Gear Discussion For NIN.

pallas bracelet in ws nooooes ; ;

My bad, I haven't updated it. I use Ninja Tekko +1 to WS in.

Edit: I also need Byakko's Pants.

I'm like OP. Recently attained 75. Well, it's been about a month, but I still have a lot of mistakes to make.

Anyways, elemental gorgets from in the name of science? Are those worth using?

Also, while R/E, I recommend Fourth Legs, Head, and Feet. I'd use Haub and another hand gear however (o.kote, for example.)

Another question, is it agood idea to have a different WS set for Blade:Ten and Blade:Jin? Jin requires some degree of accuracy, whereas Ten, you could go all stats. Does that sound right?

Also, Brutal Earring is good for Blade:Jin I was told by a NIN friend. The idea is that the Double Attack may process resulting in extra damage.

Thanks.

Edit: I see a lot of people listed Brutal. I just now looked and noticed.

yes on brutal

and just use Blade jin

nuffin beats it

I see. Thanks, Thunderz. So the point is moot. No need to ever Blade:Ten in a serious situation, so no need to maximize it.

I thought of something while I was afk.

Mirke Wardecors w/ Acc+10 DA+2 > Haub? for TP'ing and WS? I guess the question here is DA+2 > Attack+10? I made Royale Redingote, but I was just curious.

Also, I noticed someone had Fenrir's Earring (Attack+10) over Minuet Earring (dex+1/str+1). So the question here is, at what point are ability scores (dex/str) worse than attack?

One more question. Heh. I haven't built the Anwig Salade yet. I was thinking Acc+10 Attack+5 and Dex+2 Haste+2. This would be good for TP'ing like a phoney Ace's Helm for NIN. And, if O.Hat is good for Jin, wouldn't this be too? Is this a good build for NIN's Anwig? Any recommendations would be very useful.

Thanks.

As far as nin goes, 10 acc 3 DW will be your best option.

Yeah, if you're augmenting a Mirke for NIN (or basically any other dual wielder for that matter) ACC + DW for sure.



Yes, though they really don't make a huge difference. They boost your first hit damage slightly, and provide accuracy for all hits - better, perhaps, for WS that are more mod dependent. Jin is mostly a matter of DA and crits.



Ten isn't really worth using most of the time. Kamu -can- be, and that's somewhat along those lines - STR and INT, though I've seen mentioned that technically you have the off-hand hit too, so ACC for NIN WS is always good. Though, most things where you'd use Kamu, you probably won't have ACC issues.



Might have been my sets, I use Fenrir's during the day, Minuet at night. Along with Brutal of course.

It's hard to say exactly, but given that it's 1 STR/DEX, it's going to be pretty marginal already. ATT benefit would depend more on what your current ATT is already. IMO, 10 ATT will win out more often than not.

Far as the Salade, I'd do the 3% Haste option if going for a TP piece, but it'd be nice either way if ACC isn't capped. It could also be set up as a nice WS piece.

If you're not going to add DW though (making the body spef for nin), I don't see any combo that'll beat haub(+1) really

Check my NIN sets on my Item set's tab. I think it's good but still need some work.

Isiolia,

Thanks for answering my questions. Again, I already built a Royale Redingote for my @1 job (bard.) But I was just thinking about it and thought I'd ask while I was here. A NIN in my Dynamis LS who has stupidly good gear—dusk+1, cerb+1, speed belt, and relic of course—did his wardecors up as DW and DA. For a Relic build, he's probably on the right track.

In any event, yeah, it was yours that had the fenrir earring. I agree as well, but still, something to think about. I'm sure there's an inflection point where one is better than the other. But, the nature of gear is that we do slot-by-slot analysis, and in this case, our comparison is one of extremes. Extreme attack (10) vs minimal ability scores (2). So I agree. But where it might become a difficult choice is 5 attack vs 2 STR. With SAM, we know STR and nothing but STR, but I don't know about NIN.

