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Rdm/nin HNM tanking advice can i haz it?
Lakshmi.Aeyela
By Lakshmi.Aeyela 2010-04-11 22:07:01
Ramuh.Dasva said: Not sure why you would do any canceling if you going ichi >>ichi though.... as they overwrite each other.
Because cancel was macroed in for ichi for when I hit my ichi macro overwriting a ni. Having two ichi macros was both thinking too outside the box for my brainwaves at the time, and too confusing.
Ramuh.Dasva
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-04-11 22:08:21
How exactly do you maccro cancelling ichi?
Lakshmi.Aeyela
By Lakshmi.Aeyela 2010-04-11 22:12:57
Ramuh.Dasva said: How exactly do you maccro cancelling ichi?
It's a plugin called cancel. It will cancel the buff you specify at the time you macro, if you desire it. For example my utsusemi ichi macro on NIN is:
//exec ninichi.txt (to equip haste / evasion gear)
/ma "Utsusemi: ichi" <me>
/wait 3
//cancel 66
/wait 3
//exec nintp.txt
Something like that (I'm not logged in so I can't quote it verbatim.)
Problem is, RDM casts it a lot quicker. I have /wait 2 and it's sometimes too quick, sometimes it's not, to click a previous utsusemi ichi off. I have to have the cancel macroed in, else when I try casting ichi over a ni, it wouldn't work without me clicking it off. So when I cast an ichi, it still executes the cancel command, even if it's overwriting an ichi (since it treats utsusemi as one buff, and not the two types as two different ones.) Occasionally (not commonly, but enough to be bothersome) it clicks ichi off as it casts; thusly clicking utsusemi off entirely and wasting my ichi timer.
Ramuh.Dasva
サーバ: Ramuh
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-04-11 22:18:29
Hmmm I suppose this is on the windower main site? And would it work with spellcast? Since that thing kinds figures out when you would be done casting on its own and such
Lakshmi.Aeyela
By Lakshmi.Aeyela 2010-04-11 22:22:11
Ramuh.Dasva said: Hmmm I suppose this is on the windower main site? And would it work with spellcast? Since that thing kinds figures out when you would be done casting on its own and such
It should do. I have cancel lines on a few spellcast jobs and haven't had any conflicts yet.
Ramuh.Dasva
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-04-11 22:25:28
Well I meant more like does spellcast have something in it to cancel buffs like right before they wear since it can time better than using /waits. I would think they would by now for things like ni>ichi, sneak, stoneskin or some such. Like whatever the last part of casting is cancel buff command or something in it
Lakshmi.Aeyela
By Lakshmi.Aeyela 2010-04-11 22:26:27
Ramuh.Dasva said: Well I meant more like does spellcast have something in it to cancel buffs like right before they wear since it can time better than using /waits. I would think they would by now for things like ni>ichi, sneak, stoneskin or some such. Like whatever the last part of casting is cancel buff command or something in it
Probably, but I haven't looked into it. I only really use spellcast on BLM and PLD nowadays.
Ramuh.Dasva
サーバ: Ramuh
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Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-04-11 22:30:27
Lol yeah I hear you. The only things I have bothered writing things for are blm and blu. Blu only because I use it alot for blood tanking in campaign so litterally use like 70 peices of gear between haste/def/vit mix set curing set, HB set, magic hammer, waltz set, mp drain kiss set, dmg sets...
サーバ: Hades
Game: FFXI
Posts: 305
By Hades.Excelior 2010-04-12 00:14:34
If pld has a hard time sharing hate with rdm you need to fire the pld :x No reason both tanks cant be capped. PLDs should have a cure cheat macro to pull off you if flash isnt off, if they don't they're doing it wrong.
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Bahamut.Dionikes
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 325
By Bahamut.Dionikes 2010-04-12 12:06:47
Nice, ya in my blank macro spaces I added phalanx bind and my cure cheat macro. I just put the gear in there without the cure 4 in case my Co tank needs it. Again thank you guys. I'm not sure ill Try the cancel plugin, ill probably just do manually.
Question though, I know its a no brainer, but at what % are you guys cancelling your ni for ichi, assuming I don't go ichi to ichi at first.
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 670
By Asura.Izilder 2010-04-12 12:46:55
Here;s a few things i do that may give you some ideas
General flow of most fights for me now is
1. Start with x2 cure 4 cheats = very fast and dirty way to "copy" a Plds spiked hate at start of a fight ( actually the VE i get is comparable to x4 Flash ..) - Also if you ever lose a lot of hate from LONG terror touch etc just pop a x2 cure and you will be back on track.
