Nyzul Isle WHM Vs RDM

Why do I like rdm? Because we usually took 2-3 blus 1-2 sams and another random DD for the rest of the group.

Refresh for the blus wins by itself. Having 6-7 real refresh (no matter what sub is not as good as 2 refresh) by myself on rdm not too shabby. Agressively nuking/draining/aspiring stuff throughout to speed stuff up not all that bad either.

And really cure potency pretty much never meant a damn thing in nyzle isle. You can can cure for 20% more per cure but I will have alot more mp.

Being a rdm myself I never really understood the obsession with needing a rdm for nyzul isle. The amount of times I've actually needed to use convert to save a run is so minimal that I don't see rdm having a huge advantage over whm. The only time in recently memory it was ever an issue is if the brd or cor had no idea how to play their job.

I think the biggest reason is if you have a lackluster whm who wastes mp you have a much higher risk of failing the run. Where a below average rdm can still skirt by because they have something like convert to fall back on. It's sad that ppl have to assume someone doesn't know how to play their job, but it's true.

My old static has rdm and whm. Our set up for boss floors was rdm, whm, thf, mnk, drk, pld. We split up into 2 groups of 3 for most floors. We had very few issues clearing floors and killing bosses.

I personally did WHM/SCH in our static we had for about a year. It's amazing how well esuna and auspice help and sublimation + penury from the subjob help immensely.

Devotion also helps out and Martyr for that out of MP panic cure.

I don't know either work out just fine I'm sure ^^

But Erik, we took Zedge ...

I skimmed over posts rq so forgive me if I repeat anything.

WHM's do cure better than RDM's. But w/ nyzul isle as an example, people tend to go w/ RDM because its versatility. Nyzul isle is full of random, versatility does better when put up against random.

I have no idea what you people are doing wrong, but my WHM/SCH has Dispel.

(We also have Haste, Cure 1-4, and Curaga 1-2 + 3 AND 4!!!!)

EDIT: To add to the argument, a healer is only as good as their tanks/DDs. If the tanks/DDs are retards, can't count to 3 or 4 for shadows, come unprepared, or have piss poor equipment (Level 14 rings anyone?), then no healer, no matter how good they are, will be able to keep up.

As for RDM vs. WHM, old argument is old. If a WHM is unable to keep up with a RDM nowadays, with all the options available to them, then they just suck as a player. That's not the job's fault. A good WHM can keep up with a good RDM. A shitty WHM can't keep up with a good RDM, or even a decent SMN/WHM for that matter. Blame the person, not the job.

It seems you're missing a cure.

No. You don't. You have it on a 2 minute timer unless you are curing in Addendum: Black the whole time. If you are doing that, you are doing it wrong.

If I had the choice, I wouldn't take a WHM to Nyzul, no matter what sub they use. RDM and SCH are superior choices in this particular area because resting is not usually an option. SCH can get away with relying on Sublimation alone because they can get 4 ticks on it and they have access to Accession+Stoneskin and Phalanx, which is by far more MP efficient than curing the damage that SS+Phalanx mitigates.

RDMs who don't idle in Vermy when they lack other refresh pieces (D.Chapeau/Dalmatica/Morrigan's Robe) need to gtfo.

I`ve done Nyzul Isle as rdm/whm and whm/sch and personally i find it easier as whm just because of the healing options u have availible.

I cant recall the last time i ever needed to "Dispel" anything in Nyzul. And 9/10 nyzul shouts i see want a brd, let them do it

Just get both and go to town. Have the whm main heal as much as possible and have the rdm Haste/Refresh and then let the rdm explore and pull stuff..and then if the whm needs help let the Rdm take over, always worked well for me.

I always preferred whm to rdm in nyzul. Esuna is greater than gawd (F-ing psycheflayer floors). Sublimation, hi ethers and elixirs from the box when you enter, and lamp floors (I was the official sit-at-the-lamp-wait-to-go-up girl! great time to /heal) should make up for any mp issues you should ever have (not to mention extra refresh things like nobles/clerics, balrahns ring and sanction). I always had a brd too but I never expected ballad 70% of the time since he was busy pulling...

I helped a friend with nyzul yesterday where they already had a whm and brd..so I went rdm and we did absolutely fine but if I had a DD job I probably would have been on it instead.

