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Sigurd's Descendants: The Art of Dragon Slaying.
Lakshmi.Buukki
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2024-09-13 23:54:25
Ok I havent expected that...
It shows 25600 dps, just 1k behind Kraken >.>
Have you updated the program / files? There have been numerous changes over the last few months.
Thx for that info. I havent been aware about that huge delay fix for Dual Wield!
Rechecked Naegling sets and results are kinda shocking!
Naegling/Kraken DPS: 18717
Naegling/Ternion+1: 17052
Naegling/Fencer: 18812
So looks like you don't need Kraken Club at all, especially for Segments, because /war for Fencer also offers access to Judgment, which is by far the best option for anything that requires blunt damage. Fencer TP set is also much more straight forward (unless you really have access to Nyame path A) and can be used against high evasion stuff too, since there is no non ilvl weapon involved.
I didn't have numbers to back this up because I'm not really into spreadsheets and Sims. but I'm positive I knew Fencer DRG was absurdly powerful in Segs and a top DD at least two years ago. I am little surprised it's ahead of Kclub.
I remember distinctly watching Bippin's DPS as DRG/WARand was blown away by his damage, and also how I learned about judgement (which is when I started bringing a club on Ninja/war) being accessible. That's why I said what I did to K123 the other day. People just assume you require a Kclub (albeit is incredibly fun), I've personally witnessed DRG/war glory in Segs. But that shouldn't really be surprising anyways, DRG is usually at the top of parse in Bumba.
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By SimonSes 2024-09-14 05:00:07
DRK is objectively worse than DRG WAR SAM. Pug or not doesn't change this fact. DRK DRK can probably full clear but then so could NIN NIN.
I'm not sure if NIN is a good example to ironically mock it as bad for Segments. Naegling build on NIN (17500 dps with the same buffs with above DRG sims) is only inferior to DRG and RNG/nin with kclub. Then you have Judgment build, which has DPS on par with DRG's judgment and you also have hybrids, that can annihilate some families.
By Pantafernando 2024-09-14 05:08:10
What would be the most used setup for efficiency seg farming?
Im sure there must be some convergence if we leave aside the sentimental attachment for a specific job.
By Seun 2024-09-14 05:32:35
The best group composition clears with 7 minutes remaining. The 10th best group composition finishes about 30 seconds behind them. Is 30 seconds that meaningful when you're still waiting 20 hours for key item recharge?
By Dodik 2024-09-14 05:33:06
Two Drgs, a club, and a thirst for murdering pups.
By K123 2024-09-14 07:10:28
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
You complain that you can't find people who will let you play the way you want for your $12.99, but then turn around and tell people how to play (they can't play DRK) with their $12.99. You are a victim of the meta while also perpetuating the meta by telling people they shouldn't play in sub-optimal ways. Except doing BRD songs wrong (but that's another level of meta-ception)
I have literally never complained about not being able to play my way for my $12.99. I happily only play meta jobs in pug.
My comment, quite clearly in the English language was talking about someone else being able to play the war they wanted. I genuinely struggle to understand how you have confused the context so much.
I do not advocate taking sub optimal jobs at all. I played SAM on my one char sometimes because it was the best DD on it but even though you can full clear with WAR SAM or SAM SAM it's nowhere near as reliable.
By K123 2024-09-14 07:12:12
DRK is objectively worse than DRG WAR SAM. Pug or not doesn't change this fact. DRK DRK can probably full clear but then so could NIN NIN.
I'm not sure if NIN is a good example to ironically mock it as bad for Segments. Naegling build on NIN (17500 dps with the same buffs with above DRG sims) is only inferior to DRG and RNG/nin with kclub. Then you have Judgment build, which has DPS on par with DRG's judgment and you also have hybrids, that can annihilate some families. I know NIN is good. Better than DRK, maybe better than SAM tbh but they are also rare to find.
By K123 2024-09-14 07:14:24
The best group composition clears with 7 minutes remaining. The 10th best group composition finishes about 30 seconds behind them. Is 30 seconds that meaningful when you're still waiting 20 hours for key item recharge? No group consistently wins with the same clear time. It depends on mob groups you get, etc. There's really no point dragging out runs 7 mins more even by your numbers though, for something so painfully mundane and repetitive.