As for the Salade and choosing the Haste+3, my only issue with that is it comes with Snap Shot +3 or something. It just wouldn't be aesthetically pleasing! Ha. But, I was just curious what you guys would think of my build. But, you're probably right, -2 DEX +1 haste (compared to mine) would probably be better. But it's a marginal difference either way after all, I guess.

Vegetto: I agree. One day I'd like to own a Haub+1. There's a NIN in my Limbus LS who has one, and I'm all like, 'Jealous.' Not really. But yeah.

Ok thanks again.

EDIT: One more question. I see you guys have Nighttime and Daytime set-ups. Is there a windower plug-in or command that can automate that for you? Or do you pretty much just have to do it manually. I.E have two different macros and swap them out according to game time. Ok ty.

Your TP/WS sets look very similar to mine. I don't use any of the daytime/nighttime crap though. Am I a bad nin? Maybe.

One thing that kind of stood out is your WS set earring. You should swap out your suppa for Mermans or Ethereal or Triumph Earring. Other than that looks pretty solid.

I'm interested. Do you have parses to show this?

Edit: You deleted ur post <.<

You can get Spellcast to work within Game-Time and change any gear accordingly, though I've not got around to using it, so I generally use "Day/Night gear" if I have nothing that's more well rounded.

E.g. On WS:
STR+2 always instead of STR+4 at night. I'd probably use STR+2 for now. If it was like Eva+3 VS STR+4 at night, then I'd use STR+4 because EVA is doing nothing for my WS

I macro in all my Eva/Haste when casting Utsusemi, this includes my RK Breeches changing to AF Pants, even during the day. RK Breeches are doing nothing for me, whereas AF Pants are "helping" 50% of the time!

You're welcome to look see at my gearsets, they're far from amazing though.

/WAR TP Gear
/DNC TP Gear
WS Gear
Utsusemi

There are a number of improvements I could make on those sets, but for now I'm not too worried because I'm still waiting on some pieces for 75. NIN Tekko +1, Walabama Turban, etc. (Hence the reason I'm using Dusk to WS in >_>)

Hitetsu,

I see. I'll look it up. Thank you.

And yeah, I do that too. I mean, macro-in all Evasion and Haste for casting Shadows. I was actually thinking about setting a timer on Ichi so that it has *all* evasion and swaps in haste at the last second, but I don't think it would make a big difference. Heck, It may even cause problems if I hit another macro prematurely or something. But I'm just throwing that idea out there.

I looked at your TP'ing set. I see a lot of TP'ing done in Rajas Ring and Chiv Chain. I realize that this thread concerns Budget builds for WS'ing, but I can't help but wonder if a certain amount of STP is worth pursuing for a TP build. Wouldn't Sniper's (et al) x2 and a PCC be the best to TP in for rings and neck? Or are we looking for a certain amount of STP?

Sorry for all of the questions. I appreciate all of the input.

In terms of actual TP'ing, 2x Sniper and a PCC would most likely beat out Rajas/Ecphoria and Chiv Chain. The only reason I use Rajas is because it's a free ring that performs well for any DD job. It saves both a WS Ring and a TP Ring, and saves 2 inventory slots. Chiv Chain is, as far as I know (not including Sea Torques), the third best TP neck piece. PCC being the best, Spectacles being the second best, CC being third. The thing about CC is, you can get it for free, without having to pour in stupid numbers of hours camping a NM that you probably won't ever see unclaimed. Most of my gear came from my WAR's old TP/WS gear. My WAR was my first 75 DD/Melee, so it's gear wasn't great, but it all performs well in typical circumstances.

STP isn't as big a deal for 1-handed weapons as it is for 2-handed weapons. As I'm sure you know, 2-handed weapons get an exceptional amount of TP per hit, upwards of 14~15 Base if I remember right. This however comes with a ~6 second delay between swings. If you can cut out one of those swings, as STP can do, you'll increase your DOT dramatically.