2. Chain Spell Dispel or Sleep II (mob dependant)- if you want to cap CE faster or you have just eaten a hate reset move.
3. dispel > blind > dispel = the only spells you ever need. (my enmity is +40 total)
If sleep resists are not going to be an issue with the mob your against you can use
sleep II > Blind > Dispel > Blind > Sleep > Blind > Dispel > Blind > Dispel > Blind > sleep II.
4. Build decent magic set and Physical reduction set. Also bar sets if want ks99 Tiamat Ouryu etc.
5. use Pescatora food ! or Carbonara if your poor @@
6. i use spellcast now vs windower macros as you can do so much more and be alot more efficient - invest time in spellcast.
7. i now prefer my 100 % non interrupt build on ichi and ni set vs phy reduction items etc - you cant ever die now unless its from a big 1 shot type move and your mages are crap on cures
8. also make sure you cap your shadow timers - done correctly its possible with just x1 march and x1 haste which should leave you room in the party for a Corsair's Magus and Evoker's roll (instead of 2nd useless Brd)
Good Luck and have fun :)
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サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4554
By Bahamut.Raenryong 2010-04-12 13:07:03
Quote: Question though, I know its a no brainer, but at what % are you guys cancelling your ni for ichi, assuming I don't go ichi to ichi at first.
~40% iirc. 60% on any job without Fast Cast.
This is entirely from random memory! It became just a habit/instinctual thing though for me after awhile so may not be accurate.
サーバ: Asura
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By Asura.Despayn 2010-04-12 13:11:49
@Izilder; This actually a very general question (and I'm not attacking you at all), but where would you prioritize Blind II? According to Deadwing, its something every RDM should have if they're built strictly for tanking.
My general opinion on tanking is that if you need Spellcast macros to tank, then you honestly can't tank. I give Deadwing ***for this all the time, and he agrees he'd be horrid if he didn't have spellcast macros. <- My opinion.
サーバ: Bahamut
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By Bahamut.Raenryong 2010-04-12 13:14:01
Blind II is meh. Equal enmity to Blind I, costs 26 more MP, twice the recast time, 3/2 the cast time and useless almost everywhere.
Bahamut.Zorander
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2104
By Bahamut.Zorander 2010-04-12 13:19:07
Dio is a noob and shouldn't tanking anything higher than the dunes..
And I have a killer Rdm/Nin tanking guide somewhere I'll see if I can find it and PM it to you..
Quetzalcoatl.Sectumsempra
サーバ: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3987
By Quetzalcoatl.Sectumsempra 2010-04-12 13:38:58
Quote: 7. i now prefer my 100 % non interrupt build on ichi and ni set vs phy reduction items etc - you cant ever die now unless its from a big 1 shot type move and your mages are crap on cures
8. also make sure you cap your shadow timers - done correctly its possible with just x1 march and x1 haste which should leave you room in the party for a Corsair's Magus and Evoker's roll (instead of 2nd useless Brd)
Can you elaborate on the gear for 7/8? O.o sounds wicked.
サーバ: Asura
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Posts: 485
By Asura.Despayn 2010-04-12 13:40:11
Bahamut.Zorander said: Dio is a noob and shouldn't tanking anything higher than the dunes..
And I have a killer Rdm/Nin tanking guide somewhere I'll see if I can find it and PM it to you.. Dio said: Ok so im new to tanking HNM's on any job, and since rdm is my only one til pld goes from 60-75, i'd love some advice.
?
He said in his first *** sentence in the OP that he's NEW TO TANKING HNMS ON ANY JOB. Way to not be constructive.
He admitted he's new. Being able to admit that and willing to ASK FOR ADVICE =/= noob.
Get out of here with your ***.
@Raen; Thanks for clearing that up. RDM/NIN intrigues me very much, but requires too much trouble to be effective. I'd rather stick to my NIN/DRK D:
Bahamut.Dionikes
サーバ: Bahamut
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Posts: 325
By Bahamut.Dionikes 2010-04-12 14:25:38
Oh noez, yes i am completely new at tanking on rdm/nin, and i hope i have let everyone know how much i appreciate their advice. Zorander is on my friends list and was TOTALLY joking, (i hope lol), he shoulda said j/k or somethin lol, hope it doesnt start a fight cause of that.
