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St. Louis, Missouri Vs. The Police: Heaven or Hell, Duel 1! Let's rock!
By fonewear 2014-08-15 08:44:50
Talking about it now on CNN. Going to reveal the officer who shot this guy.
By fonewear 2014-08-15 08:52:18
Guy that did it is named Darren Wilson.
Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-08-15 09:27:51
Fenrir.Candlejack said: »Talking about it now on CNN. Going to reveal the officer who shot this guy. Good. How much does anyone wanna bet the cop's both crooked and a Kard Karrying member in good standing of the Klan? Seeing as how the Ferguson police chief's a racist, and probably a Grand Dragon, it wouldn't surprise me if the rest of the lot were as well.
By fonewear 2014-08-15 09:33:06
When they released the name of the officer this was my reaction:
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Carbuncle.Lynxblade
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By Carbuncle.Lynxblade 2014-08-15 10:04:42
Darren wilson, a 6 year veteran with no prior incidents, and the kid was a suspect in a strong arm robbery,
Im on the Policemans side on this 1
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Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2014-08-15 10:22:05
Carbuncle.Lynxblade said: »Darren wilson, a 6 year veteran with no prior incidents, and the kid was a suspect in a strong arm robbery,
Im on the Policemans side on this 1 I'm not.
Being a suspect for anything does not deserve being executed in the street.
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By fonewear 2014-08-15 10:23:49
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Carbuncle.Lynxblade
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By Carbuncle.Lynxblade 2014-08-15 10:31:17
Well it seems to me I can either believe the Police Officer or the 18 year old Kid believed to be part of a robbery.
Honestly I don't really care, This is just another story by the Media to divide the country in two.
Not to make a Joker Meme joke her, but....
18 year old black kid on the street kills another 18 year old black kid on the street, no 1 really does much, because it happens so often that its just accepted as something that happens normally in today's society.
BUT, a Police officer kills a 18 year old Black kid everyone looses their minds!
Seriously, where are all these protesters when Innocent people get killed by Drug dealers or w/e?
By Artemicion 2014-08-15 10:41:21
Carbuncle.Lynxblade said: »Well it seems to me I can either believe the Police Officer or the 18 year old Kid believed to be part of a robbery.
Honestly I don't really care, This is just another story by the Media to divide the country in two.
Not to make a Joker Meme joke her, but....
18 year old black kid on the street kills another 18 year old black kid on the street, no 1 really does much, because it happens so often that its just accepted as something that happens normally in today's society.
BUT, a Police officer kills a 18 year old Black kid everyone looses their minds!
Seriously, where are all these protesters when Innocent people get killed by Drug dealers or w/e?
It's one thing when *** kill ***.
But it's a whole different can of worms when trained police officers, essentially paragons of our justice system that hold a purpose to provide and protect citizens end up killing an unarmed kid; prior history and suspect labels are irrelevant if he was killed while unarmed. There's no excuse for that at all.
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-08-15 10:42:54
Quote: Authorities named Darren Wilson as the police officer who killed an unarmed black teenager in Ferguson, Missouri last weekend, saying the officer had a good record and the incident came in the aftermath of a robbery in which the teen was a suspect.
Wilson, who shot and killed 18-year-old Michael Brown on Saturday afternoon outside an apartment complex, had served six years on the force and had a good record, Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson said at a news conference Friday.
Jackson said there had been a report of a robbery of cigars in a convenience store in the area a few minutes before Wilson encountered Brown walking down the street near an apartment complex. The robbery suspect had been described as a black male wearing a white T-shirt, according to police records Jackson released Friday.
The deadly interaction was swift: Jackson said Wilson encountered Brown at 12:01 p.m. and had shot him by 12:04 p.m.
About two dozen residents gathered at the news briefing by Jackson, and some were outraged that police suggested Brown was a robbery suspect when he was killed.
"I think it was the right thing to do releasing the officer's name, but for them to say this is an armed robbery makes me think this is a cover up," said Ferguson resident Milton Jackson, 37. Missouri names officer in shooting of unarmed teen, cites robbery
By Artemicion 2014-08-15 10:45:14
Validation from moderated and outside sources of that so-called citation would be necessary to hold any merit IMO.
Police far too often use their assumed credibility to get them out of any trouble they get themselves in; and I doubt this is any exception.
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Carbuncle.Lynxblade
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By Carbuncle.Lynxblade 2014-08-15 10:50:29
Aren't Police officers trained too shoot if they suspect that the person may be carrying a weapon? especially if the police officer has told you to put your hands up where he can see them and you haven't?
