The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos

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The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos
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By SimonSes 2019-09-23 13:13:39  
So for Upheaval:
At 1000+750TP Regal wins by like 0.12% even before fighter's roll and without fSTR from STR, which means Niqmaddu wins even more with it's QA (I haven't even calculated it, but Niqmaddu for capped attack is basically same stats as Regal + 3%QA)
At 2000+750TP Kari wins by like 0.29% also before fighter's roll and without fSTR from STR etc.

TL;DR For Upheaval use Regal + Niqmaddu if you use fighter's roll and unless you want to make special condition in lua to put Kari instead of Regal at like 1750 TP (or with Warcry I guess) for super marginal gain, you can use Regal also without fighter's roll.

For Impulse the situation is pretty similar. Niqmaddu wins by miles. Now 2nd ring can be anything. Epam vs Kari will be very close. It will depends a little on fighters roll or not etc. but none of this rings will produce more than 1% advantage over other at various TP. Regal generally winning at 1000+250TP, then loosing slightly at 2000+250TP and even more at 3000TP. All below 1% difference tho.

Spaitin said: »
if you are crafting on your main account then I want to speak to your supervisor.

Some people started crafting like 9 year ago or earlier and you wouldnt know about SoA ring back then. I dont think like doing all crafts again on alt, but maybe... idk. It's easy now after all. But if I would switch to crafting on mule because of SoA ring, it would be pet ring or light affinity ring, definietely not for Kari super marginal gains in some scenarios :P The problem is to make craft ring on mule, you would need to make SoA, legends in all coalitions and all other requirements for +1 ring... That's probably more work than craft itself. Not to mention 6months of waiting for coalitions alone.

EDIT: Well I guess you could use NQ crafting ring too. It's the same HQ rate, just 1% less for material loss and 1% more chance to craft success.
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By Bismarck.Firedemon 2019-09-23 13:31:33  
You can come speak to my supervisor then. I was one of few NA 100 blacksmiths on Bismarck and I'm not about to relevel the same craft on another mule because of a stupid ring. I'll keep my Orvail over another ring that's marginally better under certain conditions.
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By Spaitin 2019-09-23 14:16:18  
SimonSes said: »
So for Upheaval:
At 1000+750TP Regal wins by like 0.12% even before fighter's roll and without fSTR from STR, which means Niqmaddu wins even more with it's QA (I haven't even calculated it, but Niqmaddu for capped attack is basically same stats as Regal + 3%QA)
At 2000+750TP Kari wins by like 0.29% also before fighter's roll and without fSTR from STR etc.

TL;DR For Upheaval use Regal + Niqmaddu if you use fighter's roll and unless you want to make special condition in lua to put Kari instead of Regal at like 1750 TP (or with Warcry I guess) for super marginal gain, you can use Regal also without fighter's roll.

For Impulse the situation is pretty similar. Niqmaddu wins by miles. Now 2nd ring can be anything. Epam vs Kari will be very close. It will depends a little on fighters roll or not etc. but none of this rings will produce more than 1% advantage over other at various TP. Regal generally winning at 1000+250TP, then loosing slightly at 2000+250TP and even more at 3000TP. All below 1% difference tho.

Spaitin said: »
if you are crafting on your main account then I want to speak to your supervisor.

Some people started crafting like 9 year ago or earlier and you wouldnt know about SoA ring back then. I dont think like doing all crafts again on alt, but maybe... idk. It's easy now after all. But if I would switch to crafting on mule because of SoA ring, it would be pet ring or light affinity ring, definietely not for Kari super marginal gains in some scenarios :P The problem is to make craft ring on mule, you would need to make SoA, legends in all coalitions and all other requirements for +1 ring... That's probably more work than craft itself. Not to mention 6months of waiting for coalitions alone.