Ive never been on a nyzul floor where stun was ever detrimental. We've have general bad luck ofcourse but a rdm/drk is not going to make or break you. Ofcourse that depends on your group. My perma just consisted of an awesome brd and zergers and we just had the whole routine down.

Bosses were the easy part, the only time they got interesting was when our brd 2houred on floor100..otherwise they all die within 2mins...make your DDs buy fanatics drinks. Its the floors that are kill all 5 chariots or the psychflayer bosses (which are 10x easier with misery+esuna) or numerous dahaks that suck.

Just do whatever you or your people are comfortable on. Nyzul is one of the few things I personally am like "need to be on whm!"

I could say I've traveled 7 floors in a run with 5 people and I was the whm..which would be true but Im sure lots of people have done the same with a rdm as well!

Draugar, flayers, dahaks, poroggo, imps, hecteyes, and ghosts all call for a dispeller off the top of my head. BRD should indeed be handling dispels if you have one, but this isn't always the case. Bear in mind that 9/10 shouts are for boss floors; climbing groups tend to just take what they can get.
QFT

this is exactly what i do in nyzul on rdm. on all floors i always have the next mob ready to kill. ive never had to rest mp in nyzul as rdm and i think i can recall maybe 4 or 5 runs out of probably 200 or more where i used convert more than once. sure refresh pieces are the sex, but if you are idling long enough for them to make a big difference in your mp pool then you are doing something wrong. And no mater where you are, nyzul or otherwise, there is no substitute in support for a good whm or sch.

When I run with people I know, we usually have both jobs. I think we only failed to complete 5 floors once during our climb to 100?

WHM/SCH (Healing/Buffs)
BLU/NIN (DD/Dispel) Me D:
RDM/BLM (Buffs/Debuffs/Sleeps/Nukes)
SAM/NIN (DD)
...and then we had 2 random people filling the last two slots (sam/war/drg/drk/whatever)

This varies for me. When I was climbing from 1-100, I went with a group of BLU/SAM/SAM/THF/BRD/RDM. BRD switched to WHM on boss floors, and we never had a problem. It's obvious RDM works and with a WHM? Things are nice. But the WHM wasn't totally necessary, and honestly we usually had plenty of MP remaining after upper floor runs.

However, recently I've been helping a friend climb again, and we've had most of a perma together. DRK/BLU/SAM/RDM/SCH/random pickup DD, with me (the BLU) switching to BRD for boss floors. The SCH is actually really, really useful. With a nuke setup I've seen our SCH tear apart flan floors. The extra heals, the AoE debuffs (AoE Erase or -nas), SS and Phalanx for bosses, Sleep 1/2... honestly I'd say SCH does RDM's job and then some with the exception of Refresh. With SCH + RDM doing their jobs properly I can't really imagine a loss except in the case of really, really bad luck.

tl;dr - SCH <-> RDM > WHM.

I almost always bring whm to nyzul isle. My main reasons are healing gear available to whm (hi there blessed and aristocrat's coat), afflatus solace, and regen 3. Esuna is a damn nice bonus too. I can still crowd control just fine with repose, sleep, and flash, and I rarely need gravity for a nyzul run. The reality is that most pickup groups have careless DD who won't do a think to prevent their damage taken and most of your MP is going to get spent on cures anyway, so I'd rather bring the job that cures faster, for less enmity, and gets higher cure numbers (and preempts some cures by keeping regen 3 up). I think the biggest thing you're missing if you don't bring a rdm is slow 2. It's nice, but I'd rather have faster curing and less enmity with more healing spells available.

Meh sure rdm doesn't cure for as much on there cures. But they also don't need to. They have acess to alot more mp. 3 refresh from spell. Up to 3 from gear. 1 from sanction. (pretty much never brough brd and only for short time brought cor). Not to mention aspir and while you already in dark arts throwing out a drain for some dmg or a cheap nuke which helps ALOT on flan.

If all that is still somehow not enough even with all the running around you do then theres always convert. Not that I usually need it. I can count the number of times I've used convert or an elixer or something on 1 hand.

And well a whm sure as hell wasn't going to be refreshing our 2+ blus we always took.

Used to trio Nyzul RDM+BRD+DRK/NIN. Even the bosses. It's not hard enough to be worried about what healer you have.

All other arguments are pretty much instantly invalidated by the above.

Nyzul isn't hard as long as your IQ larger than your shoe size (although I can be a ***)