By K123 2024-09-14 07:15:52
What would be the most used setup for efficiency seg farming?
Im sure there must be some convergence if we leave aside the sentimental attachment for a specific job. BRD SCH COR WAR WAR WAR IMO. JPs basically only go with this set up on asura. They never settle for WHM.
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サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 179
By Phoenix.Gavroches 2024-09-14 07:40:24
WHM BRD COR WAR WAR BLU is the most efficient, been clearing C for a long time (like before sortie/empy +2 with my old group) with very often 2+ min left, BLU can literally solo eva clear half of floor 1-2. BLU can tank any halo if need be, the regular group just DD aggro as they more forward, no need of pulling just let ***agro and keep moving.we did WHM for the occasional death/arise huge time saver. Tank group can clear as well, many ways to skin the thing as they say in Springfield…
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By Taint 2024-09-14 07:58:08
Judgement with what club?
If the mob is resistant to slashing wouldn't you just use a PA?
Phoenix.Iocus
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1611
By Phoenix.Iocus 2024-09-14 08:14:47
Judgment comes into play for undead. Skeles and ghosts. (Quatrubs are 2 WS after the first floor and weapon doesn't really matter.)
You can use a Staff with fullswing at high tp to one shot, but it's clearly worse damage to tp than using a polearm or sword against other mobs. So the play experience stands out as staff is 'the bad weapon' because you're having to slow down for particular mobs. Judgment on /war smooths that out.
If you go /dnc and you know you're about to walk into undead, you can haste samba before you finish your current pack and before you switch weapons to Staff. You do the same thing for Polearm if you go /dnc, it's just noticeably worse because anything you use a polearm on is going to die fast and anything you use a staff on might die eventually. If you don't have enough tp to samba before an undead pack then you run into a scenario where you're killing 2~3 of the mobs vs 4+ on other packs.
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By Seun 2024-09-14 08:37:28
The best group composition clears with 7 minutes remaining. The 10th best group composition finishes about 30 seconds behind them. Is 30 seconds that meaningful when you're still waiting 20 hours for key item recharge? No group consistently wins with the same clear time. It depends on mob groups you get, etc.
At a given time, not every time. If you were comparing groups for efficiency, you would remove the variables. Your group against my group against their group; against the same set(s) of mob types, placements, ect.
The ability to play various jobs is what lured me here and what has kept me around. It's not changing the fundamentals of what you're doing in content, but I find it does break the monotony. Especially in content that people run consistently.
Phoenix.Iocus
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1611
By Phoenix.Iocus 2024-09-14 08:58:19
Ok I havent expected that...
It shows 25600 dps, just 1k behind Kraken >.>
Have you updated the program / files? There have been numerous changes over the last few months.
Thx for that info. I havent been aware about that huge delay fix for Dual Wield!
Rechecked Naegling sets and results are kinda shocking!
Naegling/Kraken DPS: 18717
Naegling/Ternion+1: 17052
Naegling/Fencer: 18812
So looks like you don't need Kraken Club at all, especially for Segments, because /war for Fencer also offers access to Judgment, which is by far the best option for anything that requires blunt damage. Fencer TP set is also much more straight forward (unless you really have access to Nyame path A) and can be used against high evasion stuff too, since there is no non ilvl weapon involved.
So that's my Kraken set and the DT version just swaps the Empy legs for floors 3+ on tougher mobs.
ItemSet 396834
Head is A path, cape is store tp, and feet are 8 store tp and 8 dex and 20 acc.
Would you be willing to run the numbers on that with your same setup so we can keep that controlled?
By SimonSes 2024-09-14 10:39:19
So that's my Kraken set and the DT version just swaps the Empy legs for floors 3+ on tougher mobs.
DRG Krak
Head is A path, cape is store tp, and feet are 8 store tp and 8 dex and 20 acc.
Would you be willing to run the numbers on that with your same setup so we can keep that controlled?
~18420
Lakshmi.Buukki
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2024-09-14 10:44:26
Judgement with what club?
If the mob is resistant to slashing wouldn't you just use a PA?
