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It's just a curiosity of mine, because I've still heard of LSes whipping out GEO/Indi Haste for stuff like Bastok Dyna D Wave 2 slow aura boss, and things like it. A slow aura, etc is going to overwrite and prevent you from using the regular haste slot. Which often means that you aren't just eating slow, but you're no longer capping magic haste.
What using other haste sources is doing here is letting you recap magic haste even without the normal haste buff slot. You're still eating the slow penalty, but at least you're not slowed and at uncapped magic haste. So there is some merit to it, with regards to attack speed? |
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What do people use for enfeebling sets? I see the guides point to Geomancy set, but I can't see what the value of "Set: Enhances magic accuracy". Azimuth seems to beat it out on MND, INT and Macc in most cases.
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Thank you for your help
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It's just a curiosity of mine, because I've still heard of LSes whipping out GEO/Indi Haste for stuff like Bastok Dyna D Wave 2 slow aura boss, and things like it. A slow aura, etc is going to overwrite and prevent you from using the regular haste slot. Which often means that you aren't just eating slow, but you're no longer capping magic haste.
What using other haste sources is doing here is letting you recap magic haste even without the normal haste buff slot. You're still eating the slow penalty, but at least you're not slowed and at uncapped magic haste. |
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DRG has access to Convert dmg to TP armor, as well as better jumps as you mentioned which can also drain TP. I know its been done, the problem is that it translates to a slower aminon kill so most dont toy around with it.
Does it really? The meta is built around DNC, so there has been ample time to fine tune that strategy and do it enough times to where this seems to be true. But has anyone made a valiant effort to replace DD with something like DRG over several runs? Climactic WS rotation is incredibly strong, but what Simon is describing is also incredibly strong. You lose no defense down from steps (actually, Angon provides 2% more), you have a built-in hate shed with High Jump (basically never capping hate with Fly High + High Jump), free TP from your wyvern (which will also be reset multiple times). Spirit Surge is not completely useless either, and has an interesting effect for Aminon specifically when used with High Jump. I see incredible utility with DRG in place of DNC, so idk man, a decked out Gae Buide DRG might pull out all 9s in the same manner DNC does.
Also, FWIW, Leg Sweep on bosses like CG are busted (like 10+ second stun), which can make dealing with stuns/haunt a lot easier (or you can do metal to not have to worry about losing movement speed).
The guy who does Double Monk posted something impressive like 6 or 7min kills? That's not bad by Any stretch of the imagination but it's not as fast as DNC
The people I know doing DRG were doing like 8/9minute kills
Edit: Obviously the answer to your question is no, not enough people are trying to break the meta. But from anecdotal and theoretical standpoints, it simply doesnt compare. It's good enough to warrant if your team cant afford to make a DNC from scratch, or if they simply want to try something fresh or have fun with it. It can get the job done. His group's fastest Double Monk was 4:27 Aminon. Looks so ballin' it's got me thinking about Monk every other time I think about what to work on next. |
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*lights the Martel signal*
Heard you did some Slow vs. Haste tests recently.
Saw it was for recast, was it verified with Attack Speed as well? Uhh... "recently"? I'm gonna need some context here, cause I'm not sure what you're asking. Idk actual time frame (maybe it was from last year), someone was linking me a Discord blurb where you tested whether or not Haste from GEO/other source overpowered Slow or not.
You took a RDM and GEO to ballista, and did full power GEO Haste, and then casted Slow II from RDM.
Results were your recast still went up by like 13 seconds, so the Haste did not impact the penalty from slow, at least as far as recast was concerned.
I was just wondering if it was the same for attack speed? Wow, sorry, this one fell off my radar after I had issues finding the old post to review. I did find it eventually though.
Anyway. No, I didn't test it on melee. But I have no reason to believe it works differently there. Magic haste works on melee delay. Magic slow works on melee delay. I don't see any reason to expect them to interact differently there than on recasts.
Testing melee delay is also a lot more tedious than checking a few recasts.
It's just a curiosity of mine, because I've still heard of LSes whipping out GEO/Indi Haste for stuff like Bastok Dyna D Wave 2 slow aura boss, and things like it.