EDIT: Well I guess you could use NQ crafting ring too. It's the same HQ rate, just 1% less for material loss and 1% more chance to craft success.
alright so like i figured. tiny differences with the exception that epam can take you out of your 3 hit builds more often. with niq reg kari you dont have to worry about that like with epam. are you referring to 1750 actualy TP or 1750 before bonus? because with moonshade war will never be below 1750 (chango). but if that is true and it is close enough that it really doesnt matter. I should probably go niq/regal on everything 2 hand (wsd ws, probably flamma/niq for reso which i am fairly sure i use). maybe make a rule for kari during warcry with chango because you will be firing at 2450 minimum. but as you pointed out. tiny differences. nice of you to run the numbers.
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By Spaitin 2019-09-23 14:19:12  
Bismarck.Firedemon said: »
You can come speak to my supervisor then. I was one of few NA 100 blacksmiths on Bismarck and I'm not about to relevel the same craft on another mule because of a stupid ring. I'll keep my Orvail over another ring that's marginally better under certain conditions.
it has been a minute. but i think you can hit 100 craft in like 3 hours. or download the lua to do it automatically. which is what 99% of crafters do. crafting takes up a lot of inventory space on the main imo.
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By SimonSes 2019-09-23 14:29:54  
Spaitin said: »
Bismarck.Firedemon said: »
You can come speak to my supervisor then. I was one of few NA 100 blacksmiths on Bismarck and I'm not about to relevel the same craft on another mule because of a stupid ring. I'll keep my Orvail over another ring that's marginally better under certain conditions.
it has been a minute. but i think you can hit 100 craft in like 3 hours. or download the lua to do it automatically. which is what 99% of crafters do. crafting takes up a lot of inventory space on the main imo.

You know you need to actually find materials for higher lvl crafts, unlock ranks, then gather tons of GP points for items and shield? It's not 3 hours, it's ton of work actually.
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By Spaitin 2019-09-23 14:31:16  
SimonSes said: »
Spaitin said: »
Bismarck.Firedemon said: »
You can come speak to my supervisor then. I was one of few NA 100 blacksmiths on Bismarck and I'm not about to relevel the same craft on another mule because of a stupid ring. I'll keep my Orvail over another ring that's marginally better under certain conditions.
it has been a minute. but i think you can hit 100 craft in like 3 hours. or download the lua to do it automatically. which is what 99% of crafters do. crafting takes up a lot of inventory space on the main imo.

You know you need to actually find materials for higher lvl crafts, unlock ranks, then gather tons of GP points for items and shield? It's not 3 hours, it's ton of work actually.
yeah shields take forever. no arguement there. most of the crafters i know (all i think) did it on alts. but we seem to be digressing with this talk of craft shields. from what you are showing me it is niq/regal with a minor sub 1% advatage for kari or epam at very high tp values . so regal niq seems to be overall king. in which case you can ignore the SoA ring issue entirely.
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By SimonSes 2019-09-23 14:42:59  
Spaitin said: »
in which case you can ignore the SoA ring issue entirely.

Like I said, my issue would be more with light affinity ring or pet job ring. I recently started gearing PUP and RDM more seriously and will eventually work on Gastra for RNG and it's a real deal for those jobs. Not a talk for War thread tho, so will end here :)
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By Spaitin 2019-09-23 14:46:02  
SimonSes said: »
Spaitin said: »
in which case you can ignore the SoA ring issue entirely.

Like I said, my issue would be more with light affinity ring or pet job ring. I recently started gearing PUP and RDM more seriously and will eventually work on Gastra for RNG and it's a real deal for those jobs. Not a talk for War thread tho, so will end here :)
yeah i get tempted by pet ring for my bst lots of times. but i only ever find bst particularly useful for dynamis or soloing virava. maybe ill give in.
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By Spaitin 2019-09-24 09:14:23  
SimonSes said: »
He has a set that mostly only he uses that is actually a 3hit build. When he is talking about standards, he actually means his standards, which are actually way above actual standards. He has sets for almost all buffs and scenarios when most WARs have like 3 sets and most of them dont have special sets for 11 sam rostam roll.
I kinda dissagree with that. this set gets you a 3 hit build with fighters roll and chango/montante and probably a few other options.

