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Obamas war without congress approval
By Jetackuu 2014-09-15 23:15:16
I'm not arguing facts, nor trying to persuade you. I'm saying atheists mannerism is offensive because you're ignorant with how non-denomination Christians think
If by non-denomination christian you mean you, I'm not ignorant at all about how a delusional person thinks, I just usually recommend them to visit the nearest psych ward for treatment.
I've met plenty of christians, I'm surrounded by them, of all different flavors and by jolly you're a first, and hopefully a last.
But while we're playing the "offensive" card, personally I find the concept that we require a higher power to exist, or that we couldn't possibly perceive such a being is extremely offensive, but I'm not sitting here whining about it, as well I'm an adult. I'm sorry that you have the delusion that somehow you're being persecuted when people are tired of your ***, but get used to it.
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By Odin.Godofgods 2014-09-15 23:16:44
You say you get along with gnostic theists, and yet anytime any mentions being religious you have to be right there calling them stupid.
I have to admit, if nobody brought up religion around me, I'd basically never think of it, but when someone starts attributing easily explainable things to "god", I get a little perturbed. Mostly for the fact that people have worked tirelessly to figure things out, and when you claim that "god did it", it is tantamount to waiting for someone to build a giant construction, then saying "god built it, you didn't do crap".
I'm more annoyed with people injecting religious sentiment into completely secular things like I need them to explain the world to me, or like a religious person has x-ray vision and sees things I could never see.
I mostly have an issue with people resorting to beliefs over facts basically at the start. Or those who try to give credibility to faith healing, mystics, acupuncturists, chiropractors, or other pseudoscience that has little to no credible merit.
Or people who's first reaction to something odd happening being "a ghost did it" or "the place is haunted" instead of trying to figure out what caused something. Door creaked? faulty foundation? lights flickered? poor cycles in your power? etc.
I even personally believe a few things that don't have much if any merit behind them, but I keep those to myself and rarely talk about them, one of which turns out to have had some merit behind it, but is shakey now due to some other evidence, but I'm ok with that.
That's one thing ive always had issues with.
There actually are some ppl out there who have studied religion across the centuries and can actually have an academic discussion on any related topic. Even tho i might think there beliefs are foolish (depending what they personally believe), i can at least respect someone that can hold up an argument academically.
But more often then not we just come across ppl arguing with blind faith. No fact, no evidence, no basic logic... irritates the hell out of me. - The most recent example; i was reading a comment left by a pastor in response to other comments on a bad religion song. (interesting in and of itself almost) He said that If your moral alignment is good and in line with gods, then that alignment is PROOF of gods existence. ... ... ...
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By Jetackuu 2014-09-15 23:18:16
not to mention that you're ignoring the very strong statistical evidence in the generalizations, but the truth is hard for some people to swallow.
Pulling the stats card with me? Risky move, young Padawan. *** I'm a master.
By Jetackuu 2014-09-15 23:19:11
He said that If your moral alignment is good and in line with gods, then that alignment is PROOF of gods existence. ... ... ... I want to have an aneurysm just from reading that.
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-09-15 23:19:29
not to mention that you're ignoring the very strong statistical evidence in the generalizations, but the truth is hard for some people to swallow.
Pulling the stats card with me? Risky move, young Padawan. *** I'm a master.
You're funny. Good luck getting your "statistical evidence" to actually mean anything.
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By Odin.Godofgods 2014-09-15 23:20:07
yea, i had to do a triple take on that on... figured i must have read it wrong... multiple times...
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-09-15 23:21:52
not to mention that you're ignoring the very strong statistical evidence in the generalizations, but the truth is hard for some people to swallow.
Pulling the stats card with me? Risky move, young Padawan. *** I'm a master.
You're funny. Good luck getting your "statistical evidence" to actually mean anything.
Someone once told me that statisticians are basically number mages.
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By Jetackuu 2014-09-15 23:22:00
not to mention that you're ignoring the very strong statistical evidence in the generalizations, but the truth is hard for some people to swallow.
Pulling the stats card with me? Risky move, young Padawan. *** I'm a master.
You're funny. Good luck getting your "statistical evidence" to actually mean anything. 3/5 loldrks like to cut themselves, the other 2 couldn't figure out how to set up macros. (idk, some pointless aimless remark).
By Jetackuu 2014-09-15 23:23:19
not to mention that you're ignoring the very strong statistical evidence in the generalizations, but the truth is hard for some people to swallow.
Pulling the stats card with me? Risky move, young Padawan. *** I'm a master.