It's also curious because Hundred Fists does give an example of attack speed that ignores Slow (other than the first attack round delay post activation). |
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Anyone know the location of the ??? - Asura server
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The guy who does Double Monk posted something impressive like 6 or 7min kills?
Pretty sure he wrote 4min+ but not sure if that was HQ Aminon or normal. |
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*lights the Martel signal*
Heard you did some Slow vs. Haste tests recently.
Saw it was for recast, was it verified with Attack Speed as well? Uhh... "recently"? I'm gonna need some context here, cause I'm not sure what you're asking. Idk actual time frame (maybe it was from last year), someone was linking me a Discord blurb where you tested whether or not Haste from GEO/other source overpowered Slow or not.
You took a RDM and GEO to ballista, and did full power GEO Haste, and then casted Slow II from RDM.
Results were your recast still went up by like 13 seconds, so the Haste did not impact the penalty from slow, at least as far as recast was concerned.
I was just wondering if it was the same for attack speed? Wow, sorry, this one fell off my radar after I had issues finding the old post to review. I did find it eventually though.
Anyway. No, I didn't test it on melee. But I have no reason to believe it works differently there. Magic haste works on melee delay. Magic slow works on melee delay. I don't see any reason to expect them to interact differently there than on recasts.
Testing melee delay is also a lot more tedious than checking a few recasts. |
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Found this 10 years later than I would have liked! Thank you for the time spent updating this. Just returning. If anyone reads this before october, go get your spriggan mons from the crossover event! 1 of each crystal traded to each of the 3 spriggan to recieve the main and its 2 alternate forms. This may be listed somewhere on here, but I didnt read all 38 pages. They are war/blm (but one seems to be blm/war as it has blm skills and far more mana and spells).
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It's a footwork swap until emp+3 after that it's pretty pointless
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Doing some inventory clean up. Before I toss it, does Shukuyu Sune-Ate still serve any purpose? Seems empy +3 is used for footwork activation and AF+4 while the buff is active. |
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Necro but, was doing imps yesterday and Amnesia hit. Are there non ody gearsets just for when Amnesia lands and you're fully buffed but can't use abilities? Thank you. You would want to focus on your auto attack damage if you couldn't use abilities.
With the specification of non-Odyssey sets in mind it'd basically be:
ItemSet 400425
Gets you to 100% double attack with 5/5 merits, and 4/5ths set bonus, with the % double attack damage increase from Cichol Mantle.
Since no Odyssey gear allowed was specified, used R15 Antitail for 6% double attack in the ranged slot.
Tbh I'd probably prioritize a critical hit rate/double attack set if I couldn't use abilities for an extended period of time. You wouldn't have AM3 Up for the juicy crits, but crits do still chunk quite a bit. Just throw Odin body in there then from the HTBF. |
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Thank you all for the replies! I was able to knock out some nyzul just now, 21k away from finishing base tizona. I more often lowman things, so that sounds real promising Navius. And fractalvoid for the expiacion numbers, mling my blu without tizona didn't feel the greatest lmao
I was in a situation of which to make first, geo club or blu sword. Geo club is purely for collecting, so sounds like it can come after I make sword!
Extra tidbit, for the undead floors of limbus, Ingrid will spam banish for that sdt. :)
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By NynJa on 2025-08-24 21:51:31 |
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Nothing i said was wrong
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Literally everyone misuses the word "literally"
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Necro but, was doing imps yesterday and Amnesia hit. Are there non ody gearsets just for when Amnesia lands and you're fully buffed but can't use abilities? Thank you. You would want to focus on your auto attack damage if you couldn't use abilities.
With the specification of non-Odyssey sets in mind it'd basically be:
ItemSet 400425
Gets you to 100% double attack with 5/5 merits, and 4/5ths set bonus, with the % double attack damage increase from Cichol Mantle.
Since no Odyssey gear allowed was specified, used R15 Antitail for 6% double attack in the ranged slot.