Say you get 15% per swing (nice easy number) and you have STP+10 in total, you'll then gain 16.5% per swing (an increase of 10% from your TP/swing). Whereas with a 1-handed weapon, you could get say 6% per swing, and swing in half the time, but the STP+10 would only take you to 6.6% per swing.

As I mentioned earlier, in my opinion, STP is best left to 2-handed weapons and Acc+ prioritised on the 1-handed weapons.

With how fast nin swings with haste and enhances dual wield gear, double attack... stp really shouldn't be an issue.

Hitetsu: Ok man. I agree that 'free' is a good factor, and I'm glad you agree with what I'm saying. I'm a budget builder myself, but I was just curious if STP was worth considering. And thank you for being so ernest. I met a Ninja who (I'm not exaggerating) had defended Koga Hakama over Byakko's Haidate because he was too proud. So thank you. Also, good luck on getting to 75!

I got bored and decided to post my NIN TP and NIN WS goals. I don't have Brutal *yet*. At 27/75 coins. And I only have my first piece for Ninja Tekko +1, and I'll need to collect more coins for that as well. As I said, I don't have Anwig Salade just yet either. I also still need some AN for the fourth feet. Finally, I am in an Assault static to get Perdu Blade.

EDIT: forgot to add links.

http://www.ffxiah.com/item_sets.php?id=102219 - TP
http://www.ffxiah.com/item_sets.php?id=102222 - WS

Any input on these would be appreciated as well.

You need haste. NIN is really trash without it. Get Dusk Gloves, Swift Belt, Byakko Haidate... you can get by with the Ra/Ex Haste+3 feet, but the Fuma's really are better with more def and AGI.

Personally I like the NIN AF Body as opposed to the Relic for the increase in dual wield. The faster I swing the faster I get tp the faster I ws =)

I'd get rid of those sun rings and go for more of a ACC first and DEX second build. Blade: Jin is your bread and butter and if you are missing a hit then your Jin will suffer. DEX increases Accuracy and Crit Hit rates which will make your Jin awesome.

Outside of Relic/Mythic, Perdu appears to be one of the best katana's available. I hear a lot of people sing praises about it.

NIN Tekko +1 are, hands down, the best WS hand piece NIN is going to get for a long time imo, unless I've overlooked an option, they're insanely perfect for it. If you happen to be tossing shurikens for whatever reason though, maybe winds at gods in sky for the "omg the rng missed" moments, then they work very well for that. With RAcc+20 and Throwing+5(?), they make a very powerful addition to any Ranged Attack/Throwing setup.

Any NIN that defends Koga Hakama over Haidate is HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE, straight up.. I wish I knew them so I could put their head in a meat grinder >_> DEX+15 + Haste+5% is godly for Shadows, TP and WS.. I know some NIN that prefer Shura over Haidate, apparently they get similar numbers, I don't have either yet so I'll have to wait and see. I guess it's a personal opinion thing on those, both are nice pieces for :Jin.

Like Hypnotizd said though, with the speed a decently geared NIN should be swinging at 75, STP isn't a major part of any setup, if you get STP on a piece then more power to you =P You may or may not break a hit barrier, but with the speed you'll be swinging, it won't make much difference XD

As for the Fourth Feet, I'm assuming you're on about Fourth Division Schuhs, STR+3, Eva+3, "Subtle Blow" +2. Those are, on paper, decent WS feet imo, I don't have them though, atm I'm using AN to get other little things for my WHM, BLM, BRD (Ariesien Grip, Windy shoes, etc). Denali Gamashes (Nyzul Isle, Floor20) may be better in general, same STR+3 and added Acc+5. As I'm sure you know, NIN's better WS's are multi-hit, and as with all multi-hit WS, require a decent amount of Accuracy.

At any rate, good luck with Assault and Campaign ^^

Well, one thing with SAM vs NIN WS stuff is that SAM WS are single hitters with an effective ATT bonus on them - you don't -need- all that much ATT on WS, whereas for Jin, it's still an important component.



Personally, at least right now, I just have two macro bars and swap between them. Technically though, you can set up Spellcast to automate it.