You're funny. Good luck getting your "statistical evidence" to actually mean anything. It's just a reference to a really strong correlation, would need time to study and review the methods to claim more-so.
By Kooljack 2014-09-15 23:23:49
"what they've done over the years", see your categorizing people who join a community of believers..
you also believe that because religions have by definition fit underneath the umbrella of cult' that it applies to all religious people.
my offense was with how many times i read religion in aethists posts, and not varing the word up to believers or something else at times. because then you perpetuate that cult like thinking too all religions.
because some religions have screwed up thier ***and made them look cult like you then just said now that it affects everyone else who is religious essentially proving my point about how you view what your talking about. your bias'ed and pig-headed with no intellectual enlightenment about the current state of non-denominational religion.
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-09-15 23:26:49
not to mention that you're ignoring the very strong statistical evidence in the generalizations, but the truth is hard for some people to swallow.
Pulling the stats card with me? Risky move, young Padawan. *** I'm a master.
You're funny. Good luck getting your "statistical evidence" to actually mean anything. It's just a reference to a really strong correlation, would need time to study and review the methods to claim more-so.
Even if the correlation is really there, it proves nothing. "Higher intelligence" does not equal "always correct".
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-09-15 23:27:32
Its about creationists versus evolutionists at this point in the eyes of many. you either believe we're *** monkeys with no solid proof of evolution, or you can believe in something without seeing. how is it that something so amazing as life, came from nothing? for me it is easier to believe there is a higher power then the monkey theory Your understanding of evolution is superficial at best. It'd be more accurate to say it's easier for you to believe in creationist teaching because you don't understand (or don't want to understand) the basic tenets of evolution.
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By Ragnarok.Harpunnik 2014-09-15 23:27:39
Good grief this forum is religion obsessed. I came here looking for lolpics and made the mistake of clicking on this thread, this forum never changes xD
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-09-15 23:29:03
You're biased and pig-headed with no intellectual enlightenment about the current state of non-denominational religion.
1. Sorry, had to point out the spelling errors in your "intellectual" rant.
2. Non-denominational religion? I'd love to hear you explain what that is.
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By Odin.Godofgods 2014-09-15 23:30:04
Quote: They say they're going to pre-board those passengers in need of special assistance. Cripples! Simple honest direct language. There is no shame attached to the word cripple that I can find in any dictionary. No shame attached to it, in fact it's a word used in bible translations. Jesus healed the cripples. Doesn't take seven words to describe that condition. But we don't have any cripples in this country anymore. We have The physically challenged. Is that a grotesque enough evasion for you? How about differently abled. I've heard them called that. Differently abled! You can't even call these people handicapped anymore. They'll say, "Were not handicapped. Were handicapable!" These poor people have been bullshitted by the system into believing that if you change the name of the condition, somehow you'll change the condition. Well, hey cousin, ppsssspptttttt. Doesn't happen. Doesn't happen!!
- George Carlin
seemed applicable..
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By Jetackuu 2014-09-15 23:30:12
"what they've done over the years", see your categorizing people who join a community of believers..
you also believe that because religions have by definition fit underneath the umbrella of cult' that it applies to all religious people.
my offense was with how many times i read religion in aethists posts, and not varing the word up to believers or something else at times. because then you perpetuate that cult like thinking too all religions.
because some religions have screwed up thier ***and made them look cult like you then just said now that it affects everyone else who is religious essentially proving my point about how you view what your talking about. your bias'ed and pig-headed with no intellectual enlightenment about the current state of non-denominational religion.
People are judged by the company they keep, get over it.
As for line#2: No I don't, I explicitly stated otherwise.
Without knowing exactly what you're talking about here, I can't say anything about it, as there's probably 100 different posts with each a different subject.
You keep confusing organized religion with people who have religion, I understand that it's hard for you to separate the things, and yes organized religions are cults.
Regardless if you belong to the particular sect, you're still a christian and all of the negativity associated with that carries with you, regardless of how much you don't want it to, or try for it not to. You cannot separate yourself from it, it's not going to happen.
Jassik said it awhile ago: this is what you're saying;
TL:DR - I don't like being grouped in with other Christians.
well too *** bad, you are.
As for the ad-hominem: lol grow up dude, you're no shining example of any enlightenment yourself, and there's no "current state" it hasn't changed in years, to try to claim that it has, or that it's basically an argument of creationism (which if there's any argument for non-denominational chirstianity: that is definitely not it, as there's several sects and subsects that admit and coexist with evolution).
But go on trying to pretend that you're better than anyone when you're just a mere child who really has no idea.
