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New Guildwork Plugin Data - Merits & Key Items
 Siren.Calnus
サーバ: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 796
By Siren.Calnus 2013-02-20 23:42:27
By tracking combat skills into the 99 point calculations, and by allowing the tracking of 75 80 85 90 95 99 99II on empy/relic/mythic with proper scaling... the achievement system will go from who cares to actually a fairly accurate assessment of ones own character. Very little room for exploitation.
By adding things like dring, ebisu and rare items.
By adding maybe proof of kills of Absolute Virtue, Pand. Warden, and other HNM/kings via title as maybe suggested in OP could also prove interesting (Though this would have been nice 4-5 years ago compared to now, unless they add more HNM type kinds to SoA which would be nice.)
In regards to that last paragraph... They are already now tracked. It is called Atma. Correct but those KI's are pulled from the abyssea tab. Not the titles, temporary, or permanent which is why I stated 1 post prior that the ability should already exist considering it can already do merits and similar.
I'm not sure what atma have to do with titles though from kings/HNM or what I was talking about. It has everything to do with it
ffxiclopedia.org->Atma->Synthetic Atma->Visions Synthetic Atmas
What happens if you didn't go into abyssea and obtain the atma because it was stupid to spend the cruor on at the time?
So by not picking up the atma you don't get credit for the kill? I guess sometimes people forget that things other than abyssea exist but this one is a no-brainer.
Sure since atma are tracked and give points now, everyone will go obtain everything they can get their hands on, but who is to say the new SoA expansion NM's won't be worth value in weight. So are we to say: "Oh well... you can't get an atma for it in abyssea so we can't add an achievement for that kill".
By Zackan 2013-02-20 23:44:59
By tracking combat skills into the 99 point calculations, and by allowing the tracking of 75 80 85 90 95 99 99II on empy/relic/mythic with proper scaling... the achievement system will go from who cares to actually a fairly accurate assessment of ones own character. Very little room for exploitation.
By adding things like dring, ebisu and rare items.
By adding maybe proof of kills of Absolute Virtue, Pand. Warden, and other HNM/kings via title as maybe suggested in OP could also prove interesting (Though this would have been nice 4-5 years ago compared to now, unless they add more HNM type kinds to SoA which would be nice.)
In regards to that last paragraph... They are already now tracked. It is called Atma. Correct but those KI's are pulled from the abyssea tab. Not the titles, temporary, or permanent which is why I stated 1 post prior that the ability should already exist considering it can already do merits and similar.
I'm not sure what atma have to do with titles though from kings/HNM or what I was talking about. It has everything to do with it
ffxiclopedia.org->Atma->Synthetic Atma->Visions Synthetic Atmas
What happens if you didn't go into abyssea and obtain the atma because it was stupid to spend the cruor on at the time?
So by not picking up the atma you don't get credit for the kill? I guess sometimes people forget that things other than abyssea exist but this one is a no brainer.
Wow your complaining about 1-2k worth of cruor? Go do some VW lol...
Siren.Calnus
サーバ: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 796
By Siren.Calnus 2013-02-20 23:47:31
Read the rest of my post. So if they don't add new atma for any future HNM/Ground king, what then? There is much more to this game than abyssea you know.
Tracking NM kills by title is more reliable than if you have the atma for it.
By Zackan 2013-02-20 23:51:11
Read the rest of my post. So if they don't add new atma for any future HNM/Ground king? There is much more to this game than abyssea you know. Yep. That's why I collect Atmacite as well.
lol
But they should add atma for future missions/hnms/crafts/
I wouldn't be opposed if points were added specifically for titles. Just saying thats double dipping right now, not that I am complaining. For instance For killing AV I would get points for title + atma.
By Zackan 2013-02-20 23:52:55
Tracking NM kills by title is more reliable than if you have the atma for it.
Actually not true.
Something could happen where GW doesnt track your title before it falls off the list of titles. Now you have to go to the bard and get it again to fix it.
Atma.. If you have the title but not the atma.. You are just lazy.
Siren.Calnus
サーバ: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 796
By Siren.Calnus 2013-02-20 23:56:23
I didn't collect trash atma because before the invention of infusing the last set, or picking from a few recent... I didn't feel like cycling through 50 pages of atma looking for my ***.
Now that they give FFXIAH points everyone will flock to get everything now anyway and since it poses no threat to your recent lists it should be fine. While I understand your view of double dipping on a few key atma such as AV or PW, They don't give many points to begin with and technically the kill itself and the atma are two different things. You are only able to BUY the atma BECAUSE you killed it.