ItemSet 367125

This is a pretty common tp set for sam/fighters roll war builds. and imo is a must have for all wars. I would say i use this set more than any other TP set . using chirichi is also very common but i like to be a touch more durable. gives you 100% da with 3 hit build on lucky sams roll with bonus or better(for me lately has been vast majority of time.) has a little flexibility with rings and earrings. personally if i dont pull hate i love chirichi for the SB. on an 11 you can use dagon instead of val. if you use that new 5 stp 5 da food then things can get very interesting. I would always recommend using it on stuff where acc isnt a concern (acc isnt that big of an issue these days) in which case you dont need the bonus on lucky roll.

Editt*** forgot to include /sam into the STP. you actually get a 3 hit build with most of the sam roll values.
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By Asura.Saevel 2019-09-24 09:56:33  
And this is what we all hear,

Whack whack whack
yeah look at my awesome
whack whack whack
oh yeah take that
whack whack whack

This is why we don't take him seriously. Helping people to get better is a noble and admirable goal to pursue. Using people's questions as an excuse to publicly masturbate is abhorrent.
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By Spaitin 2019-09-24 09:57:26  
Asura.Saevel said: »
And this is what we all here,

Whack whack whack
yeah look at my awesome
whack whack whack
oh yeah take that
whack whack whack

This is why we don't take him seriously. Helping people to get better is a noble and admirable goal to pursue. Using people's questions as an excuse to publicly masturbate is abhorrent.
and here is another example of personal attacks (basically the only thing he does on this thread these days) which Saevel apparently considers bad. He goes full narcissist again and added himself to a conversation he wasnt part of to be mean. and like most of his recent posts, adds nothing of value. Seems to be your hobby. He apparently thinks he is of royal blood and refers to himself as "we". If you are still upset about yesterday i recommend breathing exercises. You seem to be very emotional and easily triggered. Since i called him out he seems to checking in and just trying to come up with some good insult. Luckily all of his insults are pretty lame. It is kind of cute that he thinks people take him seriously. Im sure 1 or 2 do. those poor people. He either calls you an idiot or does some wierd sexual ego insult. Is it weird that most of his insults towards me seem to involve my penis or me masturbating? weird that he fixates on that. And just to call him a hypocrite again

Asura.Saevel said: »
Typical Chango default build is 5-hit (WS +4), Samurai's roll reduces it to a 4-hit (WS +3). With WAR's 100% DA these look much shorter due to every attack round being two hits, and retaliation also comes into play causing invisible TP gain.

For dynamis, most of the damage is being done (or should be done) by the BLU's who are AoE burning packs of mobs, the melee's are really just cleaning up a bit. The red statues champions on the other hand are were melee's like WAR shine because they can multi-step SC them into the ground.

The Store TP -10 ring is pretty bad, but shouldn't have much difference on Upheaval because of it's multi-hit nature bringing in more TP then is necessary for the first hit of the 4-hit cycle.

Saevel publicly masturbating by explaining something we already knew to let us know how smart he is. Funny thing is he was also incorrect in even needing to post it.
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By Staleyx 2019-09-24 10:55:04  
Who are you again?
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By Asura.Saevel 2019-09-24 16:57:13  
Staleyx said: »
Who are you again?

Not sure, he showed up a few months back and started attacking folks and trying to "upset the meta" by humble bragging on how much better he is then everyone else. Post count indicates it's likely someone's alt. Not much to discuss these days as the game's been pretty stale for awhile so we tolerate him jerking off as it's mildly amusing.
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By Spaitin 2019-09-24 17:13:56  
Asura.Saevel said: »
BLU's tenebral is AoE and done as an incident of them clearing trash mobs in a farming run. If a BLU is a DD for a Wave3 clear (we've used them) then they probably won't be running Tenebral as it's dangerous and instead be using Sweeping Gouge ....but... if there is a SAM or WAR present those are in a far better position to apply defense down, and should be on Wave3 champion mobs.