Day/Night really depends on having enough to justify using it, IMO. In the long run, you'd wind up not really utilizing things without 'em (Koga hands/feet for example), which in turn could be not really playing to your potential.

Simply not bothering with Fenrir's or Vampire earring, meh.



Dagger, IMO, shines more if you're on birds or something else that's Piercing weak. You also need to have a pretty strong build for it to really do that well.

At peak, it does pull ahead of Katanas - NIN's primary strength is dual wield, and we can use some great damage/delay daggers. The caveat is skill - we also tend to not have very high ATT/ACC due to focusing on speed, so higher Katana skill will usually offset it.



STP not so much, I use Rajas in TP more because it's a relatively minor ACC penalty in exchange for a boost in base damage from the STR. Katanas, being low delay, don't need much STR to raise in that way.



Koga technically do make you swing a teensy bit faster if you're not getting external Haste, and do have other stats...I opt for Haidate for the timer reduction, DEX, etc anyway...but Koga do have some niche use.

Oh? I never knew that XD I thought they both reduced by a straight 5%, but yeah, the DEX is the icing on the cake imo. Higher Acc on A- weapons, more Critical's and the Haste reduction on casting is <3.

But yeah.. I never knew Koga offered a wee little bit more in terms of swing speed

I don't have any Koga gear, but to be honest I'd take the +5% Haste and +15 DEX over dual wield myself. +15 DEX = ~7.5 accuracy and increases Crit Hits.

Hypnotizd,

Yeah, I should explain the lack of a swift belt quick. 0/4 on the damned thing. 1 time w/o TH2, but the rest with. I have another Codex which my brother gave me, but I need to pop it. Honestly, I'm fed up with the thing. One run, I was the only one to not get it. Igh. I don't sound that sour do I? ;p

Anyways, most of these goals I can attain in the short term. Whereas Swift and Byakko's Haidate are more long term. I may never get Byakko's Haidate, but my brother and I have a plan to duo Despot. I'm looking forward to the low man challenge of Ullikimi (sp) as well. This is both in terms of the endurance test of farming and the fight itself. Farming/camping for hours is not a foreign concept to me. It took me 5 straight weeks of camping 12 hour windows to get Peacock Amulet. Having said this, though, Byakko's Haidate is still far off.

In any event, so you're saying ACC>DEX>STR for Jin? Should I just WS w/ my Sniper's or invest in DEX rings?

Also, I had read a while ago—if I had the link, I'd post it—that DW acts like Delay-% rather than like Haste+%. That is to say, it reduces the TP gain to the new attack speed. This results in more DPS but equal TP per second. This is like Haste Samba as well and the Delay-% grip. Is this correct? If so, this may render Chainmail best for an overall DPS improvement rather than a TP'ing set improvement. And, of course, if you have Chainmail+1, a definite style points improvement.

Hitetsu,

Thanks again man. Also, yeah, Tekko+1 are the bees knees it seems. I've been wanting Perdu for a long time as well. I'm really glad to have an Assault static to work on it. Just hit LC last week. But, yeah, Denali or even Rutter Sabatons (as mentioned earlier in this thread) would be a better way to go, but I already do Campaign for merits/LFP/shits-n-gigs, so Fourth gear is something I can easily obtain.

Isiolia,

I see what you're saying. I don't have a Fenrir's earring, otherwise I'd use it, but I'm definitely going to use your minuet/brutal set-up for WS.

In regards to Daggers, what two daggers do you recommend and if I have spare Combat Skill Merits, would it be a good idea to cap dagger merits?

Thanks again everyone. Your insights have been invaluable.

~G

Swift belt sucks like that. I've seen people go 1/10+ and I've also seen many (not me >.>) go 1/1. Just keep at it. It's the best TP belt you can get for most jobs (besides Speed/or the Ra/Ex).

If I were in your position, I'd join a sky linkshell and put BH as #1 item. The sooner you start he sooner you'll get them. However if you want to farm up your pops and have a shell merc. it for you that's up to you as well.


