Super Soloing!

This~

Despite what you might think Lorzy and I aren't sucking Yuna's ***, we're just saying there isn't enough information to determine who's right, and it doesn't help that there's a giant misunderstanding going on.

Anyway it's 7am and I have class at 10, so goodnight~

lorzy already had mentioned a situation where people use that for suzaku

actually i mentioned an instance of completely draining a mob's mp, would like to see more info about mp drain affecting frequency, sounds interesting

night ninny


anyways if you can answer my question about how often (time wise) it casts silencega for when you dont hit it, and for when you hit it with and without twilight dagger. if there is no difference, i will gladly admidt im wrong. that my friend is the question you have dodged twice now.

jesus christ. ill continue because of lorzy i guess. what you guys arent understanding, and dont make me quote her. i will if you keep denying it, but its really late now. the thing we are comparing is spell casting vs tp move usage. such as... as she stated, more tp moves = more spellcasting, or it casts more, the more tp moves it uses. so that would suggest... not necessarily exactly this but a proportion of: if it does 3 tp moves, it will do 1 spell, if it does 5 tp moves, it will do 2 spells, in the same count of "general actions". more tp moves = more spells. higher tp frequency = higher spell frequency, ive already proven theres is no specific pattern during the fight with winds (except at the end, but i stated that like 7hrs ago). if you understood simple graphing, you'd realize 2 variables, one independant, and one dependent of the other, as you suggest, do not require a 3rd variable at all. ie, more tp moves increases spell frequency. not once did you mention time until i listed the moves and proved you wrong in 2 different ways. now its something about casting delay, which would be a 3rd variable, irrelevent to tp move. we are talking about frequency, QUANTITY in relation to each other. k now that ive defined every word and walked through it as slow as possible, either you understand or you dont.

now to prove once and for all hopefully that time is irrelevent. i could have turned and stood there for 7hrs, and it would never get tp or do tp move, but it would cast 800 silencegas in a row. what the hell would that prove. NOTHING, why? because its completely indepedent of everything except time. IE, spell casting is unrelated to tp move gain or usage on this monster.

i will literally time every silencega tomorrow, with and without twilight knife. it wont be windower so you have to deal with that. i cant write down times of every tp move or ill probably die or screw up shadows, i mean the mob is easy but its not going to wait while im writing stuf.

No its good to discuss but it is also pointless to talk to someone that dont listen. lol =P

if you are saying the mob casts less BECAUSE it stops to use tp move, which i hope isnt the case, yes that is obvious. there will be a 3 sec delay for each tp move where it cant cast a spell. if i kraken clubbed it, it would hardly cast as it would be eating my face with tp moves. that is game mechanics as a mob cant do 2 things at the same time.

edit: it would still stop to cast even between tp moves with 300 tp actually. mobs cast frequently with 12 people hitting them

that's really all im asking for, time between silencegas, i would do it myself, but i believe it would be better for you to see that he does indeed not spam it.

true, kinda, the mob will force cast eventually. but not what i was explaining.

will time silencegas turned around and hitting it tomorrow. goodnight

how exactly are you proving that "if a mob tps more often, it will cast more often" is wrong? i understand it won't work in cases like where you're not feeding any tp at all, but that has nothing to do with a supposed general trend.

what yuna is saying is that the more tp moves a mob uses in a fight, the more overall spellcasting will occur. in order to have an actual relation, you need, as you said, at least one independent variable. then to make a relation, you need to change the independent variable and see how the supposed dependent variable changes accordingly.

what i was saying was that you need varying amounts of tp feed to change your independent variable of tp frequency to notice any correlation to spellcasting frequency. and maybe i misunderstood your testing, because i didn't really understand what the punching was for; i thought you meant you were trying not to kill it. you said it was because of tp gain, and i'm really not sure what that accomplishes in regards to tp gain.

Ignoring monsters with odd mechanics, like the T1 Dvergr NM, I don't think that monsters cast more when they TP more. They seem to cast at a relatively regular rate regardless of whether you're facing it or turning around.

There may be some relationship between casting frequency and monster HP%, or it may just be a constant rate. Casting frequency may even go down at low HP% because a monster can't be readying a TP move and casting at once.

lorzy, it was never about its "tp gain", it was about its tp move frequency. you cant keep changing the variables to stop from being wrong. the independant variable is the "tp move frequency", the tp moves i listed in order and quantity. the dependant variable, according to the argument, is the spell casting, ie silencegas. however ill even go by time just to prove that is completely irrelevent. time was never mentioned until i listed all the tp moves, tp gain itself is irrelevent too, until low hp, as mobs can do tp moves at 100 or 150 or 300 tp, or sit on 300 tp at high hp. even if it always used at 100, or 300 or anything it would increase the amount of silencegas, and it did not. thats what you arent getting.

also what byrth said. theres no doubt some mobs have weird mechanics, such as always casting a spell after a tp move, like durinn or w/e(hellsnap -> spell, and wont cast if hellsnap doesnt connect). my list of tp moves, and varying amounts of tp moves and different tp moves between spell casting already proved my original point right, but i will take it even further right now.

if im wrong about shnm's functioning in this fashion then i'll gladly shut my mouth on that subject, i really just want her to see that this nm really doesnt "spam" silencega rendering shadows useless.

your argument was that it had a pattern of tp moves, then that it was a pattern with silencega with the tp moves, then that it uses spells more often if it uses tp moves more often, then twilight knife lowers spell frequency, then .... just stick to point. now its about your own definition of "spam". dont keep changing what you are arguing, im done after this lol.

no i stand by what i said, spell frequency with zirnitra is affected in direct correlation to it's TP moves, the more often it TP's the more often it casts to keep the average ratio of spell to tp at the same level. and dont forget this started because you said it spams it when i said it really only casts every minute or so. nothing has changed.