The point I was making, which ole boy tried to BS his way through, was that attack isn't capped nearly as often as people like to pretend. If people had memories greater then two weeks, they might realize that I was the original person advocating for Fighters Roll whenever possible because it's epic when the situation merits, no so much for that it was does for TP gain but what it does for WS averages. People get caught up over MA in TP sets without realizing how much we remove from our WS sets, adding more from a buff is a great way to boost your WS average.

Of course we gotta be cognizant of the situation to use it in and like everything in FFXI it's situational.
another example of saevel masturbating. also another personal attack. things he apparently considers bad. he is still emotional for some reason.
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By ocean 2019-09-25 15:05:32  
Speaking of epaminodas. I believe a good rule of thumb is avoid using this ring on any multi hit ws that has 3 or more hits as it will negatively effect your overall dmg output. In the case of upheaval snapster did a lot of testing and found the -10stp hurt overall output enough that other options were better
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By Rixit 2019-09-26 10:47:35  
ocean said: »
Speaking of epaminodas. I believe a good rule of thumb is avoid using this ring on any multi hit ws that has 3 or more hits as it will negatively effect your overall dmg output. In the case of upheaval snapster did a lot of testing and found the -10stp hurt overall output enough that other options were better

was about to test this and still going to :O
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By SimonSes 2019-09-26 13:21:17  
ocean said: »
Speaking of epaminodas. I believe a good rule of thumb is avoid using this ring on any multi hit ws that has 3 or more hits as it will negatively effect your overall dmg output. In the case of upheaval snapster did a lot of testing and found the -10stp hurt overall output enough that other options were better

You know that the effect of additional hits is reall low for -10stp right?


Like With Chango you have base 134TP per hit, so on 1hit WS you would lose 13.4TP from -10sTP and with 3hit WS you would lose 15.4TP
 
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By Spaitin 2019-09-28 15:38:07  
SimonSes said: »
ocean said: »
Speaking of epaminodas. I believe a good rule of thumb is avoid using this ring on any multi hit ws that has 3 or more hits as it will negatively effect your overall dmg output. In the case of upheaval snapster did a lot of testing and found the -10stp hurt overall output enough that other options were better

You know that the effect of additional hits is reall low for -10stp right?


Like With Chango you have base 134TP per hit, so on 1hit WS you would lose 13.4TP from -10sTP and with 3hit WS you would lose 15.4TP
yeah but with upheaval you are going to lose something around 16.4-18.4(so 16-18)depending on your MA proccs. We played with it again and for warrior we have Niq/regal/kariHQ being the overall best rings with Epam being the worst. still good, but after double checking, agree withyou that niq/regal are the overall king rings. For warrior unless you are doing a SB spam or something like that, skip the epam. And looking around, quite a few people's numbers agree with that. Gets a little tricky since there is not an accurate spreadsheet or sim for war. For jobs like sam or drk with torcleaver and fudo then epam is probably a better option.
 
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By maxiel 2019-09-30 08:00:13  
Am I right to say Shining One is not a huge priority investment if my DD that uses it is only WAR? I have Motante +1 and someone said a few pages back it beats Shining One and it wasn't refuted. Pulse Weapons are pretty expensive for me to invest in atm and i'm deciding between 2/3 options are Coruscanti, Maxentius (mostly for Macc purposes) and Shining ONe. My gut tells me to go with dagger and club.

This is for general use. I don't really bring WAR to MS Zerg often enough for that to be weighed in.
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By Valefor.Yandaime 2019-09-30 10:08:55  
Asura.Yojimmbo said: »
Asura.Yojimmbo said: »
Is there a dream tp set for Chango? If so does anyone know what the current gear set is? I keep getting mixed results. Very much appreciated.
Edit: Best In Slot
Bump, because some peeps are running around with war beads+1 and a petrov ring ; ;


Unfortunately, regardless of how well updated the sets are you will always see people that are completely oblivious to them. I actually run into some players that still have no idea what FFXIAH.com even is lol.