This is even assuming that the OP hinted at this as a possible tracking method which honestly I would be against anyway. As mentioned this would be something more worthwhile 4-5 years ago when killing HNM mattered.
Siren.Calnus
サーバ: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 796
By Siren.Calnus 2013-02-20 23:57:09
Tracking NM kills by title is more reliable than if you have the atma for it.
Actually not true.
Something could happen where GW doesnt track your title before it falls off the list of titles. Now you have to go to the bard and get it again to fix it.
Atma.. If you have the title but not the atma.. You are just lazy. GW now updates your titles in real time. Unless you manage to change titles several times in under 5 minutes that's no longer an issue.
By Zackan 2013-02-21 00:02:29
Tracking NM kills by title is more reliable than if you have the atma for it.
Actually not true.
Something could happen where GW doesnt track your title before it falls off the list of titles. Now you have to go to the bard and get it again to fix it.
Atma.. If you have the title but not the atma.. You are just lazy. GW now updates your titles in real time. Unless you manage to change titles several times in under 5 minutes that's no longer an issue. That what the recent list of equipped atma is for. Anyway to each their own. I liked having that 50 pages of atmas to cycle through, makes me feel accomplished.
Anyway.. The real question is this. How much should titles be worth? By you saying atmas shouldn't be enough to make it count.. You are implying that these titles are worth more than 50 points a piece. I believe 50 points is plenty.
AV and PW are the 2 'hardest' AV just needs a Zerg hit with PD .(or doesn't even need this anymore at 99) PW is just as easy. 'hardest' part is building the pop.
Siren.Calnus
サーバ: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 796
By Siren.Calnus 2013-02-21 00:10:36
I never said they shouldn't be enough to count. Atma are currently worth 50 points each period which is next to nothing which is fine. Nothing in this game is technically hard enough anymore to warrant a tracking of killed NM's for points. As mentioned several times this would have been a nice feature in 2004-2007 maybe at most.
I have the mentality of pre-abyssea and the view that new HNM/king most likely won't give new atma. The only thing I can see them adding to abyssea is the empyrean gear for the two new jobs maybe.
Why waste time coding a system that is limited to abyssea content and nothing for the future.
A titled based tracking system for kills is the only logical solution. It's easy and it has always worked. That is why you can now show Captain on your rank.
I don't know what was meant by the OP when stating titles as a possible future addition to achievements. This is only my educated guess.
By Zackan 2013-02-21 00:16:22
I never said they shouldn't be enough to count. Atma are currently worth 50 points each period which is next to nothing which is fine. Nothing in this game is technically hard enough anymore to warrant a tracking of killed NM's for points. As mentioned several times this would have been a nice feature in 2004-2007 maybe at most.
I have the mentality of pre-abyssea and the view that new HNM/king most likely won't give new atma. The only thing I can see them adding to abyssea is the empyrean gear for the two new jobs maybe.
Why waste time coding a system that is limited to abyssea content and nothing for the future.
A titled based tracking system for kills is the only logical solution. It's easy and it has always worked. That is why you can now show Captain on your rank.
I don't know what was meant by the OP when stating titles. This is only my educated guess.
Ok, I agree. But... There is no need to do more work into than is needed. Only track New NM's. Don't track NM's that are tracked via Atma. Afaik, I don't see being able to just create a blanket tracking system. You would have to add each NM separately.. 50 points is plenty per NM kill. therefore no need to track those that you are given atma for.
Now, yes, you may want to put in future NM"s
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He is probably talking about HNM's like we are talking about. I am just trying to point out that for the most part it is unneeded(unless he is doing a blanket bonus for ALL titles, to include simple quests and stuff). For NM's that you get atma unless it is decided they should be worth more than 50 points each... you do not want to add them.
Siren.Calnus
サーバ: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 796
By Siren.Calnus 2013-02-21 00:19:16
Give me achievement points for killing bubbley bernie and call it a night Scragg.
[+]
サーバ: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 411
By Siren.Mcclane 2013-02-21 00:22:18
Give me achievement points for killing bubbley bernie and call it a night Scragg.
From page 1:
You got beat like a red headed step-child
Siren.Calnus
サーバ: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 796
By Siren.Calnus 2013-02-21 00:25:04
Give me achievement points for killing bubbley bernie and call it a night Scragg.
From page 1:
You got beat like a red headed step-child ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
well. ***.