Scanning through this thread to get caught up, the only thing that caught my eye was


Also, the last few pages didn't have enough pics.

Carry on.

oh yeah also you said it was doing reaving winds regardless of tp gain.

i also stand by this

k here we go, started on iceday, ended on lightningsday. i did not ws once until mentioned later. i kept shadows up and removed silence immediately.

0:00 claimed, with step, facing away. (using fists as weapon) the moster did not hit me even once, and i did not hit it once.
1:20 silencega
2:50 silencega
4:20 silencega
5:55 silencega
7:10 silencega
8:32 silencega

noticing a pattern of 1:20 to 1:30 or so, of silencegas, with 0 tp gain, and also no reaving winds with no tp gain, i started punching.

9:20 reaving wind
9:45 bloody beak
10:00 silencega
10:25 reaving wind
10:55 reaving wind
11:27 silencega
11:40 reaving wind
12:20 reaving wind
13:15 reaving wind
13:35 silencega
14:30 storm wing
15:05 silencega
15:15 reaving wind
----> drew me in, got knocked back a mile and was writing down times lol. and reaving winded at 15:30
17:00 bloody beak
17:10 silencega

17:30 noticing the same frequency of spells to tp moves used while feeding mob tp, i changed to twilight knife main hand, kila+2 (evasion) offhand.

17:50 bloody beak
18:20 silencega
18:25 reaving wind
18:55 storm wing
19:35 bloody beak
20:00 silencega
20:15 reaving wind
21:15 silencega
21:32 reaving wind
21:45 calam wind => begins pattern of reaving(x) -> calam(x)
22:45 reaving wind
23:00 calam wind
23:10 silencega
23:50 reaving wind
24:05 calam wind
24:40 silencega
25:05 warped wall
25:20 reaving wind
26:35 calam wind

unaware if the mob rages at 30 (not specified), i proceeded to kill it with 2 self SCs and 1 solo ws. also was getting difficult to be accurate on times while running from calam wind.

ok things proven by this.

monster has a general 1:15 to 1:30 duration between spells, regardless of it gaining tp, or which weapon i use, fists or twilight

again there is no pattern to either its tp moves in succession pre-low hp, nor is there a pattern between silencega + various tp move. he prefers to use reaving wind more than any other tp move, that is all.

reaving wind is tp dependent, has nothing to do with time or silencega.

are we there yet?

That is entirely what I would have predicted.

yep, i understand game mechanics afterall!

Why are people arguing about zirnitra lol? I didn't realize this NM was still camped. Anyway, I killed this guy a bunch in the past to get his bullet. It's 100% obvious reaving wind is tp dependent as we kited it and nuked it to death with 2-3 RDMs @75. He never used reaving wind without feeding him tp first (with nukes). Silencega was obviously on a timer because I was rdm/drk and I just stunned it. I knew when it was about to cast because of how long it had been since the previous cast. This works the same for pretty much every NM anyway; I'm not sure why this is even being discussed.

thank you, now i should back track and bring up what started this:











would it be safe to say we came to the same answer now?




as for this and posts there after i stand corrected. glad you can see the answer to the root of the problem though.

you think its obvious helel, but clearly i still had to prove basic game mechanics (ironic?). yes yuna, my comment about that was you saying "hardly ever uses" and "once every minute". hardly ever uses means once a minute? really? so my response was repeating your comment with sarcasm. i knew this mob did spell once a min or so, as almost all monsters do (unless they have a faster timer), as helel pointed out, apparently we needed 5 pages to prove it was unrelated to both tp gain and tp move use though.

i soloed it easily twice as dnc/whm and twice as dnc/nin. there is no doubt and no argument that /nin is the better overall soloing dnc subjob, that was never a question. i merely explained the reasons i subbed whm in the first place. in both cases i won easily, so neither is "wrong" and neither was "omg so much better". if i redid it again (ill never fight this piece of ***again), i would just go dnc/nin though, as i stated, hardly anything it does is dangerous, i wouldnt even use utsusemi, as it does silencega and aoe tp moves often.

you stand corrected on a few other things too. twilight knife and aspir-related effects lowering spell casting frequency and reaving wind being tp independant.

amusing how i said posts there after but you have a desire to add more to it even though i had already stated so, superiority complex perhaps?. i originally explained why /nin would be a more viable sj for him, and your shitty attitude did not help your case. your statement about it hardly uses it every minute implies that i was incorrect, not sarcasm. and im sorry but getting silenced once every minute to minute and a half does not render shadows useless, having it hit you 20% of the time is endorsing it's TP usage as well as hindering yours.


edit: to put it simply, you were relying on an extra cure, an unnecessary cure at the cost of making him tp more frequent, which is what i was trying to explain from the very start.

ok so you were wrong about everything except that /nin is a better overall subjob for dnc, which everyone knows and no one is refuting. every other post about soloing i was dnc/nin. however, if i can solo a mob easily without using shihei, i guess i should use shihei anyways .... wait a second.

Okay, everyone was misunderstood. Your writing styles are too similar to hate each other, so lets all be friends.

more like taking unnecessary risks that is un-needed.

edit: iirc i have only been wrong about anything that regards to changing his spell cast frequency, please try not to be-little me when i can point out multiple things that you were either un-aware of or incorrect.

:O o byrth can you take a look at my oirandori vs kamome topic? that has been lacking some attention from mathematicians