The Beast Within -- A Guide To Blue Mage

How does R15 Tizona using Expiation compare to Savage Blade Naegling? Is it an upgrade in terms of damage?

If you are considering nothing else besides pure WS Damage, Naegling Savage Blade likely does higher numbers than Expiacion due to the fact that Naegling is busted and Savage Blade simply has better stats and modifiers/ftp vs Expiacion. You can probably stop reading here if that's all you care about. But that's only a small part of the decision to use Naegling over Expiacion IMO. Personally, unless I'm ONLY doing WS damage (in which case, I would question why I'm being asked to play BLU for this particular event), I almost always use Tizona+Expiacion.

If you're doing anything where MP-management is necessary or important, Tizona is better. If you're doing anything with a WS wall (like Kalunga or Sortie bosses), Tizona is better. If Magic Accuracy is a factor somewhere in the battle (perhaps to land defense down or something), Tizona is more beneficial. Also, AM3 makes Tizona an incredible tool and helps pump out faster WSs vs Naegling, so there's that to consider as well. Even in something like Segments where I'm probably only there to Savage Blade DPS, I still use Expiacion (but maybe this is a case where Naegling is better).

I suppose someone who is good with calculating the two could provide simulation on overall dps between the two weapons and the answer would be clear, but even then, I doubt the difference in WS damage would be large enough to make a meaningful difference in choosing Naegling over Tizona.Now if you don't have Tizona and are wondering if making one will skyrocket your damage, the answer is no. You can continue using your Naegling and get phenomenal performance out of it.

Buukki gave the best answer possible here, agree with everything he said. I only want to add that WS frequency can be a larger factor than WSD in situations where you don't need the extra WSD, like apex mobs or seg farm mobs. If they're going to die in 1 WS, 2 WS, or 3 WS no matter what, then doing 60k instead of 54k doesn't make a difference, and the WS frequency is actually going to produce better results overall.

I think Tizona > Naegling for the vast majority of cases, though it's not so fundamentally better that you MUST have one. If you play BLU a lot though, you'll find yourself wearing it a lot.

I believe this was already discussed at great length back when Naegling first hit the scene but this is simply not true; and the actual gap is considerable.

Expiacion:
30% STR, 20% DEX, 30% INT
1000 - 3.796875, 2000 - 9.390625, 3000 - 12.1875

vs Savage Blade:
50% STR, 50% MND
1000 - 4.0, 2000 - 10.25, 3000 - 13.75

If you are comparing a bare-naked Expiacion to Savage Blade, yes Savage is only slightly stronger but a R15 Tizona gets a confirmed +49.5% Boost to Expiacion, pushing it very considerably ahead of Naegling's Savage Blade. Yes, 50% STR/MND is nice but no WS has ever gained that much from stats to beat out Raw WSD/fTP increases, even if the mod was 100%.

An argument could Possibly be made for Naegling's Attack Boost? But I feel like the same scenario that would be favorable for Naegling would be equally favorable for Tizona so unless there's a Niche situation I'm not aware of, that boost should be a wash?

And as you already said, once you factor in the TP Gain, Over-TP Potential, MP Regeneration, and MAcc, Tizona is the sure and clear winner on all fronts.

As you and Maletaru said, if you use BLU alot you will want Tizona. Otherwise, Naegling will work just fine.

All solid points. Virtually never running out of MP sounds great as well, and probably lets you rotate in some more MP-demanding spells.

IDK what you mean by this. I assume you mean the 1% attack boost per buff that Naegling gets, but then don't understand how it would be equally favorable for Tizona? If a SMN gives you all stats+7 that gives Naegling ATK+7%, it gives Tizona nothing but stats. If you get Adloquium, Naegling gets ATK+1%, Tizona gets nothing but regain. Can continue down this road for stoneskin, aquaveil, barspells, weather, and any other buff you want. Could be ~20% more attack from Naegling vs Tizona, or more.

I'm not saying it necessarily makes the difference between one weapon being better than the other, but high-buff situations definitely strongly favor Naegling (high quantity of buffs, not necessarily high quality buffs). This is why Naegling is so powerful, because it has a huge native ATK bonus.

Ahhh Fair point, I wasn't considering that angle. I was looking at standard Melee buffs. March, Madrigal, Minuet, Chaos Roll and the usual other buffs that spike our attacks to all hell.

I still can't see Naegling Savage beating out Tizona R15 Expiacion BUT you're still right either way. Naegling is a fine weapon (actually entirely overtuned and too much job availability). Tizona is probably the only sword that beats the thing in most cases.

Savage Blade is for COR or BRD when it matters. When it doesn't matter...it doesn't matter. If macc, AM3, and easy mp management didn't sell you, then it's a good thing ambu weapons are cheap.

I think Tizona's general QoL makes the job more fun to play and it's a game

I'd be curious to see how "considerable" this gap is.


Well, when I said "Naegling is busted", Maletaru's example of stationary buffs activating +% Attack bonus from Naegling is exactly what I was talking about. It's easy to say "Naegling does higher WS Damage" or "Tizona is the better weapon", but all things should be taken into context. That's why I broke down my response the way I did to state there's several things to consider and it's not black and white. Regardless, I still don't care much about whatever damage difference there is between the two (if Tizona is "considerably" ahead as you say, more the better, please link the sims if you have them), because I still think Tizona is the better BLU weapon anyways, but IMO it should still be explained out in detail the contributing factors for where a weapon is better than another. Maletaru's example was a perfect one; not every single scenario will you have capped buffs like what you mentioned in your quote above. And a person who is on the fence about making Tizona might personally decide the extra dps isn't all that hot over just Naegling, though that's a separate issue because you don't make a Tizona to be top DD BLU, but everything else that makes BLU good.