Discussion: How To Make BLM More Relevant

If they wanted to "fix" elemental nuke DPS then get rid of the 3s global lockout after casting spells and remove the SDT monsters get from successful elemental casts. That would be a huge improvement and we might see chain casting T1 / T2's to be a decent method to get DPS.

i see a lot of folks bringing up free nukes, sure, that's one screw they could adjust. but think about it, ranged attacks don't auto attack (daken aside) but you have to push buttons for each individual shot, most ppl would rather use a addon to automate that tedius task or they forget about range equip naegling and savage spam away on COR and RNG.

if you'd buff free nukes you'd put mages in a similar situation. i'd rather see a less brain dead solution.

You could make it so that people get a damage buff if they can correctly quote Shakespeare prior to casting a spell.

Or make it so that the party members need to form a perfect give pointed star with the BLM in the center to grant them a 10% damage boost.

Yeah didn't think so. There is a meme for what you want.

Awesome But Impractical




Real solutions are going to be simple and easy and not require players to play a mini-game to cast a nuke.

FFXIs entire battle system is based on mini games, skillchaining and magic bursting.

nyame, melee BLM, discuss.

Staff melee ain't great.

A blm melee would want the full gambit of melee buffs, and magic buffs. It can't really be done efficiently.

it works fine, seen it done. blm does the shell crusher/opens sc's catches bursts. it's just inefficient. requires the minimum amount of effort and strategy vs automated gs spamming savage blade, never going to catch on. You can make anything work. There's just better and easier so why.

nyame comes with 200-300 ACC, if that cancels the need for BRDs ACC buffs you could build BLM, GEO, COR. depending on how fast BLM gains tp together with occult accumen they could even multistep
shattersoul or retribution -> vidohunir -> vidohunir and maybe end with shattersoul or gate of tartarus? maybe SC together with COR?
ranking up nyame is a lot of work for a lot of ifs and whens, but did anyone run this thru a spreadsheet?

does anyone know if the burst wall gets reset with every new step?

ofc savage spam is easier but i read SE nerfed using the same WS over and over on new content?

BLM melee can be something enjoyable to challenge yourself to build, but never expect it to be a viable contribution to typical endgame content. As someone who plays around with melee builds for both Claustrum and Laevateinn, I can reach "typical" accuracy numbers seen for melees, or at least close (~1120 to ~1175 in my builds without food or buffs), but there are a couple things that drive me nuts and always leave me feeling gimpy:

-In order to hit acceptable haste, accuracy, and STP values, multiattack is almost completely ignored for the builds I've tried. This becomes MUCH less of an issue once AM3 is up on the mythic, and in my mind really the only time TP gain feels appropriate.

-Weapon Skill limitation. Vidohunir can be very respectable with Laevateinn and the appropriate target, so there is that. But we don't naturally get Cataclysm (never did understand how WHM and GEO get it naturally when their "traditional" weapon is a club, yet BLM doesn't and their traditional weapon is a staff) without choosing a subjob from a limited selection. And even these two solid options are both magical damage- we just don't get a good physical option for more common needs.

-Nyame Gear. Its a great gift, but if BLM really wanted to compete in melee damage, we'd need 2 sets- a set of Path A and Path B, each. Right now my Nyame are split with Head/Body/Legs on WSD path and Hands/Feet on STP path. I then fill out my TP build with some other "acceptable" options like Jhakri Legs+2, and STP/acc augmented Telchine Body/Head. I can add Jhakri Hands+2 to WSD builds obviously, but outside of insane Merlinic Dark Matter augments, Head/Body slots are left relying on just stat vomit for a WSD set.

-Buff limitations. Even in an ideal situation, you wouldn't likely only melee on BLM. This means you need more buffing support for overall less damage output (even combined) than a traditional DD or even a Corsair. Either you are on content where anyone could successfully DPS and don't need buffing, so who really cares where the damage comes from, or you are dealing with content that would require full buff arrays for both physical and magical damage, and that won't be beneficial to the party/alliance as a whole, just one underperforming person.

tl;dr- build it up, have some fun with it, but never expect it to be a viable replacement or new role for us. In the end, the only real "fix" I see any more for BLM is for SE to develop content that has moments that require a BLM either through a proccing system or limited viable damage options that completely limit physical damage functionality.

Cant you just tp with occult acumen/absorb tp?

Semantically, yeah, that is gaining tp, but it's not meaningfully contributing. That's like yeah, DRK can gain tp by casting spells! Not so much. But they totally can.

1.if you're building TP with an Occult set and casting regular spells, the MP/TP exchange even in a full blown set isn't viable for long battles. Plus, you're essentially eliminating any respectable damage from those spells used to gain TP, if it was any good to begin with. While that might not seem like a huge deal, it is lost damage. And we're not exactly building up to Leaden Salute numbers in our WSs.

