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Opinions on rank of best damage dealers
 Leviathan.Veronika
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 114
By Leviathan.Veronika 2009-11-07 13:29:02
Fairy.Vegetto said: "Meaning SAM benefits a TON from DNC's evasion debuffs,"
Nope
"defense debuffs, haste debuffs"
Yes
"and a proper dnc can rival their damage output. "
No. Sam gets TP faster, attacks faster, does will WS more times, will do higher average dmg/ws, ect. I've never partied with a single sam who used a polearm who never ws'ed less than 1000 in a party. Sure, they may get the RARE 1500+, but most the time they do like 900 damage. I'd like to see a sam out do me per-ws every time. If they beat me half the time i'd be impressed. With great katana they do even less. They may ws more often but they hit for 700-900 most the time with those ws's.
And if you caclulate the amount of damage added by that 10% haste samba to the 5 total DD's, and the effect of the evasion/defense down debuffs on TOP of the good damage a dancer can do, i'm sure you'll see a dnc adds more total damage to a party than a sam ever could.
サーバ: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 707
By Fairy.Azulmagia 2009-11-07 13:30:57
Leviathan.Veronika said: I've never partied with a single sam who used a polearm who never ws'ed less than 1000 in a party. Sure, they may get the RARE 1500 , but most the time they do like 900 damage. I'd like to see a sam out do me per-ws every time. If they beat me half the time i'd be impressed. With great katana they do even less. They may ws more often but they hit for 700-900 most the time with those ws's. ?_?
サーバ: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3615
By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-11-07 13:32:06
Leviathan.Veronika said: Fairy.Vegetto said: "Meaning SAM benefits a TON from DNC's evasion debuffs,"
Nope
"defense debuffs, haste debuffs"
Yes
"and a proper dnc can rival their damage output. "
No. Sam gets TP faster, attacks faster, does will WS more times, will do higher average dmg/ws, ect. I've never partied with a single sam who used a polearm who never ws'ed less than 1000 in a party. Sure, they may get the RARE 1500 , but most the time they do like 900 damage. I'd like to see a sam out do me per-ws every time. If they beat me half the time i'd be impressed. With great katana they do even less. They may ws more often but they hit for 700-900 most the time with those ws's. 
Leviathan.Veronika
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 114
By Leviathan.Veronika 2009-11-07 13:32:32
Fairy.Azulmagia said: Leviathan.Veronika said: I've never partied with a single sam who used a polearm who never ws'ed less than 1000 in a party. Sure, they may get the RARE 1500 , but most the time they do like 900 damage. I'd like to see a sam out do me per-ws every time. If they beat me half the time i'd be impressed. With great katana they do even less. They may ws more often but they hit for 700-900 most the time with those ws's. ?_? Check the bold + underlined part.
Quite simply in other words it reads:
I have never partied with a sam who hits 1000+ every weaponskill.
サーバ: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3615
By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-11-07 13:32:59
Note where it says low/average/high
Average is the average damage of all my pentas in the said party.
in the 2nd parse, kny is also sam polearm.
サーバ: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3615
By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-11-07 13:33:15
Leviathan.Veronika said: Fairy.Azulmagia said: Leviathan.Veronika said: I've never partied with a single sam who used a polearm who never ws'ed less than 1000 in a party. Sure, they may get the RARE 1500 , but most the time they do like 900 damage. I'd like to see a sam out do me per-ws every time. If they beat me half the time i'd be impressed. With great katana they do even less. They may ws more often but they hit for 700-900 most the time with those ws's. ?_? Check the bold underlined part.
Quite simply in other words it reads:
I have never partied with a sam who hits 1000 every weaponskill. get better sams
Leviathan.Veronika
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 114
By Leviathan.Veronika 2009-11-07 13:34:57
Fairy.Vegetto said: Note where it says low/average/high
Average is the average damage of all my pentas in the said party.
in the 2nd parse, kny is also sam polearm. Note where it says lows. My point is proven. I go entire parties without hitting less than 1k. If i get CLOSE to going below 1k it's cuz i missed 2 or 3 hits.
