Rdm/nin HNM Tanking Advice Can I Haz It?

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フォーラム » FFXI » Jobs » Red Mage » Rdm/nin HNM tanking advice can i haz it?
Rdm/nin HNM tanking advice can i haz it?
 Lakshmi.Aeyela
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By Lakshmi.Aeyela 2010-04-11 22:07:01  
Ramuh.Dasva said:
Not sure why you would do any canceling if you going ichi >>ichi though.... as they overwrite each other.

Because cancel was macroed in for ichi for when I hit my ichi macro overwriting a ni. Having two ichi macros was both thinking too outside the box for my brainwaves at the time, and too confusing.
 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-04-11 22:08:21  
How exactly do you maccro cancelling ichi?
 Lakshmi.Aeyela
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By Lakshmi.Aeyela 2010-04-11 22:12:57  
Ramuh.Dasva said:
How exactly do you maccro cancelling ichi?

It's a plugin called cancel. It will cancel the buff you specify at the time you macro, if you desire it. For example my utsusemi ichi macro on NIN is:

//exec ninichi.txt (to equip haste / evasion gear)
/ma "Utsusemi: ichi" <me>
/wait 3
//cancel 66
/wait 3
//exec nintp.txt

Something like that (I'm not logged in so I can't quote it verbatim.)

Problem is, RDM casts it a lot quicker. I have /wait 2 and it's sometimes too quick, sometimes it's not, to click a previous utsusemi ichi off. I have to have the cancel macroed in, else when I try casting ichi over a ni, it wouldn't work without me clicking it off. So when I cast an ichi, it still executes the cancel command, even if it's overwriting an ichi (since it treats utsusemi as one buff, and not the two types as two different ones.) Occasionally (not commonly, but enough to be bothersome) it clicks ichi off as it casts; thusly clicking utsusemi off entirely and wasting my ichi timer.
 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-04-11 22:18:29  
Hmmm I suppose this is on the windower main site? And would it work with spellcast? Since that thing kinds figures out when you would be done casting on its own and such
 Lakshmi.Aeyela
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By Lakshmi.Aeyela 2010-04-11 22:22:11  
Ramuh.Dasva said:
Hmmm I suppose this is on the windower main site? And would it work with spellcast? Since that thing kinds figures out when you would be done casting on its own and such

It should do. I have cancel lines on a few spellcast jobs and haven't had any conflicts yet.
 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-04-11 22:25:28  
Well I meant more like does spellcast have something in it to cancel buffs like right before they wear since it can time better than using /waits. I would think they would by now for things like ni>ichi, sneak, stoneskin or some such. Like whatever the last part of casting is cancel buff command or something in it
 Lakshmi.Aeyela
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By Lakshmi.Aeyela 2010-04-11 22:26:27  
Ramuh.Dasva said:
Well I meant more like does spellcast have something in it to cancel buffs like right before they wear since it can time better than using /waits. I would think they would by now for things like ni>ichi, sneak, stoneskin or some such. Like whatever the last part of casting is cancel buff command or something in it

Probably, but I haven't looked into it. I only really use spellcast on BLM and PLD nowadays.
 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-04-11 22:30:27  
Lol yeah I hear you. The only things I have bothered writing things for are blm and blu. Blu only because I use it alot for blood tanking in campaign so litterally use like 70 peices of gear between haste/def/vit mix set curing set, HB set, magic hammer, waltz set, mp drain kiss set, dmg sets...
 Hades.Excelior
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By Hades.Excelior 2010-04-12 00:14:34  
If pld has a hard time sharing hate with rdm you need to fire the pld :x No reason both tanks cant be capped. PLDs should have a cure cheat macro to pull off you if flash isnt off, if they don't they're doing it wrong.
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 Bahamut.Dionikes
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By Bahamut.Dionikes 2010-04-12 12:06:47  
Nice, ya in my blank macro spaces I added phalanx bind and my cure cheat macro. I just put the gear in there without the cure 4 in case my Co tank needs it. Again thank you guys. I'm not sure ill Try the cancel plugin, ill probably just do manually.