Like what if he reached into his pocket and acted like he was going to pull out a weapon or something? not sure if this is actually the case just guessing that cops may have that right?
When A cop tells you to put your hands up, or put your hands where they can see them, you definitely should.
If I was a Cop (thank god I'm not) and I was pulling over someone on the side of the road , and I told them to put their hands on the steering wheel and they didn't, and they started reaching in the glove department or their jacket or w/e, I'm not sure what I would do.
Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-08-15 10:53:18
Carbuncle.Lynxblade said: »Well it seems to me I can either believe the Police Officer or the 18 year old Kid believed to be part of a robbery.
Honestly I don't really care, This is just another story by the Media to divide the country in two.
Not to make a Joker Meme joke her, but....
18 year old black kid on the street kills another 18 year old black kid on the street, no 1 really does much, because it happens so often that its just accepted as something that happens normally in today's society.
BUT, a Police officer kills a 18 year old Black kid everyone looses their minds!
Seriously, where are all these protesters when Innocent people get killed by Drug dealers or w/e?
It's one thing when *** kill ***.
But it's a whole different can of worms when trained police officers, essentially paragons of our justice system that hold a purpose to provide and protect citizens end up killing an unarmed kid; prior history and suspect labels are irrelevant if he was killed while unarmed. There's no excuse for that at all. It's not always *** killing ***... it's usually *** killing innocent people... stray bullets flying all over the place...
The thing you are right about is that we should not be afraid of the police. Also there should be an easy way to hold them accountable for their actions.
There doesn't seem to be any reason that this kid was shot... idc if he did go for the officers gun. He had no weapon and at the time it seems like the officer was no longer in danger of losing his weapon.
By camaroz 2014-08-15 10:53:20
Clearly if Michael was holding his hands up and then shot to death, pretty safe to assume he didn't have a weapon
By Artemicion 2014-08-15 10:57:12
Carbuncle.Lynxblade said: »Aren't Police officers trained too shoot if they suspect that the person may be carrying a weapon? especially if the police officer has told you to put your hands up where he can see them and you haven't?
I'm no expert on police protocol, but I don't think they're green lit to shoot anybody unless there's an identified, tangible threat to their being. Suspecting someone of holding a weapon simply isn't good enough, which is why you hear old stories where people get shot for carrying obscure objects.
Carbuncle.Lynxblade said: »Like what if he reached into his pocket and acted like he was going to pull out a weapon or something? not sure if this is actually the case just guessing that cops may have that right?
If he indeed pulled out a weapon on the cops, then sure. Problem is, the kid was in fact, unarmed.
Carbuncle.Lynxblade said: »When A cop tells you to put your hands up, or put your hands where they can see them, you definitely should.
Agreed, but alas, we don't quite know the circumstance behind what happened and why, and taking the cops' word for it simply isn't good enough for me.
Carbuncle.Lynxblade said: »If I was a Cop (thank god I'm not) and I was pulling over someone on the side of the road , and I told them to put their hands on the steering wheel and they didn't, and they started reaching in the glove department or their jacket or w/e, I'm not sure what I would do.
I won't lie, cops have very dangerous, high stress jobs that rely often on instinct and decisive action. However, far too often are we seeing cases where they unnecessarily use lethal force for situations where it was not warranted; often ending in the unnecessary death of someone; innocent or not.
That's not to say accidents don't happen, but what is frequently missing in these cases is accountability.
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VIP
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-08-15 11:01:27
Carbuncle.Lynxblade said: »Aren't Police officers trained too shoot if they suspect that the person may be carrying a weapon? especially if the police officer has told you to put your hands up where he can see them and you haven't?
Like what if he reached into his pocket and acted like he was going to pull out a weapon or something? not sure if this is actually the case just guessing that cops may have that right?
When A cop tells you to put your hands up, or put your hands where they can see them, you definitely should.
If I was a Cop (thank god I'm not) and I was pulling over someone on the side of the road , and I told them to put their hands on the steering wheel and they didn't, and they started reaching in the glove department or their jacket or w/e, I'm not sure what I would do.
Leave out the myriad of ways to deal with that situation, but officers are not trained to shoot if they think someone has a weapon, they are trained to employ less than lethal disarmament tactics including pepper spray and tasers. The use of lethal force should be an absolute last resort only to stop a credible threat to life and limb. Police have been shooting people for disobeying or protecting themselves from overzealous police.
Hopefully this kid's death can serve a purpose in driving citizens and lawmakers to make some serious changes in the way law enforcement is trained and equipped as well as building some accountability into the system.