Ok, had a quick question about hexerei cape vs lamia mantle +1. Which would suite me better given my gear set, i.e full coral +1 and mermans rings and earrings, also lamia mantle +1, and working on periqua assault for resolute belt. relic hands also oops lol.
Oh boy, i must be a noobcakes, so if sleep 1 and 2 dont actually land on the mob, they generate zero hate?
I got confused from what Izilder was saying, i am at 332 enfeeb skill, ( no nash or alt cape yet, dirty ultima), so not sure A. if most of the things i am taking are even sleepable, and B. if they are will it land. That being said, i was under the impression that they generate enmity regardless, amidoingitwrong?
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サーバ: Asura
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Posts: 670
By Asura.Izilder 2010-04-12 14:36:48
@Despayn - Yes Raen gave the answer to that one on Blind, also i used windower macros on rdm/nin for a LONG arse time ask Deadwing (my rdm/nin partner in crime) - of course you can tank with them but the ***you are able to do with spell-cast 100 % BREAKS rdm/nin in so many different ways its funny - im NEVER going back to windower macros @@
@Sectum - read above for more clues to how! But yes rdm/nin can basically have a 14 sec ichi that's totally non-interrupt
using gears/merits/spells to hit over 103 % total spell interrupt and FC/haste gears with 1 bard. Our Rdm tanks in the LS have been using this method with very impressive results.
@Dion - no i meant if your later going to want to sleep the NM don't keep spamming sleep stick to Dispel - Also even if a spell does not "land" it still has the same hate values :)
Also for magic def i use resentment cape but yes you may use lamia+1 or an alt when you cant use resentment, i would spell cast those in on certain zones.
another reason i love corsair in tank party in-place of a 2nd brd as it helps to further "break" rdm tank now with a consistent magic def (+20 to 25 on luck not counting all your innate MDB you have)
and of course it will help your actual build macro cap 50 % easier and chuck more MDB/hp gears on etc
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Fenrir.Krazyrs
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 716
By Fenrir.Krazyrs 2010-04-12 14:44:08
Bahamut.Dionikes said: Ok, had a quick question about hexerei cape vs lamia mantle 1. Which would suite me better given my gear set, i.e full coral 1 and mermans rings and earrings, also lamia mantle 1, and working on periqua assault for resolute belt. relic hands also oops lol.
depends where your fighting
i use Resentment Cape for SEA (100% usage) and if SKY isnt under current nations control
Quote: Hmmm I suppose this is on the windower main site? And would it work with spellcast? Since that thing kinds figures out when you would be done casting on its own and such can be used for lots of things, take this example
Code
<if Spell="Sneak" BuffActive="Sneak" SpellTargetType="Self">
<action type="command" when="midcast">cancel 71</action>
<action type="midcastdelay" delay="1.8" />
</if>
<if spell="Utsusemi: Ichi" BuffActive="Copy Image">
<action type="midcastdelay" delay="3.0" />
<action type="Command" when="midcast">cancel 66</action>
</if>
<elseif Spell="Stoneskin" BuffActive="Stoneskin">
<action type="command" when="midcast">cancel 37</action>
<action type="midcastdelay" delay="4.8" />
</elseif>
<elseif Spell="Blink" BuffActive="Blink">
<action type="command" when="midcast">cancel 36</action>
<action type="midcastdelay" delay="4.5" />
</elseif>
Bahamut.Dionikes
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 325
By Bahamut.Dionikes 2010-04-12 19:10:28
Ok, heres a side question. is stacking MDT gear better for taking something like a firaga III than say a fire resist set? I think i read somewhere stacking enough of that element can cause the spell to hit for 0? Or hit for much less.
I ask because i am also lvling pld and i have used 10 stacks of coral fragments to craft a coral+1 set, which my pld can wear also, i suppose its more of an inventory thing than anything, rdm is packed, and pld im sure will be close as well.
So, MDT > element resist?
Diabolos.Renavi
サーバ: Diabolos
Game: FFXI
Posts: 238
By Diabolos.Renavi 2010-04-12 19:22:26
103% Spell Interrupt on RDM without Aquaveil. =o
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 485
By Asura.Despayn 2010-04-12 19:28:46
Bahamut.Dionikes said: So, MDT > element resist?
Yes. Once you're done stacking MDT (caps @25 I believe..?), then you can worry about resists, which quite honestly, for most of the mobs you'll tank, a ele resist isn't necessary.