サーバ: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3615
By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-11-07 13:36:29
Leviathan.Veronika said: Fairy.Vegetto said: Note where it says low/average/high
Average is the average damage of all my pentas in the said party.
in the 2nd parse, kny is also sam polearm. Note where it says lows. My point is proven. I go entire parties without hitting less than 1k. If i get CLOSE to going below 1k it's cuz i missed 2 or 3 hits. That's like saying you can't go through a party w/o hitting less than 1k. My point still stands my averages are always in the 1.4-1.5k range. You know why my lows are that low? Its because killshot. Its a simple concept. Let's say the mob is at 30% and me and Kny fire off at the same time. His penta goes first and leaves the mob with 1-5%. My first hit kills the colibri, and the remaining 4 automatically miss. That is how multi hit ws' work.
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11681
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2009-11-07 13:36:31
Leviathan.Veronika said: Fairy.Vegetto said: Note where it says low/average/high
Average is the average damage of all my pentas in the said party.
in the 2nd parse, kny is also sam polearm. Note where it says lows. My point is proven. I go entire parties without hitting less than 1k. If i get CLOSE to going below 1k it's cuz i missed 2 or 3 hits. It's a *** multihit WS, of course you're going to have lows under 1000 due to multiple hits missing or killshot. That's a fact of life when the accuracy cap is 95%. Back to the averages please, your point has no value.
サーバ: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3615
By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-11-07 13:37:06
The only point you've proven is that you don't know the basic mechanics behind a multi hit WS
 Cerberus.Geldric
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 283
By Cerberus.Geldric 2009-11-07 13:39:25
Quote: And if you caclulate the amount of damage added by that 10% haste samba to the 5 total DD's, and the effect of the evasion/defense down debuffs on TOP of the good damage a dancer can do, i'm sure you'll see a dnc adds more total damage to a party than a sam ever could. The point of this topic is who is a better DD. Not who will help the party more or do more damage with other DDs.
Leviathan.Veronika
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 114
By Leviathan.Veronika 2009-11-07 13:40:25
Dancing Edge is a multi hit weaponskill too, or did you forget? It's probably due largely to the fact that a) dancer has a lot of ws acc, b) I'm a mithra, and c) dnc ws's in acc and attack gear only. You'll see a lot of people try to use CHR and DEX, but they're idiots. That's why you see some dnc's WS for so low.
 Seraph.Caiyuo
サーバ: Seraph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6524
By Seraph.Caiyuo 2009-11-07 13:40:40
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: The SAM is getting that Samba too. Are you trolling or really this bad at math? lol, I kind of feel bad bad, but yeah, this is a little ridiculous. The last merit I recall with DNC that was parsed merely meant they out-parsed a wyvern. D;
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11681
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2009-11-07 13:41:40
You acknowledged your WS is multihit but conveniently ignored the fact that Penta Thrust is too. The only person "forgetting" anything here is you.
EDIT: Caiyuo: ouch x.X
Cerberus.Geldric
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 283
By Cerberus.Geldric 2009-11-07 13:41:57
Quote: a) dancer has a lot of ws acc, b) I'm a mithra RACE HAS A LOT TO DO WITH YOUR JOB.
Serious note; where does Dnc have alot of ws acc where Sam doesn't?
サーバ: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3615
By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-11-07 13:42:11
Leviathan.Veronika said: Dancing Edge is a multi hit weaponskill too, or did you forget? It's probably due largely to the fact that a) dancer has a lot of ws acc, b) I'm a mithra, and c) dnc ws's in acc and attack gear only. You'll see a lot of people try to use CHR and DEX, but they're idiots. That's why you see some dnc's WS for so low. This has ZERO to do with my point. You are either very good at selective reading or very bad at comprehension. The reason the low on those parses are that low is because the mob died on the first or second hit of the WS and the following hits automatically miss/don't connect.
Leviathan.Veronika
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 114
By Leviathan.Veronika 2009-11-07 13:42:58
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: You acknowledged your WS is multihit but conveniently ignored the fact that Penta Thrust is too. The only person "forgetting" anything here is you. I never said it wasnt a multi hit ws... You guys are the ones bringing it up lol. Yea, penta misses a lot of hits often as sam cuz their skill is gimp, get a drg out there who's properly geared and you'll see a big increase.
