Dev Tracker - Discussion

I would say its more because people already have set many goals and 90% of them dont even bother to check Odyssey (both rewards and event itself). When I suggested few times on LS to our returning players that Odyssey is very good to male easy gils, I mostly got responces like "oh, i havent got time to check whats that event is yet". People are overhelmed by endgame daily activities that you are forced to do to make progress and they usually follow guides that tell them to focus on af, empy, relic reforge and getting some very important equip for their job. They will maybe catch up to Odyssey in few months.

Yes I've been talking about scales per person to begin with.

Duo box with minimal gear causally opening chests/tractoring:300 scales and spike 420.

6/6 static members, with coordinated effort and max gears: 300 scales too.

Cant you see something being wrong...at all?

If creating a 6/6 person pt takes 30 min, then the actual scale per person in a pt is 150, not 300 because you should be able to do 2 runs with that extra 30 min.

*** no just no.



Yeah its beta version of new content. And beta version is meant to gather feedbacks from the community. Its exactly what we are doing now, telling SE that odyssey isnt working well atm. So I don't get why people repeatly try to fight here.

Omen wasn't the way it is when it was released. Ou didnt exist and pt size was only 3-6. Ambuscade was different back then, community didnt do vol because it didnt worth it. Then SE changed it according to feedbacks from the community.

There are at least 4-5 people in this entire thread pointed out the same issues in Odyssey, so the flaw obviously exists, idk why you are still here arguing over and over. You are the only person who's fighting for Odyssey for whatever reason by arguing every feedbacks and ideas from the community to help with improving the designs.

Lol. Trying to convince you is like trying to convince a brick wall. You either repeatedly missed others point or refuse to recognize it.

Your "suggestion" doesn't actually fix the issue that I pointed out. Even if they go check out the content they would just ended up soloing on THF anyways. None would still answer pt recruitment calls nor form a pt for it because partying in odyssey doesn't worth the effort nor required to obtain/upgrade gears.

I already KNOW that 150 scales in 30 min is decent gil for solo player without good gears. And I already KNOW a THF capable of opening chests isnt tough to make gear wise.

What I'm not ok with isnt "good and easy gil", but not being able to form a party and do the content the way dev originally want us to do. You know, the pick your path and kill NM thing. The option to group up is pretty much none existent because THF solo often has much greater result.

No offense Afania but the same could be said about you lol.

If I'm not convinced in an argument then its generally because their reasoning arent strong enough.

But come on, 4-5 people in this thread flat out pointed out that Odyssea has design flaws but Baniak still cant see why, he just kept arguing without making any real points outside of his preference. That's another level of stubbornness.

Simon, you are being remarkably disingenuous here. People will solo farm Omen for swarts but that is entirely different than the reasons people Odyssey farm scales. For several reasons:

Omen mobs can be cleaved and runs last no more than 15 minutes. An Odyssey run is 30 minutes and mobs cant be cleaved
Swarts are 300k+ EACH, Scales are 1.5M~ a stack.
Swarts are required to finish the BEST weapons in the game. Scales are just for a few useful upgrades/sidegrades that cost less money than HQ armor on the market (see Gelatinous +1 R15 vs Moonlight Ring, Ioskeha Belt +1 vs Sailfi +1 R15).
Swarts supply is FAR rarer than Scale supply at any given time.
You get cards in Omen, and since you're cleaving, you can do it during gain exp for some double/triple (accolade) dipping. You can convert unneeded BLU/THF cards into your job of choice after a while.
You can farm omen several times a day if you choose to and are not forced to use KIs as often as Odyssey

It's no surprise Omen farming trash for Swarts > Odyssey farming scales for trash. Idk how you can't see that.

I think the solo efficiency of omen swart is about the same as odyssey? At 150 scales per run, that's 300 scales per hr= 3 to 4.5m per hr. It's not bad for solo considering THF has no gear requirement.

