PLD MDB/MDT- Vs Ultima

lol there's a great reason to idle in enmity. You lose enmity as you take hits or lose shadows, but every strike with the sword will actually, in small increments, increase the enmity gain on the mob.

also the higher the attack on a sword, you will hit on a higher tier. Depending on the mob, I tp better with hauteclaire. Joytoy is good too, i use both alot.

Depends on the Mob, personally the only things i hit with Haute is Khim and Nidhogg if we are low man.

My PLD TP gear for attonement spam.

Sweet gear, but you look like the kind of guy that will appreciate constructive criticism.

For Ultima/Omega that gear set would be awesome, but for HNMs I would change Blitz for T.Ring

It’s been show than PLD will never cap accuracy on HNM, even with sushi and even your kind of gear (outside of Feint). On anything where you aren’t capped T.Ring would be a minimum of 3.5% increase in WS Frequency, whereas blitz (with 22% gear haste, Haste spell, double march) is only 2.3%.

I have my spellcast setup to detect the mob name and swap in some extra acc for really high level stuff, for the likes of cerb where plds should be taking next to no damage i like to throw in a cor for evokers/hunter or just have a bard do ballad2/madrigal, amazing the damage potential of PLD with enough haste and acc, lol

Fair enough, sounds like you have it covered lol.

Yea i said depends on mob, I like to use haute over joytoy on a few more mobs other than nid or khim, never have problems tanking. Atonement spam, i use brutal, blitz, and snipers. Thats a set i don't use often though. haute just pushes that damage barrier to hit over 0.

Do you happen to know the math comparison between TPing in dusk+1 hands vs Homam with uncapped acc? i use Homam atm but it must be a pretty close call.

Hitting for 0 damage is caused by too little Attack, it has nothing to do with weapons base damage changing from Joy to Haut isn't going to affect the number of hit for 0 you see (at least if your sample size is big enough)

Edit: See here for maths showing how attack is the problem, not Base D or STR

@ Fullen

I can work it out.

Basically it’s the same maths as Blitz vs T.ring, but with different numbers.

Dusk +1 will give the same gain 2.3% (double march) 1.8% (single march) [and a ~1.5% increase in attack.]

Homam’s acc will be at least 2% if you are uncapped, but the lower your acc goes, the more gain the Homam’s acc will give.

So if you are only getting single march and you are uncapped then Homam wins.

If you are getting double march and uncapped then it depends in hit rate, for 4 acc to give a 2.3+% gain you need to be BELOW 86% hit rate. So 85% or less = Homam; 85+% = Dusk +1.

(I lowered the turning point to 85% to try and account for the extra attack reducing the number of times you hit for zero)

Thanks a lot for this. Definitive proof you have no idea what you're talking about and that I can ignore you. Also your bit about why idling in enm > idling in acc/haste. Gold.

If you want to actually make your pld better, read what Argettio said and look at Fullen's set. His Gear is pretty much the apex of what you should be trying for short of relic, and tbh something I'll never hit. Personally I tp in Ares because the massive attack bonuses let me hit for >0 more, and the refresh lets me use pcc. Before i get jumped on for that I know, acc > all, but I never seem to have enough mp.

@argettio

Maybe its my ares, but with haute i hit harder than my friends pld who has the same gear as me but uses joyeuse. Seeing as how a higher damage on a weapon raises the threshold. I got ares towards the end of when i did hnms.

@ the DD pld.. lol...

i just eat acc food,... i idle in parade gorget. Im an elvaan and i like to have my mp regulated.

And my enmity idle reason? Go hit a mob with no enmity gear on and then have someone go with you with enmity on, tell me who gets the mob hitting them. I've never not been in a fight on pld and seen negative effects from my gear choices at all lol.

Its great that you tp in what you have since you have DD jobs but theres a reason you wont get the gear above^^. At least you got ares and e body :D. Odin E body im guessing.

I Eat dorado sushi, full sword merits, way more acc gear than you, and I'm still not acc capped. In case you missed what Argettio said; "It’s been show than PLD will never cap accuracy on HNM, even with sushi and even your kind of gear". And that's with Fullen's gear, not your half assed TP Build. You should listen to what he says. Argettio, along with Raen, Frobeus and Vegetto probably know numbers better than anyone else on these boards.

I fixed that for you.

Oh! I know this one! Is it because Speed belt + Dusk+1 hands cost ~55m? Is it? Is it? And ya, sadly it is an Odin E Body, so I don't get the hidden effect Acc+20, Att+20. :(
I don't exactly understand why you think yourself so high and mighty, when the whole reason I started calling you out in the first place was because you somehow think it's impossible to low man Omega/Ultima.

lol Ive done omega with 6.... I was fixing the strat enternius put. We used an on event stun of course but it was an easy fight. ALSO... I'm 8/8 sword merits but I don't really focus on acc unless i know ill be missing the mob way too much for it to matter.

I'm sorry you don't make use of your mp and have to rely on atonement spam, which is great actually I love atonement, to keep tanking.

There is nothing wrong with having a TP set on pld, I have one as well, but it is not my idle. Although it can be treated as one in some conditions.

Camp KA for V belt. Dusk +1 idk what to tell you. Solo rdm and sell trigs you get? I have never seen V belt drop of KA so I'm not sweating it

I get the luxury of a Ghorn bard a lot but its so easy to hit a button and change what you idle in if you see you're mp getting low, PLD is more about adapting to the situation than what gear is better.

What is this threshold you speak off? Did you even read my link? You obviously don't understand the damage equations.

