Endeavoring To Awaken --A Guide To Rune Fencer

Because you're looking at the wrong stats. Acc/atk don't matter on a tanking body, and if you're referring to the above mention of using it in a melee set, I think it's safe to say neither is a very good melee piece. Evasion doesn't matter either.

Empy: Def+12 INT+2 MND+6 MDB+3 Set:Occ.Absorb+1%, Converts phys dmg to mp, Enmity Retention

AF: HP+75 MEva+3 Refresh+3

As for the converts dmg to MP, there's no way you're getting more out of that than the 3 Refresh. I tried to use it in V25 Arebati for example to help enmity retention, and due to casting Shell5 on everyone at the start I had big MP problems. You don't really take physical damage until halfway through the fight so I wasn't getting anything back early on and I didn't have enough MP to keep doing Flash+Foil. The Refresh+3 on AF body was way better.

As for enmity retention, I ended up just continuing to use it for the whole fight rather than try to swap to Empy partway through once I started taking damage. Even taking heavy damage from Arebati near the end, by far the most damage I've taken on RUN in a long time, I still never once lost hate to the RNG in any of our runs.

I just don't find the enmity retention to be necessary, and like I said I find the MP recovery to be inferior. RUN should not be taking enough damage to make either of these stats particularly valuable.

So really that just leaves the 3 MDB and the 1% set bonus as the only real selling points. To me, they just aren't a very big appeal compared to a constant 3 refresh and 75 more HP.

HP+/- depends on too many factors to look at one piece, you want consistency more than anything else.

Refresh has many solutions, I keep my AF body around for the same reason but its situational.

The Refresh+3 is certainly a stat and if you're running out of MP in a fight you can put it on, for sure, but you said


and I think it should still be used it any set where you aren't constantly running out of MP. If you're being full dispelled constantly and having to re-apply shell V a lot, sure. I would argue there are a lot of other situations where you aren't doing that and your 7 mp/tic from self-refresh should be more than sufficient, or you could swap in a ring or some less consequential piece of gear for a little refresh if you need it. In a lot of situations you can get a Refresh III from a RDM, or a Ballad from a BRD, or Devotion from WHM, or any number of other solutions to MP problems, if any. I can probably count a single hand the number of times I've run out of MP on RUN, though admittedly I've never done Arebati on it.

I'm not saying it's the end-all-be-all body, but certainly not "don't put it in any of your sets except macc WS" level.

Why are you prebuffing Shell and wasting all that MP? In a ranger strat you're in huge trouble if you're in a situation where anyone but you is taking magic damage (and the 3% difference between IV and V isn't going to change the outcome, whether you survive or not), and in a melee strat everyone should be in plenty of MDT to cap without it (either with Shell IV or even no shell if you're getting dispelled).

When I did Arebati, I had absolutely zero MP issues with Empy body even when casting foil and flash on cooldown, and the absorb reduced a notable amount of healing I needed because it was often 500+. I even forgot to get MP Sigil that run, so I wasn't even getting as much refresh as I could have been.

I personally basically always use Empy +3 body in my normal set unless I'm DDing. Even when facing physical damage, where Nyame has more defense, I almost always have a Minne or two when physical damage is a real danger, which makes the relative difference in defense much smaller, and absorbs are extremely nice.

If I give up Refresh+3 I expect to gain something for it and 1% absorb ain't it. Especially since, and yes this is situational for me, but I do need that 75 HP or I'd want to get it elsewhere. You'd rather swap in "some less consequential piece of gear" but there is no less consequential piece of gear or combo of gears to get +3 refresh or even +2, even counting DM augments.

This is my main point: People on this forum talk about it with reverence like it's the top tanking body every RUN should be striving for. I'm not trying to rain on peoples' parade, if you like the body then use it, there's nothing wrong with it. But I don't want readers who don't know better to see these posts and think "gee whiz I sure must get that empy body, they say it's amazing!" If you've got AF body then you already have amazing. Unless you're running out of things to spend gallimaufry on (and yes, many of us are getting to that point), spend it elsewhere.

Empy body is a "sure why not" body, not a "this is amazing" body. I know all of you agree, even though you instantly jump to its defense like you were personally attacked when I call it sub-optimal. I think there's an echo chamber effect going on here where people think it's awesome because people think it's awesome. I've yet to see justification, it all just seems kneejerk.

And I'd instead argue AF body should be used in any set where you aren't constantly losing hate from taking too much damage. You talk about how refresh is rarely needed and I agree, but I talked about how what Empy gives you isn't doing anything and I've yet to see any debate on that front.

What are you more likely to do, run out of MP, or lose hate from taking damage? I can't remember the last time hate loss from damage was even a factor for my ability to hold hate on RUN. I can, however, remember times where I ran out of MP. To me the choice is obvious.

This is a good discussion and will be a great resource for new RUNs to read and make a decision of their own. Here's how I like to compare pieces of gear: think of the difference between the two pieces of gear as a free buff you can get with an enchantment, or signet or something, and decide if you would take it.

If you could choose when you get sanction to take:
Def-12 INT-2 MND-6 MDB-3 1% chance to take 500 damage, 8% of physical damage taken drains MP, Enmity Retention-14, HP+75, refresh+3, meva+3

Would you pick up that buff every time you go to tank something on RUN?