The difference is that omen gets card and there's incentive to group up for gears or merc. As long as you can merc well every job has good efficiency in omen and it's possible to get unique reward. A lot of people still do omen 3 years after release. This content has such a good popularity.

Odyssey doesn't have such option. If omen doesn't offer any ex/rare nor card I probably wouldn't see anyone recruiting for omen pt either. It would be dead 2 months after release. It's really the unique reward making all the difference.

30 min in Omen is worth about the same as 30 min in Odyssey. Both are time gated by 20hr ki. You can cleave Omen, but almost none but top players actually farm this way. Most people use thf and solo farm one by one doubling time spent from 15 min to 30 min, but also getting much more swarts. Most people also farm Swarts to sell it. What buyer use it for is totally irrelevant.




Its not my preferences. Its preferences of a lot of people, otherwise tons of scale wouldnt be sold each day. Only because you have 5 ppl here telling me that looking at early floors of Odyssey as good addition to gil farming methods is only my prefrences doesnt mean you are in majority pf playerbase. You are only a majority of several people who read and write in this thread.


Lol i just dont buy your arguments.

Omen swart farming is again exactly the same as Odyssey scale farming. Your whole talking about dev intended way of playing thos event if completely tour imagination without ANY actual sources. How do you know you are right about your judgment. How do you know scale farming isnt designed to be evenly distribiuted to solo and group players, where Swarts are designed to have several times more advantage to be farmed solo. Maybe early floor of Odyssey is meant to be like that. Offer easy farming method for new/returning players with trusts. Im not even talking about thf mgs because lets say you are right and this wasnt designed to be as efficient as it is, but there are still other solo methods yielding similar results and they are for aure intended thos way, so why you are keep being staborn that grouping should always be more effcient for every part of the game when it clealry isnt which we can see in with Swart farming. Lilith farming also probably has similar time reward ratio if you spam e or ve solo and if you group with pug. Its only your subjective logiv that grouping should also has advantage, because you need to put more effort into it, but SE clealry shows that even if thats true, its not only for all rewards in the event. Again Omen example when grouping gives you advantage with bosses, but not with Swarts. Odyssey will maybe give you advantage for bosses but not scales too. Nothing wrong with it.

Its also again your imagination that SE wants you to give them opinion about that part of the Odyssey. They probably have next part of it mostly ready and they might dont give a ***about your opinion when you havent seen whole structure yet, because many of your arguments can have 0 sense when they show us everything.

So no, I cant be convinced and not because I am brick wall, but because I have completely different pov than you. I look at current Odyssey and I see only a part of bigger project and the part that is designed to give even floor in whatever setup you are planning to do it and is designed to be farming option for everyone providing several gameplay options. Even whole MM system looks like that part of Odyssey might be designed to give equal chance to solo and group, but you are being completely closed on that possibility, because by your preferences, putting effort in making party should always be more rewarding for everything and by my preferences it shoudlnt always be like that.

It's like my 10th time saying that people preferring to "farm gil" in odyssey isnt relevant to the issues that I pointed out.

Show me a screenshot of multiple party yelling "Odyssey team up, 4/6 need tank" in town then I'll be convinced that the issue doesn't exist.

Show me screen shot of /lsmes or discord saying "Tuesday, Odyssey, gather together" then I'll be convinced that the issue doesn't exist.

Otherwise, what you are trying to argue here is completely irrelevant to the issue that I pointed out.

A lot of people prefer to farm gil in odyssey doesn't make my point invalid. I never ask their preferences to be taken away. Why can't we have a content like omen that people and solo farm gil AND team up for NM fight?

The unique rewards is not part of Swart farming at all. Grouping for omen is not part of the Swart farming at all. Omen boss floors are not part of the Swart farming at all. Why cant you underatand that one event can have two totally separate reasoning to be played. If Omen wouldnt have unique rewards you probably wouldnt see people grouping for it, but you would still have tons of people soloing it. It would only be dead as group event, not as event in general. Lastly why cant you underatand that what we have might exactly be the portion of Odyssey that is meant to be attractive for solo players and the part being attractive for group is on the way. Lastly why cant you understand that grouping not always should be more attractive than solo. Trust system is big part of FFXI and making few places favoring solo playstyle encourage paople to also invest time and effort to improve their performance of solo with trusts.