2. Many high end targets are just flat out immune to Absorb-TP, and even those who are susceptible to it, well, you're still dealing with a really piss poor recast time.

They can augment your TP gain, but don't work as a full-time TP'ing method. They also work if you need a quick one-off of 1k TP for a Myrkr, but again...that's not a solution, just an addition.

They did the proccing system in abyssea, all it did was make people bring blm for all the wrong reasons. They weren't there for thier dmg, they were just there because of a spell only they could cast, take that out of the equation and they wouldn't have been there at all. That was a feeble attempt to make people use it, what it needs is effective capability not some niche use born out of a proc system.

But people were using it, and in voidwatch too. They should force people to try different setups, not only doing content with whats optimal dmg wise. I dont see anything wrong with doing that.

I agree. And sadly, I don't see too many other ways to justify ever bringing a BLM any more. Fights like Ongo are at least a damage-based reason, so there are rare occurrences of that- but when building a strat and there's a debate of what type of damage to bring, you bring either your personal group's best damage, or a damage type specifically needed to abuse a weakness. Right now, BLM almost never fits either of those two arguments, so artificial reasons need to be created, otherwise we'll never see BLMs in party/alliance content.

Ya know, if only there was someone, like a representative of the community, that played jobs, that could see what it would take to make things work.

Someone at the company, who was competent, and gave a ***. What a crazy concept, feels like if that idea ever caught on they could make some real progress.

When meleeing, the biggest frustration is the expectation to slow down WS's to the requirement of Skillchain Windows and to hold back WS's enough to allow the Burst to land.

WS1 -> WS2 -> Skill Chain Window

WS2 can't be executed too quickly after WS1 or you won't get a Skillchain, which means that with a few or more top tier Melee, TP & Damage are wasted compared to just spamming as soon as you have TP because of the process of waiting for the time windows.

With only 2 Melee, it's a LOT more manageable working with a BLM, but beyond 2 Melee, waiting for a BLM to MB is only worth it if your Melee are in introductory gear or some combination of less than top notch gear and being haste buff starved where the TP pace is much slower.

Once WS2 lands the Skillchain Window is opened, and your BLM may have started a preemptive cast knowing what the Melee were going to be Skilchaining with, but if a WS3 lands prior to the Nuke landing and changes the skill chain property, that Nuke isn't going to Burst.

Skillchain windows need to be able to run parallel to skill chain properties. I don't know what kind of code they'd be having to manipulate to get that effect, but it needs to be done. Period. It's extremely deceptive and annoying to see the Skillchain Light animation, but someone did WS3 0.2secs after WS2, and so even though your Nuke is landing while you visually see the Skillchain Light animation, you get nothing.

Without this fix, BLM will never be competitive with Melee in any fight where you aren't Slow or Dispel spammed on the front lines or asking your DD to gimp their damage output to accommodate the BLM, thus making BLM to be always relegated to the "safe" distanced option people use only if Melee aren't a safe option or some mechanic of the fight specifically calls for a BLM (proc systems).

Next, the Nuke Wall is entirely too constricting. And honestly it comes off to me as one heck of a hack job to get the game in to the ballpark of a desired effect (not having a whole party or alliance of nukes or close to it). It's quite a dramatic change from what the game used to be before.

The point of it seemed to be to minimize the abuse of BLMs, but it's effectively removed them from most of our radar. It also has rendered RDM nukes worthless in almost any scenario where you've invited a BLM.

The Wall needs to be implemented in such a way that they place the Nuke Wall as a stat on the Monster. The Nuke Wall Stat would have a Range of 1 to 18 with the Stat representing something like the number of Nukes blocked by the wall within a single Skillchain Window (or equivalent amount of time - a few secs - currently 5 secs, anyway).

First, for clarification, I have to assume 18 potential Nukes with 18 slots in an alliance, at least. This 18 figure/assumption is a bit foundational for how the Nuke Wall as I'm outlining would work.

Anyway, the lower this stat is, the better for the BLMs. If it's a 1, it means 1 out of 18 nukes are blocked (so the game would count up to 17 Nukes as landing before any are blocked by the Wall), if the stat is a 17, it means 17 out of 18 Nukes are blocked or otherwise stated as only the 1st Nuke will land.

If SE only wants 1 job nuking on a given target, make its Nuke Wall stat a 17.

Most non-NMs will be a 0 & most higher Tier NM opponents should probably be a 14 or 15 at the highest. BLM should be viable and relevant. If they want to minimize BLM presence or effectiveness, it should be RARE they set it as something higher than 15.