Your attack is the only factor involved in the rate you hit for 0.

No, I really don't understand them. PM me an explanation. Although i do see an error already since STR has a direct relationship with attack, for every 2 you get an attack.\

and yes i agree about the adaptation, i do have tons of pld pieces I don't mention but its an average of what i use for the events/nms i do.

Too lazy to pm:
I accounted for the attack from STR in my estimation.

Ok melee damage a result of a base damage calculation, which is then multiplied by a modified ratio of your Attack and the mobs defence.

The base damage equation is the Base D of the weapon added to your fSTR.

Base D is easy enough to figure out; fSTR is a little trickier as you need the mobs VIT (or at least an approximation).

Assuming a high(ish) level HNM something around 80 VIT is a good estimate (See the link above for the rest of my assumed numbers). The equation is ((your STR - monster VIT)+4)/4. This isn’t perfect when dealing with HNMs as its only truly accurate at high fSTR, but based on our other approximations, its good enough.

So your base damage in this case becomes (35-1) 34 (for joytoy) or (46-1) 45 (for Haute).

Now the base damage is multiplied by your ‘pDif’ which is a function of your attack, the mobs defence and the level difference between you.

I will assume 400 attack for the PLD and 500 defence for the mob, this 400 is the attack you would see in your equipment screen, and includes all the attack from STR, food, buffs etc. Speaking to high end PLDs, 400 is about right for some one using Pizza +1, but obviously most PLD actually use sushi which means I am overestimating by ~30-40 attack. But any way, on with the maths:

Ratio = 400/500 = 0.8
Corrected Ratio = 0.8 - (10*0.05) = 0.3 (This is ‘penalty’ for fighting a mob 10 levels above you)

As our cratio is below 0.5 we use:
pDif max = 0.4 + 1.2 x cRatio
pDif min = -0.5 + 1.2 x cRatio
Where pDif can’t be negative.

pDif Max = 0.76
pDif Min = 0
pDif Average = 0.76/2 = 0.38

So we can now work out the damage for each of the swords:
Max damage per swing:
34*0.76 = 25 (Joy)
45*0.76 = 34 (Haute)

Avg damage:
34*0.38 = 12 (Joy)
45*0.38 = 17 (Haute)

Min damage:
34*0 = 0 (Joy)
45*0 = 0 (Haute)

See the reason you hit for 0 is because you are taking the base damage (positive number) and multiplying by 0 and any thing multiplied by 0 = 0. So you could have a D:1000 weapon, but you would still hit for 0 some of the time if your attack was 400.

So the higher Base D on the Haute will give you a slightly better average damage per hit, but:
* The DoT will still be lower than Joy due to the DA rate
* The distribution of min to max hits will be exactly the same, and therefore both will hit for zero just as often.
* PLDs damage on HNM is nearly 90% from WS, so TP gain is the only factor where joy obviously has the edge.

Sadly there isn’t much that can be done about PLD’s attack, as they are still in need of acc on most HNMs so there is no room to build more aggressively.

That completely makes sense, thank you.

**edited found my *****

NP, hope it helps.

^^ meant to post as siren mordekai not me on unicorn or shredda on siren before i went to unicorn.. lol


Oh one more thing, DMG does raise the threshold and decreases the chance of hitting for 0. I'll use your numbers. Got bored in Calc II today and did this rq.

You have to calculate the MIN

So in your equations:

1.2(0.3) = 0.36

x + 1.2(0.3) = (Calculated Max variable needed to hit for 1)

So taking both weapons I calculated the value of pDif where you do just 1 damage . Assuming that SE rounds down if you hit for 0.9 to 0. If they round up then it just further supports the numbers.

For Joyeuse I calculated 34(0.03)=1

For Hauteclaire I calculated 45(0.023)=1

so taking these variables I solved for

x in x + 0.36 = (minumum number to hit for 1 on both weapons)

I found
Hauteclaire(x) = -0.13
Joyeuse(x) = -0.06

Using interval of [-0.5, 0.4]

Because it is an array, not just min and max, seeing as how you have an average.

there is a 0.37/0.9 ratio of hitting for 0 for Hauteclaire and a 0.44/0.9 ratio of hitting for 0 on Joyeuse.

So percent chance of hitting for 0 using your numbers is

H% = 41%
J% = 49%

Damage has a larger factor in hitting for 0. Although not like I expected, I was wrong to and extent as well. It would seem you are just misinterpreting the variables. Although I am a computer engineer major and we go for an approximate variable range and % of error over an absolute. The only constant in the functions you showed is 1.2, you are not looking at the range of the interval used to measure from min to max.

I see what you have done there, pretty clever way of looking at it.

It all comes down to how many decimal places used in the calculations.

If you are talking about 0.007 pDif that's works back to approximately 3 attack in the example above.

I will be honest and say you are getting close to the limit of my understanding of the damage formulas (and I am not sure if any one would know to that level of detail).

i couldn't be arsed to read all this ***. use your standard tp/haste/recast gear till the 25% then use your mdb gear for for CB tell everyone to gtfo
you should have about 300hp left but no enmity at all....the problem really isn't dealing with eating it..its the lack of enmity afterwards. save all your JA for this.
make sure you can flash and spam a couple of JA after.
No matter how good an ls is ***gets desperate then.
I'll probly get pwnt for not reading lol but meh.
gl mate, its not hard, its all on your shadow counting and get your mdb macro rdy for CB

The one wearing haste/accuracy/attack gear? Not that its even valid to compare hate acquired from hitting a mob.

i don't use a lot of acc i use hast and attack and enmity. but yes