Mafic cudgel. It doesn't matter how weak the club is because DRG is so absurdly powerful and skeletons take extra blunt damage inn addition to being vulnerable to it in C, it's far better than polearm, since skeletons resist piercing natively
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Phoenix.Iocus
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1611
By Phoenix.Iocus 2024-09-14 10:54:28
So that's my Kraken set and the DT version just swaps the Empy legs for floors 3+ on tougher mobs.
DRG Krak
Head is A path, cape is store tp, and feet are 8 store tp and 8 dex and 20 acc.
Would you be willing to run the numbers on that with your same setup so we can keep that controlled?
~18420 Do you have a set that does beat it with Nyame A path head only, or it is more pieces of A path that put it over?
Lakshmi.Buukki
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2024-09-14 10:59:37
DRK is objectively worse than DRG WAR SAM. Pug or not doesn't change this fact. DRK DRK can probably full clear but then so could NIN NIN.
I'm not sure if NIN is a good example to ironically mock it as bad for Segments. Naegling build on NIN (17500 dps with the same buffs with above DRG sims) is only inferior to DRG and RNG/nin with kclub. Then you have Judgment build, which has DPS on par with DRG's judgment and you also have hybrids, that can annihilate some families. I know NIN is good. Better than DRK, maybe better than SAM tbh but they are also rare to find.
Not really rare as much as the meta has convinced too many people of a certain party comp. Yes, WAR is the ideal job for Segs for sure, with strong fencer/Savage Blade, Warcry and Mighty Strikes for c4 Halo, but NIN is still extremely competitive, and also very safe with shadows. It's actually better than any other DD from a defensive standpoint if you're worried about your healer's ability to keep people alive. The problem isn't finding one, it's people aren't asking for (or allowing) one in their primary groups. Hell, I used to run with Geriond on DRK and he would routinely parse top with other Warriors in the group. Most of the DD jobs are quite close in terms of DPS in Segs that it honestly does not matter which of the few you choose
The meta mindset has people believing it's not worth it to be job diverse because it's sub optimal, when in reality, seg farming is the most casual and non elite daily content that has ever existed. It's literally killing trash monsters for 30 minutes for points you'll probably not even spend in 20 hours. Totally overblown obsession that's really weird nowadays.
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By K123 2024-09-14 11:02:52
Phoenix.Gavroches said: »WHM BRD COR WAR WAR BLU is the most efficient, been clearing C for a long time (like before sortie/empy +2 with my old group) with very often 2+ min left, BLU can literally solo eva clear half of floor 1-2. BLU can tank any halo if need be, the regular group just DD aggro as they more forward, no need of pulling just let ***agro and keep moving.we did WHM for the occasional death/arise huge time saver. Tank group can clear as well, many ways to skin the thing as they say in Springfield… This is really interesting with the BLU, they're kinda rare too though in my experience.
By SimonSes 2024-09-14 11:12:30
Do you have a set that does beat it with Nyame A path head only, or it is more pieces of A path that put it over?
After adding your boots to sim, the new high for Neagling/Kraken with also path A head is ~19020
It has only different accessories than your set:
vim torque +1 R15
Crepuscular ring
Niqmaddu ring
Almost whole dps difference is in neck. After swapping to DRG+2, dps drops to ~18530
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Lakshmi.Buukki
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2024-09-14 11:17:54
Phoenix.Gavroches said: »WHM BRD COR WAR WAR BLU is the most efficient, been clearing C for a long time (like before sortie/empy +2 with my old group) with very often 2+ min left, BLU can literally solo eva clear half of floor 1-2. BLU can tank any halo if need be, the regular group just DD aggro as they more forward, no need of pulling just let ***agro and keep moving.we did WHM for the occasional death/arise huge time saver. Tank group can clear as well, many ways to skin the thing as they say in Springfield…
Are you talking evasion tank/cruel joke, or just evasion pulling the floor? I've been in JP groups where the BRD just does the evasion tanking/pulling instead, and you bring a third WAR as K123 suggested. The time it takes to round up a group and cruel joke them is about the same or faster with just an extra WAR, though again I don't think that really makes a difference regardless since dead in 1 minute is very good also
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 179
By Phoenix.Gavroches 2024-09-14 11:31:14
Many ways work, but most successful I’ve been involved was BLU evasion pull 1, sleep grab second group bring it to first resleep then CJ. Floor 3 under 10 min. I mean it was stupidly good and rarely seen people talking about it. Yes I have also fully clear with 3 war, pld tank, brd tank… I still have no doubt that the BLU is the best, but maybe my BLU was just someone exceptionally good at it, I don’t play blu (lvl 1, no spell but hey 2 earring +2…).