サーバ: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3615
By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-11-07 13:43:27
My entire point is that MY ws AVERAGE is higher than YOURS.
Cerberus.Geldric
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 283
By Cerberus.Geldric 2009-11-07 13:43:32
Oh my goooooodddddd. How the *** is our skill gimp and yours is so much better?
Leviathan.Veronika
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 114
By Leviathan.Veronika 2009-11-07 13:43:36
Cerberus.Geldric said: Quote: a) dancer has a lot of ws acc, b) I'm a mithra RACE HAS A LOT TO DO WITH YOUR JOB.
Serious note; where does Dnc have alot of ws acc where Sam doesn't? Dex adds acc. Dex adds damage to dancing edge (not as much as attack, but it does).
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11681
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2009-11-07 13:43:48
Good SAMs can and do reach 90%+ accuracy at bird camp with Polearm without relying on food to do so, another invalid point.
サーバ: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3615
By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-11-07 13:44:15
Leviathan.Veronika said: Fenrir.Nightfyre said: You acknowledged your WS is multihit but conveniently ignored the fact that Penta Thrust is too. The only person "forgetting" anything here is you. I never said it wasnt a multi hit ws... You guys are the ones bringing it up lol. Yea, penta misses a lot of hits often as sam cuz their skill is gimp, get a drg out there who's properly geared and you'll see a big increase. No, it's not because their skill is gimp. You're not reading and you're an well i'd say it but you'd prolly cry to the mods. It's because YOU KILL THE MONSTER BEFORE ALL THE HITS CAN LAND
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 324
By Bahamut.Dracondria 2009-11-07 13:44:41
Sam Penta > DRG Penta but DRG Drakesbane > Sam Penta imo (Talking high numbers only)
Leviathan.Veronika
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 114
By Leviathan.Veronika 2009-11-07 13:45:10
Oh, another thing that should be tossed out there. Haste samba doesn't add towards any haste cap. If you're 100% capped out on magic haste, gear haste, job ability haste, EVERYTHING... and you add a dancer, the 10% haste still applies.
サーバ: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 707
By Fairy.Azulmagia 2009-11-07 13:46:18
Veronika said: Oh, another thing that should be tossed out there. Haste samba doesn't add towards any haste cap. If you're 100% capped out on magic haste, gear haste, job ability haste, EVERYTHING... and you add a dancer, the 10% haste still applies. This topic isn't "what helps DDs the most?", this topic is "what DDs the best?".
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11681
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2009-11-07 13:46:24
You do realize that fact weighs it even more in SAM's favor, right? Why are you still talking?
サーバ: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3615
By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-11-07 13:46:36
Let me break this down to a language that even you can hopefully understand.
Go to south gustaburg. Go spam Dancing Edge on those monsters. I guarantee you won't do 1k dmg. Why? Because you will kill it with the first hit of the WS, which means the other hits will not land/be thrown/ect. It's called overkill.
Leviathan.Veronika
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 114
By Leviathan.Veronika 2009-11-07 13:46:37
Fairy.Vegetto said: Leviathan.Veronika said: Fenrir.Nightfyre said: You acknowledged your WS is multihit but conveniently ignored the fact that Penta Thrust is too. The only person "forgetting" anything here is you. I never said it wasnt a multi hit ws... You guys are the ones bringing it up lol. Yea, penta misses a lot of hits often as sam cuz their skill is gimp, get a drg out there who's properly geared and you'll see a big increase. No, it's not because their skill is gimp. You're not reading and you're an well i'd say it but you'd prolly cry to the mods. It's because YOU KILL THE MONSTER BEFORE ALL THE HITS CAN LAND You're the one assuming i dont understand. That happens to everyone though.
Cerberus.Geldric
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 283
By Cerberus.Geldric 2009-11-07 13:46:58
We are all getting the same buffs except one. Does HASSO add to the DANCER'S haste?
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11681
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2009-11-07 13:47:11
Veronika said: You're the one assuming i dont understand. That happens to everyone though. I can't begin to imagine why.
Curious to see how people would rank the different damage dealing jobs according to best damage output. No restrictions on gear; looking for the very best.
I know right now everyone is all "sam sam sam" but I think a pimped out WAR trumps it. Also BLM is up there somewhere.
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