Tbh I'd probably prioritize a critical hit rate/double attack set if I couldn't use abilities for an extended period of time. You wouldn't have AM3 Up for the juicy crits, but crits do still chunk quite a bit. |
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Interested in a Chango BiS equipset since the equips in the Warrior Cyklos thread aren't loading for me for some reason.
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By NynJa on 2025-08-24 21:09:43 |
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Except OP said, and i quote, “you will literally never see a difference in performance, not even in a parse”. Im certain if you run the same exact same scenario with WAR+1 and WAR+2, you will indeed see a difference, both in the sims and on an actual parse.
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By . on 2025-08-24 20:34:56 |
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It makes me sad that you guys lack decorum.
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By mhomho on 2025-08-24 20:28:17 |
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »To answer your question, using my criteria: heishi, godhands, fomalhaut are all S, or maybe A tier. Certainly nowhere remotely close to C. Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »a lot of aeonics would still be A tier or higher. They're very strong, even when compared to all the other REMA, at least half or a third of them are A tier or higher.
3/16 is a lot to you.
3/16 is a third if not half.
You're the one flip-flopping. 3/16 isn't a third or half or even a quarter of them. That's less that 25%. You think 25% is a lot? You're the flip-flopper. I've soundly said, all the weapons in on list multiple times. You just don't agree on rankings. I bet if I looked at your tier list the high tiers would be over bloated with non-sense.
Why would you not factor in acquisition method in when you're considering how you're investing your time. That's like saying that a weapon tier list has no relationship with who is able to wield the weapon. Is Annihilator good? Sure. Would it better if Cor could use it? I think so. Do I consider Cor not being able to use it as a negative when ranking Annihilator? Absolutely.
Don't tell me half to a third and then come back with less than a quarter. That means you're the one arguing bad faith. Just because you didn't literally say all does not mean you're argument wasn't for the majority of them. 3/16 is not the majority of them.
I get that you guys can't agree to disagree, but flagging voices of dissent to try to squelch them with a ban is authoritarian. It speaks more to who you are.
I'll give them Aminon. They make Dnc sound awesome. |
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It's like buddy said above
There are multiple ways to do Aminon
Back when i was doing sortie like ages ago
Seen setups that used either DRK/MNK/THF
I also think BLU would be a good contender
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But from anecdotal and theoretical standpoints, it simply doesnt compare.
Anecdotal sure, but curious what "theoretical" evidence suggests that DRG can't compare to DNC in terms of kill speed? What are they lacking on Aminon that DNC gains? Genuinely asking.
The only thing I can think of is only 1 WS option with Diarmuid (might still cap even with the wall, depending on your tp value), whereas DNC can rotate Rudras and Ruthless? |
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I'd be curious to see a video of Prime DRG lead Aminon run, just because. Apples to Apples type comparison.
Same honestly, and I'd really love to see a DNC COR BRD RDM GEO BLU teamcomp where the BLU tanks and DD's/buffs/debuffs where applicable (and cleaves flans faster?)
But most groups (mine included) would rather just keep getting out maxxed out/tried and true runs and progressing than mess around. No need to re-invent the wheel so to say |
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I'd be curious to see a video of Prime DRG lead Aminon run, just because. Apples to Apples type comparison.
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You guys are over here like all Aeonics are A-tier. There's no way Khatvanga is A-tier.
Speaking of reading comprehension tests: I'm sorry but who the *** said that?
You just say a blanket statement like all Aeonics should be A-tier and I'm like, really?
Seems like you think it's me, but I never said anything even remotely close to that.
I'd put Gay Build at B or A tier. I know you said specifically in relation to Drg, but the tierlist is all the weapons across all the jobs and that includes what the job brings to the table versus what jobs can even wield the weapon to begin with. So if Ghorn os bad when you include primes (assume F-tier), but good when you don't (assume A or S), then overall would it not make sense tonput it somewhere in the middle? C-tier.
Again...you don't seem to have understood my point. You either making a list with all the weapons (including primes) or you're not. We're not making a list that's an average of two lists. We're making one list. If it includes primes then that will affect the ranking of the other REMA. YOU are the one flip-flopping on whether or not primes are included, to suit your argument. I insisted that you should be consistent with the way you apply your logic.