And sorry, in case the answer wasn't obvious for me, yes I would absolutely take the reverse buff. I would gladly give up 75 max HP, 3 meva, and 3 refresh for all the other stuff. I would pick it up twice if I could.

Is Lion/Aettir generally considered usable in segs/gaol/sortie? I am working on coalitions and Epeo would be at least 3 months out but I am itching to play RUN these days. Is there something else I should invest into in the meantime weapon wise(doubt it).

Neither ever happen to me, and I value the 1% absorb and 3 MDB much more than the HP on the AF body. I didn't even really use the AF body in my main set before Empy +2/3 came out, preferring Nyame, and since then both of the AF body's benefits have been made less significant (the HP from master levels, and the Refresh from 2 more Refresh potency on Empy +3 head).

I came to this conclusion that the body is great (not amazing, that would be limited to the legs and feet) completely on my own after seeing how the absorb works. Just because you're outnumbered doesn't mean you're justified to call the opposing viewpoint an echo chamber, or that the conclusions other people have made after testing out the piece and knowing how the stats work is a kneejerk reaction.

Sortie? Totally.
I'd dare to say you won't even notice the difference, some could argue Aettir can be situationally better.
I'm talking about magic/ranged setups btw.

Gaol? I don't know, which dangerous/hard Gaol NMs use physical damage as their primary source of damage? Other than those, Aettir should be pretty viable.

Segs? Please no.
In general you want a PLD tank for segs. I mean RUN is viable, but it's an inferior choice.
If you wanna keep the amount of segs you get meaningful, that means you gonna have to pull a lot of stuff and fast, and that's where Epeolatry would make a noticeable difference compared to other options.
But still inferior to a decent (not even awesome) PLD, if you ask me.

To add on the tanking body options:
I've been a long-time proud member of the AF+3 party. I then reluctantly swapped to Nyame body in some sets.
Now I'm using Empy+3 in most of my sets.
Why? Because of the higher meva/mdb and the set bonus. When you have such such great meva and capped on DT, the absorb bonus (while clearly very small) does make a difference.
The enmity retention and physical>MP conversion are just secondary (but welcome) boons to me.

The refresh+3 is quite a small boon these days, and if you really want you can have multiple idle (non tanking sets), one of which focused on Refresh with AF+3 body.
As a matter of fact, I do have such a set that I use while walking around etc.
AF+3 was also nice for the Ele+ to all elements, which adds up to proc the debuff resists, but you can get those in additional slots these days (neck, waist, feet) according to the current situation and available options.

Perhaps I'm reading this page wrong: https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Resist

but my reading of it is that 1 elemental resistance = 1 meva, so even with the +39 all resistance on the body, that's only just making up for the lack of straight meva. It could be argued that having > 0 meva allows you to get 1/8 resistances on nukes (not status ailments), but the empy feet already provide > 0.

There was some testing not too long ago that showed having at least 1 ele resist opens up 1/8th resist or something along those lines, likewise -ele resist opens up getting the max effect, im sure im getting this wrong but point is having a piece that just gives you all eles has its additional perks

Yep I was talking about what Nariont mentioned.
Even if you have over9000 Meva, you need at least +1 in a specific element to open up the resist rate against debuffs. It's a separate mechanic (one might wonder why they had to put complicated stuff like this in their math, but then again this is part of what makes FFXI so fascinating to me).

This is one of the reasons why body was so attractive, despite lower Meva compared to other options (the Meva itself was decent anyway, especially back then)

Am I taking crazy pills, are we talking about gearing from 6 months ago, or are you guys not using empy+3 feet?

I think there's a misunderstanding. Can't say for the others but I can speak for myself at least.
I was referring the ele +X on the AF body as one of the main attractive aspects when it first launched, as a mean to say how to my eyes my beloved AF+3 body is not as attractive as it used to be.

I personally use Empy+3 feet in my unengaged sets, but Turms+1 in my engaged sets.
The Inquartata+5 is way too attractive for any content where parry can make a difference (especially in conjunction with Turms+1 hands).
When you're not parrying (unengaged) or parry is not effective, then of course Empy+3 feet is what I'd suggest.

People use empy +3 body l?! O.o

Anybody mind sharing their enmity set(s) on RUN?

ItemSet 355629

Don't you lose a bit too much HP with that set, Kingkitt? Also I noticed you're using an enmity strap as well.
Do you keep it up 100% of the time? Swap it during enmity action? Or something else?

Base HP in engaged tanking set is 3402, that enmity set is 3120. Easy HP swaps would be augmented Unmoving Collar +1, and can swap out an earring for Tuisto or Odnowa +1.

Grip is just on a toggle for "max" enmity if i'm doing strictly tanking things, otherwise i'm in Refined +1. But depending on the what i'm doing i'll swap main/sub slots anyways.

I'd say easy would be Platinum Moogle Belt and at that point you can equip something like Supershear Ring in place of Moonlight (or keep monlight for the DT/HP and accept the 3 enmity loss from Kasiri, I guess?)

I'm sure it's been asked multiple times but could you post your RUN lua's? I've tried using the ones from BGWiki but they just aren't fitting my needs.

Thanks in advance!

This my lua fully code

https://github.com/aragan/ffxi-lua-all-job/blob/main/RUN.lua