 Ragnarok.Vitaru
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 255
By Ragnarok.Vitaru 2013-02-21 00:28:55
That's great thanks everyone who worked on that,
maybe next step would be including weapon/magic skill levels to really, and maybe next to make it show next to the job level, so a lvl99 job would actually have a meaning
Ragnarok.Sekundes
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4189
By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2013-02-21 01:15:59
The next logical step is of course to have Guildwork sync with k-parser so we can feed e-peen directly!
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 12
By Fenrir.Lecureuil 2013-02-21 01:43:03
I think the thing that strikes me as most odd is that this gives a partial advantage to people who spend their merits in the most expensive manner. For example, with the upcoming rework to merit WS, it'll be much more feasible to spread your merits out in that category. For one, I plan on going 5/5 on Shoha, and then maybe 5/5 in Resolution, and spreading the remaining room on some 1/5s.
Granted, with that setup, I only "lose" a potential 50 merits spent, or 1850 points. But I guess it could add up if you count job-specific merits and HP/MP merits.
I mean, its not a big deal. It's just kind of a conceptual gripe for penalizing players for meriting in broader (more utilitarian?) fashion.
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Fenrir.Jinjo
VIP
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2269
By Fenrir.Jinjo 2013-02-21 02:01:14
At the same time, it's also rewarding players for actually putting in more work. It's not as though someone is going to optimize their merits for achievement points (I'm probably wrong, but lets be serious here - anyone who does that really needs something better to do); it's more-so displaying effort that you put into your character that others may not have.
To be fair, I used to insist on maxing out an option if it was going to be merited at all because non-blue numbers bothered me. So I suppose there may be a few of those.. But I suppose that's when it's important to remember that the ranking system is for fun, not for srs.
In a similar sense, it takes more gil to 99 an Empyrean weapon than to make a relic, so that could technically be seen in the same light, with the only difference being the lack of a category cap on the weapons you own.
Honestly, just do what works for you and then if you want to push your rank further, do it with respect to those parameters rather than in spite of. You have countless options available to you.
[+]
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 12
By Fenrir.Lecureuil 2013-02-21 02:44:44
I wasn't really saying that from an "I want moar rank" perspective, just from a "let's look at what this system entails" perspective. I used my own example with WS merits because that's what came to mind initially, but not because I'm in any way bummed about loss of 1850 potential points.
The weapon analogue is a little misleading, because, as I think you point out, there is nothing stopping a person from making and maxing all relics, mythics, and empyreans (as you seem to be on the way to showing us :P), thus reaping the full benefit. The conceptual problem is this: suppose you do end up with every available other avenue maxed, and so does someone else. The deciding factor then is how you spend your merits. If you made different choices that resulted in you spending less overall than the other, he takes #1 in an undeserved fashion. Who is to say that one method of spending merits is better than the other, assuming you made intelligent choices?
Not that at that point it would matter at all. >< Like you said, for fun and not srs.
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Lakshmi.Antonios
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 493
By Lakshmi.Antonios 2013-02-21 03:31:17
wish there was a way for xbox users to have access to this, w/o having to go on a pc and link up
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 89
By Shiva.Karichan 2013-02-21 04:14:53
I think the thing that strikes me as most odd is that this gives a partial advantage to people who spend their merits in the most expensive manner. For example, with the upcoming rework to merit WS, it'll be much more feasible to spread your merits out in that category. For one, I plan on going 5/5 on Shoha, and then maybe 5/5 in Resolution, and spreading the remaining room on some 1/5s.
Granted, with that setup, I only "lose" a potential 50 merits spent, or 1850 points. But I guess it could add up if you count job-specific merits and HP/MP merits.
I mean, its not a big deal. It's just kind of a conceptual gripe for penalizing players for meriting in broader (more utilitarian?) fashion. I didn't even think about that. Maybe they should base it on amount of things meritted rather than exp per merit spent.
Phoenix.Morier
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 898
By Phoenix.Morier 2013-02-21 07:55:24
Again people that play 100% legit are screwed because SE can't get their ***straight. Very sad.
Edited for clarification for the simple minded militant 3rd party folks.
 Lakshmi.ByrthVIP
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6137
By Lakshmi.Byrth 2013-02-21 08:05:20
Again people that play 100% legit are screwed. Very sad.
Maybe they wouldn't be if SE had updated Linkshell Community within the last (two?) year(s). As it is, SE hasn't so the LS community has no data for level 99 equipment and is fairly outdated. Guildwork is a free alternative that's more useful and comprehensive than the LS community could ever have dreamed of being.
And come on, 100% legit? Who gives two shits? The fact that you tolerate a shitty interface and are generally worse for it is pretty much your own fault at this point.