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By Odin.Godofgods 2014-09-15 23:32:44
Ragnarok.Harpunnik said: »Good grief this forum is religion obsessed. I came here looking for lolpics and made the mistake of clicking on this thread, this forum never changes xD
lolpics? in a thread titled "Obamas war without congress approval"?
he might be a joke, ill give you that. But i would be expecting many lolpics on it..
By Jetackuu 2014-09-15 23:33:30
not to mention that you're ignoring the very strong statistical evidence in the generalizations, but the truth is hard for some people to swallow.
Pulling the stats card with me? Risky move, young Padawan. *** I'm a master.
You're funny. Good luck getting your "statistical evidence" to actually mean anything. It's just a reference to a really strong correlation, would need time to study and review the methods to claim more-so.
Even if the correlation is really there, it proves nothing. "Higher intelligence" does not equal "always correct". Never said it proved anything or was always correct.
By Jetackuu 2014-09-15 23:34:26
Quote: They say they're going to pre-board those passengers in need of special assistance. Cripples! Simple honest direct language. There is no shame attached to the word cripple that I can find in any dictionary. No shame attached to it, in fact it's a word used in bible translations. Jesus healed the cripples. Doesn't take seven words to describe that condition. But we don't have any cripples in this country anymore. We have The physically challenged. Is that a grotesque enough evasion for you? How about differently abled. I've heard them called that. Differently abled! You can't even call these people handicapped anymore. They'll say, "Were not handicapped. Were handicapable!" These poor people have been bullshitted by the system into believing that if you change the name of the condition, somehow you'll change the condition. Well, hey cousin, ppsssspptttttt. Doesn't happen. Doesn't happen!!
- George Carlin
seemed applicable.. very
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-09-15 23:34:48
Its about creationists versus evolutionists at this point in the eyes of many. you either believe we're *** monkeys with no solid proof of evolution, or you can believe in something without seeing. how is it that something so amazing as life, came from nothing? for me it is easier to believe there is a higher power then the monkey theory Your understanding of evolution is superficial at best. It'd be more accurate to say it's easier for you to believe in creationist teaching because you don't understand (or don't want to understand) the basic tenets of evolution.
Obligatory Crocoduck.
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By Odin.Godofgods 2014-09-15 23:35:02
Its about creationists versus evolutionists at this point in the eyes of many. you either believe we're *** monkeys with no solid proof of evolution, or you can believe in something without seeing. how is it that something so amazing as life, came from nothing? for me it is easier to believe there is a higher power then the monkey theory Your understanding of evolution is superficial at best. It'd be more accurate to say it's easier for you to believe in creationist teaching because you don't understand (or don't want to understand) the basic tenets of evolution.
agreeing with pleebo.... ok, time to go to sleep.
By Jetackuu 2014-09-15 23:38:19
Ragnarok.Harpunnik said: »Good grief this forum is religion obsessed. I came here looking for lolpics and made the mistake of clicking on this thread, this forum never changes xD Actually it's changed quite a bit, except for certain particular individuals who think they're persecuted by the mean 'ol atheists.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-09-15 23:39:39
Ragnarok.Harpunnik said: »Good grief this forum is religion obsessed. I came here looking for lolpics and made the mistake of clicking on this thread, this forum never changes xD Actually it's changed quite a bit, except for certain particular individuals who think they're persecuted by the mean 'ol atheists.
A couple millennia of role reversal might change their definition of persecution.
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By Kooljack 2014-09-15 23:40:06
You keep confusing organized religion with people who have religion, I understand that it's hard for you to separate the things, and yes organized religions are cults.
THIS PROVES YOUR IGNORANT thinking in regards to how modern non-denomination Christians view themselves. see you clarified directly what i knew you're already biased opinion on religion really is. connect them directly to cults. you sir are an ***. good day.
and yes organized religions are cults.
and yes organized religions are cults.
and yes organized religions are cults.
and yes organized religions are cults.
and yes organized religions are cults.
and yes organized religions are cults.
By Jetackuu 2014-09-15 23:40:44
Its about creationists versus evolutionists at this point in the eyes of many. you either believe we're *** monkeys with no solid proof of evolution, or you can believe in something without seeing. how is it that something so amazing as life, came from nothing? for me it is easier to believe there is a higher power then the monkey theory Your understanding of evolution is superficial at best. It'd be more accurate to say it's easier for you to believe in creationist teaching because you don't understand (or don't want to understand) the basic tenets of evolution.
agreeing with pleebo.... ok, time to go to sleep.