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Fenrir.Atheryn
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By Fenrir.Atheryn 2014-08-15 11:04:13
The robbery suspect had been described as a black male wearing a white T-shirt
I'm surprised the cops were able to narrow that down to just one person.
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-08-15 11:08:37
I'm hearing on the radio that there is footage of the suspect robbing a store minutes before he was shot.
God help you if your name is Darren Wilson today (it's not uncommon) or you have a family member with that name. Rioters will no doubt continue to be animals.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-08-15 11:11:33
The robbery suspect had been described as a black male wearing a white T-shirt
I'm surprised the cops were able to narrow that down to just one person.
If you're familiar with an area, it wouldn't be too hard to narrow down a list of suspects, but it seems pretty strange that the person they were hauling in just happened to be a mentally challenged teen with a colorful history. There are a startling amount of challenged people who have been coerced into confessions being found recently.
Carbuncle.Lynxblade
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By Carbuncle.Lynxblade 2014-08-15 11:11:42
I'm too tired to argue anymore Art, I was just saying that You said there is "No excuse" for a cop to kill someone unarmed , and I'm saying that under a few certain pressure situations there It could be warranted.
I should have just looked at this forum and decided not to say anything, but I did, and Now I've started an argument that I don't want to finish.
There's this Video game called Heavy Rain,(not a huge fan of the game btw) and at 1 point in the game you're a Police officer and you hold up some guy, the guy starts reaching into his pocket , and at that point you have the choice whether to shoot him or wait it out. I chose to shoot him, and after you shoot him ( or don't shoot him) you find out he was just pulling out a bible....
Just saying we don't (and probably never will) know the whole story, and I've decided to take the policeman's side on this story.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-08-15 11:19:28
Carbuncle.Lynxblade said: »Just saying we don't (and probably never will) know the whole story, and I've decided to take the policeman's side on this story.
Too many people have the attention span of a small bird and quickly bounce from one unresolved issue to the next. There will be a conclusion in this case, you just have to look for it a few months down the media cycle. I'd wager they find that excessive force was used and the officer either loses his job or gets some kind of slap on the wrist. The problem is that you and the millions of people like you who reflexively defend the police are mostly to blame for their overreach.
Police have been given the benefit of the doubt in these kinds of situations for far too long, why should a trained and armed civil servant not be held to a higher standard of accountability than teenager? "We'll never know exactly what happened, so we'll perpetuate the stigma that creates this kind of situation" These kinds of incidents will continue and escalate as long as the citizens in these areas see the same conclusions over and over, a young man is dead for no reason and the police use force and intimidation on objectors and reporters.
Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-08-15 11:27:18
Carbuncle.Lynxblade said: »Just saying we don't (and probably never will) know the whole story, and I've decided to take the policeman's side on this story.
Too many people have the attention span of a small bird and quickly bounce from one unresolved issue to the next. There will be a conclusion in this case, you just have to look for it a few months down the media cycle. I'd wager they find that excessive force was used and the officer either loses his job or gets some kind of slap on the wrist. The problem is that you and the millions of people like you who reflexively defend the police are mostly to blame for their overreach.
Police have been given the benefit of the doubt in these kinds of situations for far too long, why should a trained and armed civil servant not be held to a higher standard of accountability than teenager? "We'll never know exactly what happened, so we'll perpetuate the stigma that creates this kind of situation" These kinds of incidents will continue and escalate as long as the citizens in these areas see the same conclusions over and over, a young man is dead for no reason and the police use force and intimidation on objectors and reporters.
I agree, and I should know. I'm one of those who has been doing it. Call this case my own personal "line in the sand" on this issue, though. There is no way of looking at this incident that justifies having shot what is essentially an unarmed child.* Even if he had struggled in the police car and was running away, and even if a firearm was accidentally or purposefully discharged in the police car, he was unarmed and no immediate threat to anyone at the time of shooting.
This is the kind of thing with the potential to turn into an even bigger nationwide movement than it is as the poor and minorities who see themselves or their brothers or children mirrored in this boy lash out at the increasingly militarized and martial police forces of the country.
I don't think the police are entirely to blame. But as I've said before, for there to be any improvement, they're the ones who are going to have to give ground. Otherwise you're looking at a police state that we heavily condemn in other countries around the globe.
*Yes, yes, he was "18" and technically an adult, but let's face it. He hadn't even started college or an adult job, and likely hadn't even faced significant adult-level adversity yet. His judgment and response to pressure is that of a child.