Question though, I know its a no brainer, but at what % are you guys cancelling your ni for ichi, assuming I don't go ichi to ichi at first.
 Asura.Izilder
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By Asura.Izilder 2010-04-12 12:46:55  
Here;s a few things i do that may give you some ideas

General flow of most fights for me now is

1. Start with x2 cure 4 cheats = very fast and dirty way to "copy" a Plds spiked hate at start of a fight ( actually the VE i get is comparable to x4 Flash ..) - Also if you ever lose a lot of hate from LONG terror touch etc just pop a x2 cure and you will be back on track.

2. Chain Spell Dispel or Sleep II (mob dependant)- if you want to cap CE faster or you have just eaten a hate reset move.

3. dispel > blind > dispel = the only spells you ever need. (my enmity is +40 total)

If sleep resists are not going to be an issue with the mob your against you can use

sleep II > Blind > Dispel > Blind > Sleep > Blind > Dispel > Blind > Dispel > Blind > sleep II.

4. Build decent magic set and Physical reduction set. Also bar sets if want ks99 Tiamat Ouryu etc.

5. use Pescatora food ! or Carbonara if your poor @@

6. i use spellcast now vs windower macros as you can do so much more and be alot more efficient - invest time in spellcast.

7. i now prefer my 100 % non interrupt build on ichi and ni set vs phy reduction items etc - you cant ever die now unless its from a big 1 shot type move and your mages are crap on cures

8. also make sure you cap your shadow timers - done correctly its possible with just x1 march and x1 haste which should leave you room in the party for a Corsair's Magus and Evoker's roll (instead of 2nd useless Brd)


Good Luck and have fun :)
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 Bahamut.Raenryong
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By Bahamut.Raenryong 2010-04-12 13:07:03  
Quote:
Question though, I know its a no brainer, but at what % are you guys cancelling your ni for ichi, assuming I don't go ichi to ichi at first.

~40% iirc. 60% on any job without Fast Cast.

This is entirely from random memory! It became just a habit/instinctual thing though for me after awhile so may not be accurate.
 Asura.Despayn
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By Asura.Despayn 2010-04-12 13:11:49  
@Izilder; This actually a very general question (and I'm not attacking you at all), but where would you prioritize Blind II? According to Deadwing, its something every RDM should have if they're built strictly for tanking.

My general opinion on tanking is that if you need Spellcast macros to tank, then you honestly can't tank. I give Deadwing ***for this all the time, and he agrees he'd be horrid if he didn't have spellcast macros. <- My opinion.
 Bahamut.Raenryong
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By Bahamut.Raenryong 2010-04-12 13:14:01  
Blind II is meh. Equal enmity to Blind I, costs 26 more MP, twice the recast time, 3/2 the cast time and useless almost everywhere.
 Bahamut.Zorander
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By Bahamut.Zorander 2010-04-12 13:19:07  
Dio is a noob and shouldn't tanking anything higher than the dunes..

And I have a killer Rdm/Nin tanking guide somewhere I'll see if I can find it and PM it to you..
 Quetzalcoatl.Sectumsempra
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By Quetzalcoatl.Sectumsempra 2010-04-12 13:38:58  
Quote:
7. i now prefer my 100 % non interrupt build on ichi and ni set vs phy reduction items etc - you cant ever die now unless its from a big 1 shot type move and your mages are crap on cures

8. also make sure you cap your shadow timers - done correctly its possible with just x1 march and x1 haste which should leave you room in the party for a Corsair's Magus and Evoker's roll (instead of 2nd useless Brd)

Can you elaborate on the gear for 7/8? O.o sounds wicked.
 Asura.Despayn
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By Asura.Despayn 2010-04-12 13:40:11  
Bahamut.Zorander said:
Dio is a noob and shouldn't tanking anything higher than the dunes..

And I have a killer Rdm/Nin tanking guide somewhere I'll see if I can find it and PM it to you..
Dio said:
Ok so im new to tanking HNM's on any job, and since rdm is my only one til pld goes from 60-75, i'd love some advice.

?

He said in his first *** sentence in the OP that he's NEW TO TANKING HNMS ON ANY JOB. Way to not be constructive.

He admitted he's new. Being able to admit that and willing to ASK FOR ADVICE =/= noob.