It's not because I wanna play greatswodd War over Drk because there's some specific fights where you need Drk to mitigate TP feed to the enemy, no? So maybe in one or two fights Drk outshines War, but overall which weapon are you getting the most bang for your buck. Which has the greatest effective value.
Absolutely not. If you rank weapons by "how often do I play this job" it makes the list meaningless. Dropping a weapon's tier because the job isn't in the meta often enough is pointless for someone who's working on their NIN. What do they give a ***if WAR is used in more fights, or DRK is? They are trying to decide between WEAPONS, not JOBS. |
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Link to the discord has expired :)
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Yandaime doesnt understand opportunity cost either.
To these people who dont understand opportunity cost, I must ask: how would you feel if you didnt eat breakfast today?
You will literally never see a difference in performance between a WAR +1 and +2 Neck -Not even in a parse- What? lol
You telling me that
Accuracy+20 Attack+20 STR & DEX +12 "Dbl. Atk." +6%
is no different from
Accuracy+25 Attack+25 STR & DEX +15 "Dbl. Atk." +7%
Capping double attack on warrior is very easy. If you're attack capped as well and don't need accuracy either, the difference in these necks is literally 3 strength and 3 dex. I'm not saying you'll parse exactly the same, but this was my reasoning why I didn't bother saving up for or upgrading to the +2. The difference is so minimal in certain situations it makes no difference.
Now what I will state is that the obvious difference between the two necks provides a degree of gearing versatility that allows you to improve or innovate elsewhere, so the +2 is not worthless. But in a parse scenario, it's basically a distinction without a difference that likely won't show up in the parse at all. |
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RNG/MNK/SAM/DNC/DRG/THF/BST/DRK/NIN were all worth it.
-Some of these are basically "Yo, here is some STP/PDL"
-DRG gets Wyvern DT-25% which is kinda neat.
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Tbh DRG with Gea Buide should be seriously strong for Aminon. Jumps don't feed any tp and you can use all 4 of them, then use SP2, then use each jump again 3 times in 30 sec, then Random deal and Wild card and Random deal again. This is tons of tp gain from those jumps and potentially 7-9 99k Diarmuid in very short time. Then you can also go /drk on DRG and spam absorb-tp,
The meta is DNC, because its simply the best at dishing out high damage WS's and generating its own tp at the fastest rate... with Steps.... On Top of general utility throughout the run... however you're not wrong.
Initially, before the DNC meta, DRK and THF were the most common DD's to kill aminon. DRK provided stronger drains for more control as well as big numbers on its own. THF had SA/TA WS's, making it similar to DNC, but at a slower pace (but stronger TH for Meso)
After that, most people just simply gave up and settled on the path of least resistance... however, I know for a fact more strategies have been put to use to great or decent success.
There's the single MNK strat, the Double MNK strat, as well as subbing in a DRG as the DD. DRG has access to Convert dmg to TP armor, as well as better jumps as you mentioned which can also drain TP. I know its been done, the problem is that it translates to a slower aminon kill so most dont toy around with it.
Many speculate BLU can replace a tank in the comp as well, and I'm sure other jobs can get it done.
Nariont's point is completely accurate. People just prefer to go with the fastest because it makes the potential for higher Galli per run possible. When given the option of Every other day Aminon vs Every Day aminon, people will pursue a strategy that allows the latter.
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Now as far as this is relevant to a "Weapon Tier List" discussion... i'd rather not contribute to it going off the rails further than it already has. The conversation is already stifled with plenty of debates as to what job is or isnt good, which seems to defeat the point and spirit on the topic.
I dont think its relevant to say Gae Buide is better or worse because theoretically it could be used on a boss, that simply NO ONE uses it for. It's already undeniably the best polearm, so why can't we just leave it at that?
I was specifically answering mhomho, who said he would prefer war rng and Sam over Gea Buide DRG for Aminon, which seems really strange to me. I wasn't suggesting to go DRG over DNC. |