Fire resist helps on Tiamat and Sarameya, the latter having tanked as NIN/DRK a while back.
Ramuh.Dasva
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-04-12 19:31:37
Bahamut.Dionikes said: Ok, heres a side question. is stacking MDT gear better for taking something like a firaga III than say a fire resist set? I think i read somewhere stacking enough of that element can cause the spell to hit for 0? Or hit for much less. I ask because i am also lvling pld and i have used 10 stacks of coral fragments to craft a coral 1 set, which my pld can wear also, i suppose its more of an inventory thing than anything, rdm is packed, and pld im sure will be close as well. So, MDT > element resist? Depends on what you fighting. You wont get it to hit for 0 with just resist gear. But with enough you can force a 1/2 or 1/4 or even 1/8 resist most the time. Seeing as MDT caps at 50% and you get 27 of that from shellra V... But combine that resist with shell and phalanx and yeah you can get to 0
That being said if you don't have enough you will just give yourself a bit of a better chance to resist and still take full dmg most the time. How much you need depends on the mob and I don't know off the top of my head. Generally anything hard though will need 250-300+ I think
Sylph.Sindri
By Sylph.Sindri 2010-04-12 19:41:50
I don't believe it doesn't cap... 103%?
Bahamut.Dionikes
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 325
By Bahamut.Dionikes 2010-04-12 19:52:42
is it possible without the nash head and magnetic earring and feet?
eremite +1's x2 = 50%
af+1 body = 12%
aquaveil = 25%
druid's rope = 10%
1 merits = 1%
willpower torque = 5%
103 no?
That being said, how difficult is it to get aquaveil up mid fight? I mean, with this set you could get it up 100% lol, but maybe at the expense of getting your face beat. Now, if you get the feet and head you can do it w/o aquaveil. Just need some gil and an ultima. Or is it better to not worry about this set and just go fc/haste
Bahamut.Dionikes
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 325
By Bahamut.Dionikes 2010-04-12 19:57:43
hmmmm, wiki says aquaveil is 20% roughly, any tests to show its 25% for sure? i guess you can slap the gear on and get hit durring a spell and find out ha ha. Also, it says its a 5 minute durration max, obviously depending on enhancing lvl, does composure lengthen that?
I think if your mid fight and your co tank goes down, keeping up aquaveil might not be viable, of course, you only need it up once for 5 minutes til he's back up anyways lol. Feet and head and i suppose you dont need the spell at all :)
Bahamut.Dionikes
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 325
By Bahamut.Dionikes 2010-04-12 20:03:16
derrr, triple post, i was just thinking, most times if not all, you have a co tank anyways. so if your co tank, in my case, a pld goes down, then casting aquaveil one time for that 5 minutes and having an un interuptable ichi is very nice til he's back up and ready to help. So maybe its worth it just for emergencies?
Ramuh.Dasva
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-04-12 22:04:12
Composure aquaveil last so long but if I am using 90% of the time I just put it back up when other buffs wear off.
Anyways there are other gear slots to use. Hell rdm can get 118% in gear alone. Technically you could get to 110% w/o aquaviel or a 2nd wand so you can try to get a shield block lol.
Oh yeah solitaire cape says wut up
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4554
By Bahamut.Raenryong 2010-04-12 22:22:16
I've never found an 100% interruption build useful personally. It's really easy to cycle ichi/ni on rdm and you'll find inventory space is very limited as is!
Ok so im new to tanking HNM's on any job, and since rdm is my only one til pld goes from 60-75, i'd love some advice.
So far i have a basic idea on what to cast, gear, and so on. However, gearing up and making macros is far from actually doing it.
I am going to post my macro's and gear sets, meaning this will be a slightly long read, so stop now if you dont care.
The reason for this is i joined a new HNM shell and have been asked to co tank HNMs on my rdm/nin, so please bare with my ignorance and just give constructive tips or just feel free to rip my gear apart lol.
I have windower, but do not use spellcast, someone is going to help me set it up soon hopefully as im clueless there.
My macro setup looks like this
control 1-10
1- refresh me, 2- blank, 3- haste me, 4- cure III me, 5- Stoneskin, 6- cure IV me, 7- convert, 8- sleep1, 9 sleep2, 0- dispel.