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Carbuncle.Lynxblade
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By Carbuncle.Lynxblade 2014-08-15 11:28:16
With all the problems in this world right now.... a few people that may or may not be innocent being killed by a police officer is a very very very small thing to be worried about.
News media: "Hey guys a unarmed kid was killed by a Police officer! Lets take all the attention away from whats happening In Gaza, Iraq asking us for aid, and North Korea launching Missiles, So we can focus on this, that will take all the attention away from those things that are way way way way way more important".
Sadly it does.....
Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-08-15 11:30:17
Carbuncle.Lynxblade said: »With all the problems in this world right now.... a few people that may or may not be innocent* being killed by a police officer is a very very very small thing to be worried about.
News media: "Hey guys a unarmed kid was killed by a Police officer! Lets take all the attention away from whats happening In Gaza, Iraq asking us for aid, and North Korea launching Missiles, So we can focus on this, that will take all the attention away from those things that are way way way way way more important".
Sadly it does.....
So you suggest we focus on other countries' militaries killing unarmed civilians while we let our own levels of government do the same thing?
*He's clearly guilty of some level of something, but it doesn't matter one whit, because there's ***-all chance of anything of which he was guilty justifying the use of lethal force.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-08-15 11:30:23
Carbuncle.Lynxblade said: »With all the problems in this world right now.... a few people that may or may not be innocent being killed by a police officer is a very very very small thing to be worried about.
News media: "Hey guys a unarmed kid was killed by a Police officer! Lets take all the attention away from whats happening In Gaza, Iraq asking us for aid, and North Korea launching Missiles, So we can focus on this, that will take all the attention away from those things that are way way way way way more important".
Sadly it does.....
Are you familiar with George Orwell? Might want to enlighten yourself.
I almost pulled a Godwin, Orwell will suffice for this argument.
By fonewear 2014-08-15 11:32:29
I think it is a government conspiracy to get me to buy AAA batteries.
By Artemicion 2014-08-15 11:33:17
Carbuncle.Lynxblade said: »I'm too tired to argue anymore Art, I was just saying that You said there is "No excuse" for a cop to kill someone unarmed , and I'm saying that under a few certain pressure situations there It could be warranted.
The thing is, killing a person when there's no tangible threat to the officer is never warranted. Period.
It doesn't matter if there's suspicions or are caught in the act of committing a crime, you simply don't blast away someone that is not posing a threat to you or anyone else.
Carbuncle.Lynxblade said: »There's this Video game called Heavy Rain,(not a huge fan of the game btw) and at 1 point in the game you're a Police officer and you hold up some guy, the guy starts reaching into his pocket , and at that point you have the choice whether to shoot him or wait it out. I chose to shoot him, and after you shoot him ( or don't shoot him) you find out he was just pulling out a bible....
Allegory aside, this speaks in volumes.
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By fonewear 2014-08-15 11:35:41
I blame violent video games. I bet the officer was playing GTA V before he shot this kid.
To recap the events going on:
It all started with this:
Quote: The fatal shooting of an unarmed black St. Louis teen Saturday has caused an outcry of anger toward the city’s police, with locals rallying in the streets and widening uproar on social media.
Eighteen-year-old Michael Brown was being placed in a police squad car, eyewitness Piaget Crenshaw told the St. Louis Dispatch, when he put his hands in the air and attempted to flee. Several shots hit him as he ran away.
St. Louis County police chief Jon Belmar said Sunday that Brown struggled for the officer’s gun in the patrol car and that one shot was fired from the officer’s gun during the tussle. The officer fired multiple shots at Brown as he fled, Belmar said.
Anger flared the rest of the day after Brown’s death, as protesters screamed obscenities mixed with threats to “kill the police,” and more than 60 area police officers responded to the scene. More shots were reported, though no one was injured. Public Outcry After Police Shooting of Black St. Louis Teenager
Then this happened:
Quote: An uneasy calm settled over Ferguson, Missouri, early Tuesday after a second night of violent clashes between law enforcement and residents protesting the police shooting of an unarmed black teenager, with another demonstration planned for mid-morning.
So far, more than 50 people have been arrested in protests following the death of Michael Brown, 18, in a largely black St. Louis suburb on Saturday after what police officials said was a struggle with a gun in a squad car.
The FBI has opened a civil rights investigation into the racially charged case, and St. Louis County is also investigating the shooting.
Police have not said why Brown was in the police car. At least one shot was fired during the struggle, and then the officer fired more shots before leaving the car, police said.
Chanting "hands up, don’t shoot," protesters overnight challenged police trying to seal off the neighborhood where Brown was shot, a low-income, high-crime area east of downtown Ferguson. Some protesters said they were outraged that Brown appeared to have been shot while holding his hands up in surrender, calling the shooting the latest in a long history of police harassment of area minorities.