Really this comes down to personal preference. Blade: Jin is a critical hit chance multi-swing weaponskill. If you miss a swing, you Jin suffers. If you don't crit, your Jin suffers (but not as much). STR also raises the base damage of your swings. I wouldn't say get DEX rings, but I would rather WS in acc rings than STR rings.

Yes, Enhances "Dual Wield" effect is exactly like haste samba. It makes your combined weapon delay (Main + Sub)/2 that percent lower. You get less TP per swing, but you swing faster.

Ninja Chainmail +1 isn't just about style points. It changes Blaze Spikes to Shock Spikes which can stun your opponent if you get hit. It's something I want to get at some point, but I haven't done much Limbus at all.

The two values wind up getting multiplied together. They do both technically add 5% (or the games equivilant of it) to their respective stats, but you basically just gain more per point added from whichever number is bigger.

Since you've got -30% DW naked, and gear haste caps at 25% (nevermind actually hitting it sans latents on NIN), Koga's 5% winds up doing just that little bit more.

If you're in a party and getting Haste, it's not different enough to matter, and with March(es) Haste becomes better.

Far as daggers, main thing I've seen it on (other than using daggers in Apollyon against slashing immune) has been with Blau mainhand and dagger merits. IMO, if you're looking to use it for anything past messing around, you'll want that sort of setup. If you just want to mess with it, a Behemoth Knife would be a real cheap option to try.
Offhand you'd still want to shoot for a Perdu Blade, or just another faster Katana. The prime reason I've usually seen NINs use dagger is for birds, to take advantage of Evisceration's bonus damage on WS for them - that and Blau stands out for damage/delay. Most other daggers are in a similar range to Katanas as far as that goes.

ghlin to answer ur acc> dex >str question 4 wses, for most nins its matter of preference. but atm until u get kitty pants id go with wat u had before. but after getting the pants tho, ring slot could be dex or str depending the nin. i myself do dex since i have yet to get kitty pants. ;;
but ur on the right track. Gl with the gearing of ur nin ^^

Koga are and aren't faster than haidate.

(depends on how much haste u have) Each work the same way, the exact same way in terms of attack speed, only calculated independently. That being said as far as attack speed goes (though you'l get less benefit to ws dmg since reduced tp).

Going for max speed and wearing full DW gear, you'd have 40 DW before adding Koga. That means you'd need 41 haste for haidate to beat koga in terms of speed , 40 for them to be equal in attack speed, and 39 or lower to be inferior in speed
(though wins w/ the 15 dex even when less speed)
to Koga

So yea, need haste and a march generally.

Vegetto: Very interesting about how Koga and B.Haidate compare. Never would have ever thought that. Though, agreed, 15 DEX makes Haidate always a superior choice.

Hypnotizd, Gengi: Very useful input. I think I'll go ahead and get some DEX rings and try them out. I only use those Vic' Rings to WS on NIN, so I'm definitely going to sell them.

Isiolia: I see. Maybe I'll invest more thought into a Dagger build when that time arises. I have a broken Heart Snatcher from a long, long time ago that I'll use probably. Again, never would have imagined that daggers would be good for NIN.

Well, I think you guys answered all of my questions. So thanks again.

See you there,
~G

I know most people would never bother, but for events you should carry around Koga legs anyway. ignoring DW/haste, they offer +40 hp, which is an immense amount for legs, for your HP build, (spirits within opening on gods), also theres that thing about more base hp, less enmity loss when hit, and the +10 eva at night. i spoke to a usukane nin when i first got them, and he was saying at full DW he actually slightly faster than his full usu. not sure if he was joking or something maybe though.

and about daggers, my daggers really did pwn the ***out of my katanas in meritpo, 600+ everytime, with yonin up, and little effort into what i was doing.

Full usu is not actually the highest haste for nin. That's why mnk gets the most benefit out of full usu as they can still cap haste with it due to BB.