Sorry for errors, but its very late and typing on this phone, which not pointing out where I made typing errors, makes it hard to avoid them.

My full clear astral farm in 17 minutes says otherwise.


I didn't see any chests today when I farmed astrals.

Also gain-xp.

Also cards.

Also JPs.

Also daily ROE to keep Sylvie.

Also a means to rank up RMEA without spending a dime.

That's the same as no option because other people wouldn't join parties.



It's not, and I explained why. Omen has ex/rare and people still team up for gears/merc/cards.


They did when they announced the content. On the other hand they didnt advertise odyssey as MGS type content.

I didnt say "scale farming" isnt the main focus. I only said playing MGS isnt.

It's obvious that dev intent to let player freely choose how to farm scales, both keying and killing are viable, or a mix of both.

For now, it strongly favors keying which is unbalanced. And no incentive to group that's even less balanced. So I call it bad design.


Omen has content that favors groups, or at least groups for people wearing 2017 gears. Swart farming wasn't even there when omen was out. Its just an added bonus, never the main thing. The main thing has always been killing bosses.


Nope. Done both E solo and VD in groups. VD is far more efficient, more so if you team up with people needing different pieces or find helpers.

Odyssey doesn't offer such option at all. You cant group up for more efficient runs by aiming for different drops.


Which event in game that let you complete the gears without needing to beat anything? Name one.

Even in dyna D you need to kill wave 1 and wave 3 bosses to unlock gear upgrades.


Well, thanks for confirming my opinion, LOL? I've been saying Odyssea is bad because of reasons. You are defending them with "well the content isnt complete yet....". So that means you agree that its bad? How can a content that's not completed be "good"?

"Content isnt complete" isnt a valid reason. It only confirm that the content is bad to begin with.

And I think you are just utterly biased anyways.

I cant, because when omen was released in 2017, there were no swarts. Just 5 challenging bosses with tons of good ex/rare gears. Plenty of static were formed back then. It was a successful content right from the get go, and never "dead" since the release. Swart was added later as a bonus, omen was never meant to be a "enter solo for gil" content until much later.

So your point is moot.

If odyssey is meant to be like omen, then they should be releasing group content first. Then people probably wouldn't complain and content won't look half assed.

But no they made something with no meat instead. And we arent even allowed to call it a half assed content when it clearly is.

To be fair, they couldn't work on it well enough due to the virus. Hopefully when they all get back they can flesh it out better.

Most players solo farm omen killing one by one, not AoEing. Most people also use one most efficient job for it, so they are cards capped for a long time. I will ignore the chest part, I already adressed that thf solo opening chests might not be designed to be that much efficient, but still its for sure Odyssey is designed to be very attractive for solo and Swart farming is too, even more. If you actually use different solo efficient way to farm Odyssey, you also gets JPs and gainxp, so its even more similar then.

Sure. I mean it's not like I'm going to burn down SE HQ because they released half *** content. But its *** hilarious that even baniak himself admitted the content isnt done, on the same time argues relentlessly when people call it half assed content, just lol.

If content isnt done what's the reason to defend for it? What's not done and lacking is just lacking. Then of course we are going to say it out loud because that's what it is.

It really isn't, because your assumption is unfounded. I've done Odyssey in groups plenty of times. Not everyone is so laser focused all the time, the game is not a job.


But your explanation is poor. Swart farm runs have absolutely nothing to do with R/E gear. Who gives a ***about 2017, it's 2020 and people do farm Omen for nothing but a fungible upgrade material, as they do in Odyssey.