ALT 1-10 is
1- blind, 2- ichi, 3- Ni, 4 blank, 5- slow II, 6- phys dmg taken set, 7- idle set, 8- mag dmg taken set, 9- blank, 0- blank
At first i thought to make blind, sleep 1/2 and dispel very close to each other, and i still might change that, but sleep 1/2 are in the same spot as all my other rdm macros, so im familiar with it, so is ichi/Ni, so again, familiar.
Blind is in alt1 because i figure ill be casting that at least 6-7 times per minute, more if i can, but hopefully at least that many times.
As you can see, im missing several macro slots, so please let me know if im missing some important spells, i thought about aquaveil in there, not sure though.
Ok, gear
for blind, sleep 1/2, dispel (cure III and 4 a bit different but not much) i cast in this
main/sub - Macuahuitl +1 x2
range
ammo - there is a ammo slot with enmity+1, cant remember what its called.
Head - af+1 head (when spell cast is done ill start in af+1 and end spell in turban)
neck - harmonious torque
ear1 - loquacious
ear2 - eris'+1
body - relic (same with head, when spell cast is done, ill be starting in this and ending in goliard)
hands - dusk gloves, (fairly clueless as to what else is out there that would benefit me)
ring1 - mermaid's ring
ring2 - another clueles slot for this, any tips are appreciated
back - cerb mantle
waist - swift belt (doubtfull the 3 enm from warwolf will outweigh 4% haste, however blinds recast isnt long at all, so maybe warwolf for blind, and swift for sleep 1/2 and dispel?) not sure
legs - another duh slot, havent made my ASA legs yet, so might go haste here, if not just an idle piece?
feet - dusk
i have +4 enmity merits for when pld hits 75, if im doing that wrong let me know, other slot is 4/4 crit hit, i dont have a spell interuption set, and hadnt planned on making one due to inventory (have satchel and all other avail, just have 7 75's)
That is my blind, sleep 1/2, and dispel macro list, it gives me +16 enmity, 18% haste (when spellcast is working), and 21% fast cast, gear wise.
For ichi/ni you can pretty much see my gear, will be all the FC and haste i got.
For phys dmg taken set, i have darksteel body, hands and legs+1, umbra, jelly, terras. I figure tp isnt that important, so if im in a O shit moment and need to actually use this set, wont be the end of the world to swap to terras.
for MDT and MDB i will be using this
ranged- lamia kaman+1
head - coral visor+1
neck - errm, any ideas?
ear 1/2 - mermans
body - coral scale mail +1
hands - coral finger gaunt +1 ( or i can use relic hands)
ring 1/2 merman's
back - lamia mantle +1
waist - dont have anything here yet, ideas are appreciated
legs - coral cuisses +1 or crimson legs
feet - coral greaves +1
that puts me at -25% MDT and an additional 6 MDB, any more ideas also appreciated.
Ok, few questions. How often are you able to actually use composure and rebuff mid fight, cause i was thinking maybe when shaddows just go up pop it, fresh/haste and back off, but thinking and actual execution are different things.
Aquaveil, is it worth it w/o any gear/merits to back it up, i mean recasting it past the first time it wears.
Stoneskin, when its broken, should i recast it mid fight? with fast cast gear its not horrible, and im hoping with a co tank ill have time, but ya, hope schmope.
Cure IV cheat set. I have been looking at a similar set ill use on pld, +hp, cure, back to normal for some quick hate, however from what i understand, thats mostly a pld thing, enmity wise we dont need to do that because of slp 1 and 2/dispel. Also more inventory than i have i think, but ya, maybt its worth it.
idle set, i will probably wont be idling a lot when tanking, i plan on blinking like a christmas tree, but ill still probably slap on PDT and refresh/regen pieces and chill.
I had a few other questions, but now im forgetting them. Please bare in mind im very new at this, but am willing to go the extra mile to make it work, or eat dirt trying :)
I also need more practice as far as cancelling Ni for ichi. I know that sounds dumb, but with so much fast cast, and after playing nin, thf, mnk for so many years, its hard to get used to. What % are you usually cancelling your last Ni for ichi at? It seems like with just casting ichi with no shaddows up, it was firing at around 45%, maybe a bit more.
However, it seems like thats waaaay too late to cancel my last Ni shaddow. Optimal idea is to have the mob take the last one, but im going to say i think im in for a lot of double attack. % you guys are canceling at?
Ill be co tanking mainly Khimi, faff/nid, behemoth, turtle, stuff like that, im very new, so please, tips hints tricks, gear suggestions are greatly greatly needed.
Thank you if you read this whole wall O text, sorry if your eyes have fallen out.
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