Anyway Kaldaek's post from page 159 is pretty accurate.

ItemSet 368315
The primary goal is to get 100% DA Natively so getting 5% DA Augment on the Valor Body is important if you want to do it without needing to lock out your Rings/Earrings (This is probably why you saw the +1 Beads and Petrov Ring, they simply don't have the massive gil to get the +2 neck and did what they had to do)

You also have the option of using Relic +3 Body for the same DA but then you won't get the STP. If you almost always have a COR, not a big deal, but I prefer to be at 4-hit natively and then have the COR push me into 3-hit territory so that I can enjoy all the over-tp forever. Also makes Low-Manning or Low-buff situations much more comfortable.

The Hybrid Options have changed recently but this is still good

ItemSet 360783

Me personally, my Hybrid is the TP set but I swap the Body for Souveran +1 and use both Moonlight Rings (Friggin LOVE these rings). Might not be as good as the Odin Variants but still works perfectly fine for me imho.

Spaitin just posted a TP variant for use when under Fighter's Roll either at the beginning of this page here or just in the last one or two. I myself do not have such a Hybrid set yet mostly because I've been working too much but also because I literally almost never have more than one COR. Seriously, never. And unless our group makes a very specific plan, we always default to Chaos and Samurai rolls.

VERY good ruleset to have just not seen near frequent enough for inclusion (Just speaking from my own experience here)
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By Spaitin 2019-09-30 10:25:09  
for the majority of content outside of dynamis wave three, You dont get any benefit from chaos on war(also dont really need it on wave three depending on your alli set up). So on most of my DDx2 set ups with bard cor geo whm i use this set. This is what I use for almost all of geas fete content. This set is ONLY for when you have fighters roll up. easy to make too which is nice.Still solid if you dont have fighters.
ItemSet 367125
The hjarrandi hybrid set is pretty awesome and allows you to TP very well and be super durable. It is pretty sweet.
If you are forced to go sam and something other than fighters roll then this is a good set.
ItemSet 367121 Swapping out dagon for val is actually an improvement, but i spent forever getting that stupid body so I am going to use it.
maxiel said: »
Am I right to say Shining One is not a huge priority investment if my DD that uses it is only WAR?
You can completely skip shining one. Montante+1 is actually easier to gear (imo)
 
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By Valefor.Yandaime 2019-09-30 12:38:12  
Spaitin said: »
for the majority of content outside of dynamis wave three, You dont get any benefit from chaos on war(also dont really need it on wave three depending on your alli set up). So on most of my DDx2 set ups with bard cor geo whm i use this set. This is what I use for almost all of geas fete content. This set is ONLY for when you have fighters roll up. easy to make.


I may have missed afew pages is it really that easy to cap PDIF? I was thinking that you’d basically need all attack buffs AND Idris Frailty/Fury to drop relevant targets’ defense?
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By Spaitin 2019-09-30 13:26:41  
on the escha mobs it is basically just bard and geo /dia to cap attack. including helms. Helms you will be using 1 hours so the mob will have very little defense because of bolster. stuff like Neak/Yakshi/Maju you can cap attack with a reso build just using regular fury/frial on idris(and dia). Dynamis wave three things get a little more complicated depending on alli set up.
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By oyama 2019-09-30 16:02:21  
It's really going to depend on your group. If your DDs are top/high tier and your support/debuff line is fleshed out and maxed on gear and stuff, then yea. If it's more spotty or you have newer members covering support and they aren't maxed, you may find mixed results, esp on Dyna NMs in general where geomancy takes a hit.
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By Spaitin 2019-09-30 16:32:35  
Oyama is correct, i have a habbit of assuming max buffs /gear for everyone. Chaos is going to be more beneficial the less geared your buffers are.
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By Bismarck.Ihinaa 2019-09-30 18:27:18  
C-c-c-c-combo breakkkkkk
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