By Jetackuu 2014-09-15 23:41:30
Ragnarok.Harpunnik said: »Good grief this forum is religion obsessed. I came here looking for lolpics and made the mistake of clicking on this thread, this forum never changes xD Actually it's changed quite a bit, except for certain particular individuals who think they're persecuted by the mean 'ol atheists.
A couple millennia of role reversal might change their definition of persecution.
Here's the thing: most atheists (at least of those I've met) aren't that sick, but I guess maybe with group mentality.
By Jetackuu 2014-09-15 23:43:54
You keep confusing organized religion with people who have religion, I understand that it's hard for you to separate the things, and yes organized religions are cults.
THIS PROVES YOUR IGNORANT thinking in regards to how modern non-denomination Christians view themselves. see you clarified directly what i knew you're already biased opinion on religion really is. connect them directly to cults. you sir are an ***. good day.
THIS PROVES YOUR IGNORANT
Not at all, but this proves you are.
I never said that all religious people belong to cults, but all organized religions by definition are also cults.
I'm not an ***, but you seem to confuse telling the truth with being an *** or being mean, or being biased or attacking you.
I really think you may need to go sit with a shrink and talk to them about your persecution complex.
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By Odin.Godofgods 2014-09-15 23:46:14
Ragnarok.Harpunnik said: »Good grief this forum is religion obsessed. I came here looking for lolpics and made the mistake of clicking on this thread, this forum never changes xD Actually it's changed quite a bit, except for certain particular individuals who think they're persecuted by the mean 'ol atheists.
A couple millennia of role reversal might change their definition of persecution.
Ive seen many ppl call the whole atheist group a bunch of self indulging ***'s shoving there belief in everyone's faces. (of course ive never heard those ppl admit it could be the person not a group despite using that argument for themselves. - And pretty much most groups are doing that anyway) BUT in there defense, at least millions of ppl haven't been killed for there beliefs.
By Jetackuu 2014-09-15 23:47:20
Ragnarok.Harpunnik said: »Good grief this forum is religion obsessed. I came here looking for lolpics and made the mistake of clicking on this thread, this forum never changes xD Actually it's changed quite a bit, except for certain particular individuals who think they're persecuted by the mean 'ol atheists.
A couple millennia of role reversal might change their definition of persecution.
Ive seen many ppl call the whole atheist group a bunch of self indulging ***'s shoving there belief in everyone's faces. (of course ive never heard those ppl admit it could be the person not a group despite using that argument for themselves. - And pretty much most groups are doing that anyway) BUT in there defense, at least millions of ppl haven't been killed for there beliefs. Atheists (as a group) don't have beliefs, a lack of a belief is not a belief. Even going by the more popular and less accurate definition even a disbelief in a god/gods isn't a set of beliefs.
Tell me though: when was the last time you saw an atheist shove a belief in anyone's face, go door to door with empty pamphlets, or terrorize any group of people for not believing (lol) what they do?
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By Odin.Godofgods 2014-09-15 23:48:37
Ragnarok.Harpunnik said: »Good grief this forum is religion obsessed. I came here looking for lolpics and made the mistake of clicking on this thread, this forum never changes xD Actually it's changed quite a bit, except for certain particular individuals who think they're persecuted by the mean 'ol atheists.
A couple millennia of role reversal might change their definition of persecution.
Here's the thing: most atheists (at least of those I've met) aren't that sick, but I guess maybe with group mentality.
Quote: Edwards: Why the big secret? People are smart. They can handle it.
Kay: A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow.
Quote: Can Obama wage war without consent of Congress?
WASHINGTON (AP) — On the cusp of intensified airstrikes in Iraq and Syria, President Barack Obama is using the legal grounding of the congressional authorizations President George W. Bush relied on more than a decade ago to go to war. But Obama has made no effort to ask Congress to explicitly authorize his own conflict.
The White House said again Friday that Bush-era congressional authorizations for the war on al-Qaida and the Iraq invasion give Obama authority to act without new approval by Congress under the 1973 War Powers Act. That law, passed during the Vietnam War, serves as a constitutional check on presidential power to declare war without congressional consent. It requires presidents to notify Congress within 48 hours of military action and limits the use of military forces to no more than 60 days unless Congress authorizes force or declares war.
"It is the view of this administration and the president's national security team specifically that additional authorization from Congress is not required, that he has the authority that he needs to order the military actions," White House spokesman Josh Earnest said. He said there were no plans to seek consent from Congress. "At this point we have not, and I don't know of any plan to do so at this point," he said.
The administration's tightly crafted legal strategy has short-circuited the congressional oversight that Obama once championed. The White House's use of post-9/11 congressional force authorizations for the broadening air war has generated a chorus of criticism that the justifications are, at best, a legal stretch.