Get out of here with your ***.

@Raen; Thanks for clearing that up. RDM/NIN intrigues me very much, but requires too much trouble to be effective. I'd rather stick to my NIN/DRK D:
 Bahamut.Dionikes
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By Bahamut.Dionikes 2010-04-12 14:25:38  
Oh noez, yes i am completely new at tanking on rdm/nin, and i hope i have let everyone know how much i appreciate their advice. Zorander is on my friends list and was TOTALLY joking, (i hope lol), he shoulda said j/k or somethin lol, hope it doesnt start a fight cause of that.

Ok, had a quick question about hexerei cape vs lamia mantle +1. Which would suite me better given my gear set, i.e full coral +1 and mermans rings and earrings, also lamia mantle +1, and working on periqua assault for resolute belt. relic hands also oops lol.

Oh boy, i must be a noobcakes, so if sleep 1 and 2 dont actually land on the mob, they generate zero hate?

I got confused from what Izilder was saying, i am at 332 enfeeb skill, ( no nash or alt cape yet, dirty ultima), so not sure A. if most of the things i am taking are even sleepable, and B. if they are will it land. That being said, i was under the impression that they generate enmity regardless, amidoingitwrong?
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 Asura.Izilder
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By Asura.Izilder 2010-04-12 14:36:48  
@Despayn - Yes Raen gave the answer to that one on Blind, also i used windower macros on rdm/nin for a LONG arse time ask Deadwing (my rdm/nin partner in crime) - of course you can tank with them but the ***you are able to do with spell-cast 100 % BREAKS rdm/nin in so many different ways its funny - im NEVER going back to windower macros @@

@Sectum - read above for more clues to how! But yes rdm/nin can basically have a 14 sec ichi that's totally non-interrupt


using gears/merits/spells to hit over 103 % total spell interrupt and FC/haste gears with 1 bard. Our Rdm tanks in the LS have been using this method with very impressive results.


@Dion - no i meant if your later going to want to sleep the NM don't keep spamming sleep stick to Dispel - Also even if a spell does not "land" it still has the same hate values :)

Also for magic def i use resentment cape but yes you may use lamia+1 or an alt when you cant use resentment, i would spell cast those in on certain zones.

another reason i love corsair in tank party in-place of a 2nd brd as it helps to further "break" rdm tank now with a consistent magic def (+20 to 25 on luck not counting all your innate MDB you have)

and of course it will help your actual build macro cap 50 % easier and chuck more MDB/hp gears on etc






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 Fenrir.Krazyrs
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By Fenrir.Krazyrs 2010-04-12 14:44:08  
Bahamut.Dionikes said:
Ok, had a quick question about hexerei cape vs lamia mantle 1. Which would suite me better given my gear set, i.e full coral 1 and mermans rings and earrings, also lamia mantle 1, and working on periqua assault for resolute belt. relic hands also oops lol.

depends where your fighting
i use Resentment Cape for SEA (100% usage) and if SKY isnt under current nations control

Quote:
Hmmm I suppose this is on the windower main site? And would it work with spellcast? Since that thing kinds figures out when you would be done casting on its own and such
can be used for lots of things, take this example
Code

<if Spell="Sneak" BuffActive="Sneak" SpellTargetType="Self">
<action type="command" when="midcast">cancel 71</action>
<action type="midcastdelay" delay="1.8" />
</if>
<if spell="Utsusemi: Ichi" BuffActive="Copy Image">
<action type="midcastdelay" delay="3.0" />
<action type="Command" when="midcast">cancel 66</action>
</if>
<elseif Spell="Stoneskin" BuffActive="Stoneskin">
<action type="command" when="midcast">cancel 37</action>
<action type="midcastdelay" delay="4.8" />
</elseif>
<elseif Spell="Blink" BuffActive="Blink">
<action type="command" when="midcast">cancel 36</action>
<action type="midcastdelay" delay="4.5" />
</elseif>
 Bahamut.Dionikes
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By Bahamut.Dionikes 2010-04-12 19:10:28  
Ok, heres a side question. is stacking MDT gear better for taking something like a firaga III than say a fire resist set? I think i read somewhere stacking enough of that element can cause the spell to hit for 0? Or hit for much less.