...Wat? Wtf is this logic? I'm pretty sure Odyssey isn't being expanded as a reaction because the content is "bad," it's being expanded because it wasn't complete to begin with. It's a gradual release. That's like saying an expansion pack is bad until the last set of missions is released. I do believe the point is that perhaps you shouldn't judge content as "good" or "bad" until you actually know what the content is.

I have no skin in this game but your arguments are poor on their face.

Even if odyssey is designed to be an attractive solo content, I still call it bad design because:

1) THF opening chests are much more favorable than killing mobs. A good design=every route should have equal efficiency.

2) 1) renders MM system useless. You dont need power up trusts if you go for the chest route. So what's the point to design MM system? A waste of effort,

3) since MM system is useless, grouping has less incentive.

I still see flaws no matter how I look at it.

If all route has equal efficiency as THF keying, at least people will be more willing to lv up MM, in return they are more willing to group to lv MM faster.

But they *** things up with THF keying balance or AHable scales, they either need to provide ex/rare reward for more grouping incentive or increase the drop rate from fodder/NM so killing things has equal efficiency as keying.

New or returning player still do omen in 2017. And some groups merc too.

A good way to check content popularity is see shouts on 1st page.

I seriously dont see odyssey shouts anymore lol.


No. I pointed out several design flaws in post above and explained why this content has less popularity compare with others content It's just few white knights repeatedly use "content isnt done" as a counter argument, which isn't valid to begin with. If you want to convince me that the content is good, at least post a SS showing tons of people recruiting members for it or waiting outside to get into zone. What kind of argument is "well content isnt done yet....", lol.

If SE release the content and it isnt gaining popularity compare with other content, then anyone can call it bad for the sub money that they pay for. This has nothing to do with bad logic, its just saying things as they are. I dont understand the point to recognize content isnt done yourself but dont allow other people describe it as it is?


This isnt assumption. It's real in game experiences. It's not up to ME to decide whether we should be doing Odyssey if other people flat out tell you "not interested" because just buy the scales. I can't possibly force people do content they dont feel like doing. Only SE can with better incentives.

The *** are you talking about. They said many times its a content made to be relased in parts. By not completed I mean its not fully released.


Again what the ***. I clearly compare part of Omen to part of Oddysey we got so far. We KNOW its only a part of Odyssey and we know its part that is suppose to be easy and attractive for solo players with trusts. You are super stubborn to compare part of whole Odyssey project to whole Omen, pretending they havent released info that next part of Odyssey are suppose to be more challanging and bring new unique gear on top of augments to higjer lvl unm gear.

You not only have problem with MGS thf being efficient, which I would underatand, but you have problem with whole idea of solo being as efficient as grouping.

Lastly (seriously lastly because im going sleep, but I also dont plan to continue to use my time to comment this furher anyway) I farmed 5000 scales on each of my thf mule with basic gear and also around 18000 4boxing and maybe 2000 solo on thf using my main and yet you call numbers that are provided for solo thf as "according to you", but some guy telling you avg numbera from thf+mule without any details and you call it *real* numbera right away. Gtfo lol. Go try solo thf with spark gear and tell me how is that avg 200 scales even before factoring in the price of keys is working for you.

You do not have any more authority than anyone else to say "what things are" or what valid criticisms or defenses are. Some of us find your position weak because we think your reasoning is bad. It has everything to do with "bad logic." For someone accusing others of being a "brick wall," you show a remarkable lack of self awareness or the ability to accept that the standards or priorities of others do not necessarily match yours, and that they are not less valid for it.

People disagreeing with you and finding your arguments weak is not any different than you doing the same to them. You cannot put your arguments forward and say you've "explained them" but then claim when others do the same and criticize your explanation that they are just "white knights" because they put an argument/explanation forward that you didn't agree with.