Beyond this, if SE has a problem with the potential ways a BLM will abuse or destroy content, then they should factor that into the stats on the Gear they make available for BLM, and the magic evasion, magic damage taken, or health pool of the NM to start with.

It seems illogical that our staff skill is not A+ but all of our relic/ambuscade/odyssea gear has accuracy attached. It's like they want us to melee, but to be competitive they should increase our WSD modifiers and let us create our own sc similar to SCH and DRK weapon bash.

Tons of discussion over the past few months on this subject, but I've yet to see anyone address one issue:

Do we want content we can attempt with ANY mix of jobs and completely ignore damage types, resistances, and repetitive actions, or do we want a VARIETY of enemies, some of which are suited for magical damage, some for physical, etc?

I think this specification is extremely important. I know part of the reason I'm still playing FFXI is the importance placed on damage type, elemental relationships(the wheel), and monster family strengths/weaknesses. It means its not a game where the only difference in mob is the visual- different monsters act differently. Other games end up just giving a pretty face to essentially a tree trunk, over and over.

Personally, I just want there to be some difference in magical damage based on how its dealt- magical weaponskills from melee/ranged jobs shouldn't be an equivalent substitute for casted magic, and that in my mind is the biggest flaw SE has yet to address...and the biggest reason BLMs can be ignored for almost all content in existence.

To me, it seems like the way to make Black Mage more relevant is to just use it and encourage others to use it. It may not be optimal or easy, but it sure is fun. A million years ago when we got started, Black Mage Death MB was the primary strategy used in high-level Geas-Fete content and Black Mages ruled Dynamis. It's more work and preparation, but to me, that was always my favorite aspect of the game.

The only thing SE really needs to do is stop putting content where Black Mage cannot be used. Segment farming for instance. I'd sincerely enjoy going in and slamming -ajas like the Vagary days. Black Mage Dynamis Lord MST would be wild, I may actually try that one eventually.

I mean if it were possible to simply get people to play without trying to make it a job (be as efficient as possibke) then it would be fine.

We don't act that way. It's compulsory. You have to make it better mechanically.

Completely agree. The job either needs moments where it is without question the best DPS option or improvements to make it competitive in all moments with other DDs. I personally don't believe the latter is possible, so I hope for more content like Ongo.

I'm not sure time is the deciding factor. I've been gone for 3 years, today it's the same faces in the same places.

Neither is meta, I see people running around with non-meta/non-BiS setups and remas constantly because that's the weapon/gear they want.

Plus...

i do feel they need to adjust their aoe nuking capabilities. with blu easily being able to cleave large groups of mobs with a single spell, blm gets completely left in the dust and they are meant for aoe nuking. Not that SE would even make the adjustments, but they should at the very least modify the aoe nuke penalty. they wouldn't even have to remove it entirely, but just make it somewhat less punishing. The single target damage on aoe spells used to at least make them worth casting if you were careful, but these days, even that falls off fast. Maybe increasing the magic acc when an AOE is cast single target or giving the spell something like a 1.6% mod for single targets would be nice, but sadly i know this will never happen >.>

I can't believe I just spent 10 minutes reading this stupid ***.

Trash the resist wall and mtdr.
I guess adjusting mob pdif to the same degree would also work.

Nothing else is going to help blm.

Maybe add a JA quick magic so you can instantly MB with a 30s cooldown so you can actively contribute to the party WS.

I dunno..

BLM was my first job and will always love it, even if it's the lowest rated.

Blm seems like its in the same spot as every other job that isnt brd cor whm war drk drg tank. Doesnt seem like anything besides these jobs gets used for anything either save a few odyssey fights.

That's the best it's going to get.

Pick; Build a couple mobs specifically for a single blm or turn the entire game from savage blade onry to blm onry. They're incapable of any other option.

I totally pick the blm route. The problem is SE won't invest the effort/money into this 20 year old game to balance it out, there probably isnt even enough people to do it even if they wanted to. (Which they have made it clear by lack of actually fixing stuff in favor putting stupid damage walls up cuz it's easy,lazy, and cheap, that's never gonna happen.) Hell most of their games on steam never get patched either.

imho you should be able to do most mobs with melee, ranged or magical instead of getting dictated what to do by mob resistance. instead make tradeoffs, one is fast but a bit risky, the other is a bit slower but reliable and the third somewhere in the middle.
mix it up so one way of DDing isn't always the save or slow one.

ofc that's not a option anymore cause SE needs you to build up as many jobs as possible to keep you occupied for low effort and sell more wardrobes.

I mean, there aren't many things you CANT do with a blm(s).

It's just slower. You can totally not use geo brd AND cor, and slot a blm(s) in, if you wanted to.