Phoenix.Morier
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 898
By Phoenix.Morier 2013-02-21 08:08:17
Again people that play 100% legit are screwed. Very sad.
Maybe they wouldn't be if SE had updated Linkshell Community within the last (two?) year(s). As it is, SE hasn't so the LS community has no data for level 99 equipment and is fairly outdated. Guildwork is a free alternative that's more useful and comprehensive than the LS community could ever have dreamed of being.
And come on, 100% legit? Who gives two shits? The fact that you tolerate a shitty interface and are generally worse for it is pretty much your own fault at this point. W/e makes you feel better about breaking TOS. The fact I don't have to have a 3rd party crutch to function makes me better not worse. You sure are defensive and took it to a HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE level.
 Valefor.Sehachan
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-02-21 08:10:27
QQ everyone's a cheater but me.
Phoenix.Morier
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 898
By Phoenix.Morier 2013-02-21 08:14:29
QQ everyone's a cheater but me. Another defensive cheater. I assumed anyone with a brain would know the ls community site is the screwer, but I guess I give people too much credit. I will just have to spell every single detail out for the slower folks. Maybe I need to make a 3rd party app for you to understand.
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サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2767
By Odin.Tsuneo 2013-02-21 08:20:22
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Phoenix.Morier
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 898
By Phoenix.Morier 2013-02-21 08:21:28
Clever. Another person that can't read.
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2767
By Odin.Tsuneo 2013-02-21 08:23:34
Hey, I'm not the one who derailed the thread with some crybaby ***.
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Phoenix.Morier
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 898
By Phoenix.Morier 2013-02-21 08:25:50
Hey, I'm not the one who derailed with some crybaby ***. Yet here you are crying because someone feels a way you do not. God forbid someone does not like everything you do. I am allowed a voice also. I do not see why me not being happy with ls community hurts you so.You have tissues, use a few.
Ragnarok.Sekundes
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4189
By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2013-02-21 08:27:02
Again people that play 100% legit are screwed. Very sad.
Maybe they wouldn't be if SE had updated Linkshell Community within the last (two?) year(s). As it is, SE hasn't so the LS community has no data for level 99 equipment and is fairly outdated. Guildwork is a free alternative that's more useful and comprehensive than the LS community could ever have dreamed of being.
And come on, 100% legit? Who gives two shits? The fact that you tolerate a shitty interface and are generally worse for it is pretty much your own fault at this point. W/e makes you feel better about breaking TOS. The fact I don't have to have a 3rd party crutch to function makes me better not worse. You sure are defensive and took it to a HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE level.
There have been many arguments on both sides, they've all been said and beaten to death. Simple fact, no one cares if you want to play "100% Legit" but I'm not sure why you care about a ranking on a 3rd pt site if being legit is so important to you.
Guildwork is sending FFXIAH.com new data for Guildwork Plugin users. Here is the installation guide.
Merits
Merits will be tracked automatically. You will still be able to enter merits in manually. Achievement points will be given based on EXP using the same formula I do for jobs. Each exp point gained is 0.0037 achievement points. Don't ask how I can up with that number. Each merit point is 10,000 exp, so that is 10000*0.0037 = 37. Keep in mind, manually entered merits will be skipped entirely from the tally.
http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Fenrir/Jinjo#merits
Key Items
Atma and Abyssite listing will now update automatically. I give a base achievement point value of 50 per. Again, manual entry will be skipped from point tally. I may also do something else with key items. For example, show you what maps you have and don't have.
http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Fenrir/Jinjo#atma
http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Fenrir/Jinjo#abyssite
Linkshells
I'm also getting character linkshells which would obviously help keeping your linkshell lists current. It can potentially be used to find your profile on the linkshell community automatically. I still haven't processed this data.
Achievement Points
You will still need to have your character linked to a Linkshell Community Profile and have ALL sections visible to public to be tallied. I plan on adding points to upgraded relics, other key items, titles, and possible notable item obtainment... like Ebisu Fishing Rod :))))) If you have an suggestions, you can post.
All achievement points are subject to change.
I updated the achievement tab to reflect additions:
http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Fenrir/Jinjo#achievements
If you have any issues, send me a PM. I noticed I might have AGI and INT transposed on Merits.
If someone has a write up for Xbox and PS2 players for the quickest/cheapest way to get FFXI+Windower+Guildwork up and running on a PC. Let me know, and I will sticky it.
Big Thanks to Stanislav@Guildwork and Aureus@Windower.
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