"They brought this on themselves," said 25-year-old Adam Burcher of Ferguson, who stood outside the Ferguson Police Department on Monday night with a sign reading "Stop Killing."
Later on Tuesday, a protest is expected outside the St. Louis County prosecutor's office in Clayton, Missouri, and officials are also expected to identify the police officer involved in the shooting. Another protest set in Missouri after riots over teen's killing
Followed by this:
Quote: Violence again erupted in the St. Louis area near the site of the police shooting death of an unarmed black teenager, according to local police, despite calls by U.S. President Barack Obama and activists for a measured response.
Early on Wednesday, a police officer shot and critically wounded a man who drew a handgun near the site of protests over the death of 18-year-old Michael Brown, a St. Louis County Police Department officer said.
Police responded about an hour after midnight to reports of four or five men with shotguns and wearing ski masks. They encountered multiple suspects running, one of whom pulled a gun on an officer, who fired at him, the county officer said. The man was taken to an area hospital.
Shortly after midnight, police fired tear gas into protesters who had confronted a line of officers after a far larger crowd dispersed, St. Louis County Police Department spokesman Brian Schellman said.
A photograph in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch showed a protester wearing a shirt with an American flag printed on it throwing a tear gas container back at the police. There were other media reports of bottles thrown at police.
The incidents followed two nights of violent protests, looting and arrests in Ferguson, the largely black St. Louis suburb where the shooting of Brown took place. Violence erupts again after killing of black Missouri teen
And now to bring you up to date:
Quote:
The Ferguson and St. Louis County police departments, which led the initial response to civil unrest in Ferguson, are both equipped with military equipment donated by the Defense Dept. Ferguson has received two vehicles, a trailer and a generator and St. Louis County has received nine utility trucks and two cargo trailers since 2012.
The equipment was received under the 1033 program which was enacted by Congress in 1992, and expanded in 1997. The program allows police forces to request and receive refurbished military equipment free of charge from the Pentagon. Police departments need only pay for shipping. Ferguson and St. Louis County police received military equipment from Pentagon
Quote: President Barack Obama on Thursday said that police should respect protesters after four nights of racially charged demonstrations in Ferguson, Missouri, over the recent police killing of an unarmed black teenager.
"There is never an excuse for violence against police or for those who would use this tragedy as a cover for vandalism or looting," Obama said a televised remarks.
"There's also no excuse for police to use excessive force against peaceful protesters or to throw protesters in jail for lawfully exercising their first amendment rights," he said, speaking to the press from Edgartown, Massachusetts near where he is vacationing with his family.
After the shooting death of 18-year-old Michael Brown in the St. Louis suburb on Saturday, dozens of protesters have been arrested and the police have used riot gear, tear gas and rubber bullets to break up protests.
There have been peaceful vigils and demonstrations as well as episodes of looting and violence.
Governor Jay Nixon on Thursday also told community members at a church in the St. Louis area that "over the next few hours we are going to be making some shifts so that people will be ... safe." He did not specify what his steps would be made. Obama calls for police to respect protesters in Ferguson, Missouri
Don't forget this one too:
Quote: Two reporters covering the shooting of an unarmed black teen by a white police officer in a St. Louis suburb say they were arrested at a McDonald’s Wednesday evening in the commercial corridor where angry protests have occurred.
Wesley Lowery of The Washington Post and Ryan Reilly of The Huffington Post say they were working in the fast-food restaurant when SWAT officers came in to quickly clear the area. Both quickly tweeted about their arrests, detention and subsequent release without any charges.
Reilly tells KMOX News that officers were trying to clear out the restaurant.
“I was just packing up, and I evidently did not move quickly enough,” he says.
Reilly says an officer banged his head on the restaurant door and sarcastically apologized for it.
“None of them were wearing name badges, I don’t know why,” he says. “Over a dozen times I asked for an identity, I asked for a badge number, and all the officers standing around heard my request and ignored it.”
Reilly said he believes they were released so quickly because they were journalists. He realized during his interview with KMOX News that he was not read his Miranda Rights.
“I wasn’t even Mirandaized,” he says. “I did not even think about that until you just mentioned. I was never given…nothing…wow. I should really know that as a justice reporter. I sort of knew it by heart, but I was never given my rights, or anything like that was mentioned.”
Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson did not immediately return a cellphone message from The Associated Press seeking comment. 2 Reporters Arrested At Ferguson McDonald’s
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