"Committing American lives to war is such a serious question, it should not be left to one person to decide, even if it's the president," said former Illinois Rep. Paul Findley, 92, who helped write the War Powers Act.
As a U.S. senator from Illinois running for president in 2007, Obama tried to prevent Bush's administration from taking any military action against Iran unless it was explicitly authorized by Congress. A Senate resolution Obama sponsored died in committee.
Nearly seven years later, U.S. fighter jets and unmanned drones armed with missiles have flown 150 airstrikes against the Islamic State group over the past five weeks in Iraq under Obama's orders — even though he has yet to formally ask Congress to authorize the expanding war. Obama told the nation Wednesday he would unleash U.S. strikes inside Syria for the first time, along with intensified bombing in Iraq, as part of "a steady, relentless effort" to root out Islamic State extremists. Obama has not said how long the air campaign will last.
The White House has cited the 2001 military authorization Congress gave Bush to attack any countries, groups or people who planned, authorized, committed or aided the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. Earnest on Thursday described the 2001 Authorization for Use of Military Force, generally known as the AUMF, as one that Obama "believes continues to apply to this terrorist organization that is operating in Iraq and Syria."
The Islamic State group, which was founded in 2004, has not been linked to the 9/11 attacks, although its founders later pledged allegiance to Osama bin Laden. In February, al-Qaida declared that the Islamic State group was no longer formally part of the terror organization. And in recent weeks, senior U.S. officials, including Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson and Matthew Olsen, head of the National Counterterrorism Center, have drawn significant distinctions between al-Qaida and the Islamic State group.
Earnest said Thursday that Obama welcomes support from Congress but that it isn't necessary. "The president has the authority, the statutory authority that he needs," Earnest said.
Others disagreed.
"I actually think the 2001 AUMF argument is pretty tortured," said Rep. Jim Himes, D-Conn., who serves on the House Intelligence Committee. "They are essentially saying that ISIL is associated with al-Qaida, and that's not obvious," Himes said, using an alternate acronym for the Islamic State group. "Stretching it like this has dangerous implications."
Himes supports a new congressional vote for a specific IS group authorization, as does another Democrat on the Intelligence Committee, Rep. Adam Schiff of California.
There is wariness even from some former Bush administration officials. Jack Goldsmith, head of the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel under Bush, said in the Lawfare blog that "it seems a stretch" to connect the Islamic State group to al-Qaida, considering recent rivalry between the two groups.
The White House also finds authorization under the 2002 resolution that approved the invasion of Iraq to identify and destroy weapons of mass destruction. That resolution also cited the threat from al-Qaida, which Congress said then was operating inside Iraq. But the U.S. later concluded there were no ties between al-Qaida and Iraqi President Saddam Hussein or his government, and the group formally known as al-Qaida in Iraq — which later evolved into the Islamic State group — didn't form until 2004, after the U.S.-led invasion.
Obama is using both authorizations as authority to act even though he publicly sought their repeal last year. In a key national security address at the National Defense University in May 2013, Obama said he wanted to scrap the 2001 order because "we may be drawn into more wars we don't need to fight." Two months later, Obama's national security adviser, Susan Rice, asked House Speaker John Boehner to consider repealing the 2002 Iraq resolution, calling the document "outdated."
Obama has asked only for congressional backing to pay for the buildup of American advisers and equipment to aid Syrian opposition forces. House Republicans spurned a vote on that separate request earlier this week, but Boehner is now siding with the administration. The White House acknowledged it could not overtly train Syrian rebels without Congress approving the cost of about $500 million.
Since U.S. military advisers went into Iraq in June, the administration has maneuvered repeatedly to avoid coming into conflict with the War Powers provision that imposes a 60-day time limit on unapproved military action. Seven times, before each 60-day limit has expired, Obama has sent new notification letters to Congress restarting the clock and providing new extensions without invoking congressional approval. The most recent four notifications have covered the airstrikes against the Islamic State group that began Aug. 8.
An international law expert at Temple University's Beasley School of Law, Peter J. Spiro, described the letters as workarounds that amount to "killing the War Powers Act with 1,000 tiny cuts."
Former Sen. Richard Lugar, R-Ind., who now heads the Lugar Center for foreign affairs in Washington, said Obama could ask for congressional approval in a way that would be less formal than a specific war resolution — perhaps either as an appropriations request or a simple resolution.
"It may not be the most satisfactory way to declare war," Lugar said. "But it may be a pragmatic compromise for the moment."
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