By K123 2024-09-14 12:09:01
3 WAR lets you keep warcry up 3/5 sets of mobs too basically
By SimonSes 2024-09-14 12:15:37
Phoenix.Gavroches said: »Many ways work, but most successful I’ve been involved was BLU evasion pull 1, sleep grab second group bring it to first resleep then CJ. Floor 3 under 10 min. I mean it was stupidly good and rarely seen people talking about it. Yes I have also fully clear with 3 war, pld tank, brd tank… I still have no doubt that the BLU is the best, but maybe my BLU was just someone exceptionally good at it, I don’t play blu (lvl 1, no spell but hey 2 earring +2…).
This wont always work, because many mobs in C are immune to CJ. Very commonly you don't have two CJable groups close to each other. Also pulling one group at a time is also very slow. By the time you would pull other group and come back to resleep it with first, regular party would already kill all 10 mobs from group one and would kill group two under a minute also. Last but not least, you can only CJ every 5min + one extra time with SP and possibly few more extra from random deal and wild card. So do you mean BLU goes solo other floors while 5 other ppl just do regular killing?
Lakshmi.Buukki
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2024-09-14 15:28:01
Phoenix.Gavroches said: » Floor 3 under 10 min
I'm curious what this means. You clear C3 in under 10 min, or you get to C3 in under 10 min?
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 179
By Phoenix.Gavroches 2024-09-14 20:01:52
So yeah you reach floor 3 by 18-20 min left, BLU is the freelancer here, main group still does their own non-CJ, BLU come and join as he will during cooldown, early RD for sure. I was the WHM, so not specially aware of everything he did, but he for sure just took off at first haste song, floor 3+ he asked for manbo. But at this point in the game guys, you should just have fun of you have one. To me it was amazing as it such a long time ago we did that and we constantly cleared, 7 days a week. He can clear group on floor 2 while you still floor 1, that work too. But also like I said you can clear with so many ways nowadays, 3 DD, tank, brd pull (definitely an Asura thing that one)….
By SimonSes 2024-09-14 20:19:28
Phoenix.Gavroches said: »So yeah you reach floor 3 by 18-20 min left, BLU is the freelancer here, main group still does their own non-CJ, BLU come and join as he will during cooldown, early RD for sure. I was the WHM, so not specially aware of everything he did, but he for sure just took off at first haste song, floor 3+ he asked for manbo. But at this point in the game guys, you should just have fun of you have one. To me it was amazing as it such a long time ago we did that and we constantly cleared, 7 days a week. He can clear group on floor 2 while you still floor 1, that work too. But also like I said you can clear with so many ways nowadays, 3 DD, tank, brd pull (definitely an Asura thing that one)….
I mean, BLU can kill one group of mobs solo faster than with CJ. Just kill one by one and petrify links/aggro. Occultation, Cocoon to mitigate most damage, White wind for emergency heal, Verve to not get interrupted.
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 179
By Phoenix.Gavroches 2024-09-14 20:27:05
Yes blu can be brutally efficient, tizona is a monster weapon and can just be killing his own set. Gonna stop talking about it as it’s a DRG thread, was just a comment about what setup works best for sortie, and I love that setup, all I’m saying. All of you seems to know a lot more than me on blu, so go ahead guys and play with it. Another member was a DRG, he did amazing, just lacked the blunt issue but yeah DRG can do quite right in good hands.
By Veydal1 2024-09-14 20:51:56
I've been running DRG/WAR because I don't have K-club and I like having Berserk for the later floors. Didn't even occur to me that it provides access to Judgement. Good info, thanks.
By SimonSes 2024-09-17 15:49:09
Gae Buide: 3.283 sec to WS (1250TP+)
Gae Buide DSP: 16872
Gae Buide WS median: 69541
I added 30% ODT on first hit for Gae Buide V
Updated DPS: ~17810
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