I ask because i am also lvling pld and i have used 10 stacks of coral fragments to craft a coral+1 set, which my pld can wear also, i suppose its more of an inventory thing than anything, rdm is packed, and pld im sure will be close as well.

So, MDT > element resist?
 Diabolos.Renavi
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By Diabolos.Renavi 2010-04-12 19:22:26  
103% Spell Interrupt on RDM without Aquaveil. =o

 Asura.Despayn
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By Asura.Despayn 2010-04-12 19:28:46  
Bahamut.Dionikes said:
So, MDT > element resist?

Yes. Once you're done stacking MDT (caps @25 I believe..?), then you can worry about resists, which quite honestly, for most of the mobs you'll tank, a ele resist isn't necessary.

Fire resist helps on Tiamat and Sarameya, the latter having tanked as NIN/DRK a while back.
 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-04-12 19:31:37  
Bahamut.Dionikes said:
Ok, heres a side question. is stacking MDT gear better for taking something like a firaga III than say a fire resist set? I think i read somewhere stacking enough of that element can cause the spell to hit for 0? Or hit for much less. I ask because i am also lvling pld and i have used 10 stacks of coral fragments to craft a coral 1 set, which my pld can wear also, i suppose its more of an inventory thing than anything, rdm is packed, and pld im sure will be close as well. So, MDT > element resist?
Depends on what you fighting. You wont get it to hit for 0 with just resist gear. But with enough you can force a 1/2 or 1/4 or even 1/8 resist most the time. Seeing as MDT caps at 50% and you get 27 of that from shellra V... But combine that resist with shell and phalanx and yeah you can get to 0

That being said if you don't have enough you will just give yourself a bit of a better chance to resist and still take full dmg most the time. How much you need depends on the mob and I don't know off the top of my head. Generally anything hard though will need 250-300+ I think
 Sylph.Sindri
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By Sylph.Sindri 2010-04-12 19:41:50  
I don't believe it doesn't cap... 103%?
 Bahamut.Dionikes
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By Bahamut.Dionikes 2010-04-12 19:52:42  
is it possible without the nash head and magnetic earring and feet?

eremite +1's x2 = 50%
af+1 body = 12%
aquaveil = 25%
druid's rope = 10%
1 merits = 1%
willpower torque = 5%

103 no?

That being said, how difficult is it to get aquaveil up mid fight? I mean, with this set you could get it up 100% lol, but maybe at the expense of getting your face beat. Now, if you get the feet and head you can do it w/o aquaveil. Just need some gil and an ultima. Or is it better to not worry about this set and just go fc/haste




 Bahamut.Dionikes
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By Bahamut.Dionikes 2010-04-12 19:57:43  
hmmmm, wiki says aquaveil is 20% roughly, any tests to show its 25% for sure? i guess you can slap the gear on and get hit durring a spell and find out ha ha. Also, it says its a 5 minute durration max, obviously depending on enhancing lvl, does composure lengthen that?

I think if your mid fight and your co tank goes down, keeping up aquaveil might not be viable, of course, you only need it up once for 5 minutes til he's back up anyways lol. Feet and head and i suppose you dont need the spell at all :)
 Bahamut.Dionikes
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By Bahamut.Dionikes 2010-04-12 20:03:16  
derrr, triple post, i was just thinking, most times if not all, you have a co tank anyways. so if your co tank, in my case, a pld goes down, then casting aquaveil one time for that 5 minutes and having an un interuptable ichi is very nice til he's back up and ready to help. So maybe its worth it just for emergencies?
 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-04-12 22:04:12  
Composure aquaveil last so long but if I am using 90% of the time I just put it back up when other buffs wear off.

Anyways there are other gear slots to use. Hell rdm can get 118% in gear alone. Technically you could get to 110% w/o aquaviel or a 2nd wand so you can try to get a shield block lol.

Oh yeah solitaire cape says wut up
 Bahamut.Raenryong
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By Bahamut.Raenryong 2010-04-12 22:22:16  
I've never found an 100% interruption build useful personally. It's really easy to cycle ichi/ni on rdm and you'll find inventory space is very limited as is!