a full dump only takes two hours. So, either SE needs to pony up and get some real hardware.. or they need to replace their DBA team.


Main bone to pick, more of an honest question out of curiosity..

Can anyone name any other service that goes down for 12-14 hours every 3-4 months?

/endbitchfest.
 Lakshmi.Jaerik
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By Lakshmi.Jaerik 2010-03-22 21:49:18  
Beta. Gotcha.

If I had to surmise, the server back-ends have changed so much in ~8 years that whatever system they wrote to merge servers back then is likely no longer valid.

They could use their server transfer mechanic, sure, but they would likely have to go one character a time that way. We're talking potentially millions of characters per server, so they'd have to come up with a better way.

Then again, I'm just surmising, here. I've just been through this on the dev side of other games, so I'm taking my best guesses.
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