My Linkshell does group Odyssey, as well as solo Odyssey. Often times someone is going after one of our events and asks who wants to come, and sometimes other people will go and sometimes not. We're not going to make an LS event out of a 30 minute battlefield you can do once every 20 hours. Maybe as more of it gets released it will become more worthy of event slots. They didn't release part of it solely for feedback, as they've already said that much of the incoming changes are already implemented.

Popularity of content is not solely shown by shouts in town, and certainly not by whatever's on the "front page." People are doing the content, and lots of it, as shown by the plentiful supply and high demand of the scales on the market, so your claim that the content is not popular is just not supported at all.

Lol not fully released doesn't justify then lack of incentives.

Omen wasn't fully released in 2017. It only had 5 bosses and no Ou. People still did them right after release.

Dyna D wasn't fully released in 2018, only 1 zone and no wave 3. People still enter the zone and killed the boss for unlocks. And static were formed for gil farm.

Both werent complete when they release and yet they didnt have the issue Odyssey has now, so why are you defending for odyssey lol. Content not complete doesn't justify anything.



I didnt compare whole omen with whole odyssey. I compared 1st part omen with 1st part odyssey. Omen had better incentives.



I listed efficiency as ONE example of creating incentives. It doesn't have to be the only incentive.

If you prefer to keep soloers getting as many scales as groups, that's fine. But they they should make MM relevant(which provides incentives for grouping in odyssey), or provide ex/rare reward(so more people wants to do odyssey, which makes pt recruitment easier)

Or if you dont like any idea above, you are free to give your suggestions.

But you dont like any suggestions from me, and relentlessly defend for the content that clearly has less popularity than other content in the past. I dont understand why. Do you prefer content not get changed and stay as it is? If that's the case then surely we are at least allowed to call it bad but you dont like that either. Why do you keep arguing?

I will make exception from the statement that I wont comment this further because im on phone and I was super slow with editing that post, so I will throw that edit as new post for visibility

Edit:
best solo efficient way is to solo on thf and get izzat to force pop aurum and open that with key, which makes MM and whole progress with coffer discount made fastest in group very relevant, but how would you know when most of your experience with Odyssey is probably from forum posts.

I didnt claim to have any "authority", it's all your imagination, I simply provide feedback about a newly released content that 4-5 people pretty much had the same feedback. If you think my feedback or reasoning is wrong, you should ne explaining why. Not just toss a "content not done" excuse like some kind of protective mom.

Here, you agreed that content has little incentive outside of THF solo chests. And that's the point I was making in past 3 pages.


So you agreed with my point, on the same time calling my opinion wrong when you had the same opinion? Its *** silly. Why are you arguing something that you agree with.

It seems like you are just another Baniak. You didnt really disagree with my opinion in general, just dislike my choice of words then decide to argue over and over because my choice of word somehow make you unhappy. Like how you imagined that I'm claiming authority over other individuals when I was merely providing feedback and brainstorming solutions to this content.



Sure, I dont have some kind of data to prove the content has less popularity than other content. But I dont think that invalids some of the design issues that we made. Even if tons of people are doing content for gil, if they all do it on solo THF, then the issues such as as "Nm/fetter/trash kill arent rewarding enough" and "less incentive to group up" still exists.

I made a ***tons of points with Baniak in past few pages, you cant just cite one single post and call it bad logic while ignoring the points from different posts. I mentioned way more design issues than just popularity.

Nope. Done odyssey with real people, cor solo and thf keying. Then stopped when scale price dropped to 600k to 1m because it's faster to complete r15 pieces with merc gil from events. And other people quickly lose interest after a while after release anyways. Last a couple of pt recruitment that I see from my connection are mostly omen, ambu, merc, htbc but not odyssey.

You saying "MM is relevant" here doesn't matter much, it's not me that you need to convince, it's the potential recruits that may be interested in joining the party. If I hear tons of people saying "I'd like to lv up MM now let's team up" when I log on then I'd agree that your opinion is right. But I just dont see it.

gtfo with that ***

I mostly agree with Afania because of the nice avatar they have. I'm easily swayed by frivolous things.