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Discussion: how to make BLM more relevant
By SimonSes 2022-11-14 06:52:14
It'd be easier if SE would spare us the shame, and just remove this worthless class. It'd also be nice to get a formal letter of apology for failing to make one of the first, and always present Final Fantasy classes absolutely useless.
Wtf are you talking about.
First of all playing BLM was always the same fun, nuke wall or not. AFAIK Nuke strategy was also meta during long time of Escha HELMS being end game. It was very good in first months of Dyanamis D too. Nuke strategy and BLM is part of the current Sortie meta.
The only problem of BLM and nuke strategy was that melee/zerg was more effective usually, especially when some current end game content was power creeped. The problem was almost never that BLM and nuke strategy wouldn't work, it was just slower, never useless.
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2022-11-14 07:43:22
now that sch and geo can nuke fairly effectively (sortie at least) give blm something unique. meteor and death are worthless now, ja and t6 are sometimes overkill when lesser spells can 99999, elemental enfeebles are strong but sometimes difficult to land, any number of jobs can stun, etc. mana wall is very nice but it doesn't directly lead to more damage, and blm is still a dd.
I think something that gets overlooked a lot with BLM vs GEO+SCH nuking argument is their practically never-ending Mana supply. Recently I've been the BLM in Sortie groups (I have also played GEO there too), and being able to commit to DPS full time through the tougher Sortie bosses is very helpful, especially when fights drag out. GEO has to constantly focus on keeping their bubbles up, but between Fetter spam and nuking some, you can be out of MP very quickly if the fight drags on too long. Also, Malaise is a hefty MP cost to constantly keep putting up, if Dematerialize isn't available for some reason. If the fight gets out of hand, SCH may have to revert to healing and removing enfeebles on the tank or keep others alive, if he's not already busy making an Immanence SC. BLM on the other hand never has to worry about running out of MP. Between Manafont, Manawell, Parsimony+Sublimination) (if /SCH) or Convert (if /RDM), Myrkr, Aspirs (not great on bosses), Elixirs, and resorting to AF+3 body, it can always pull from different sources of MP restoral, which puts it still farther ahead as a DPS than GEO or SCH. So while I agree that both jobs can do capped damage easily with the right buffs, BLM wins the Marathon in the long run.
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By RadialArcana 2022-11-14 08:00:00
Make BLM a mage/melee hybrid class with much faster cast times and recasts on its magic, problem solved! Basically just make it a DRK but without the drk JA, so they can nuke and melee. They kind of already started out that way, allowing blm to use scythes but chickened out.
That would be fun as fk tbh, using a gsword or scythe and smashing out torcleaver and then a drain / aspir on low recasts and swapping in mage gear to magic burst your own skillchains.
BLM should be far more similar to BLU or even RDM.
I honestly can't really see any reason not to do this, they already did it with RDM that used to be a complete joke for melee dmg and is now really powerful.
Lakshmi.Buukki
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2022-11-14 08:07:30
You guys are funny. BLM as a natural caster is completely fine the way it is, job comp-wise. No need to make it into a Ghetto Knight, it has the tools to do what it is supposed to do. My only gripe is that BLM is the original magical job, but gets skipped on the two Magical WS Earth Crusher and Cataclysm. I think those WS in BLM's already powerful Arsenal would be an even more enjoyable role.
You could gather stuff up with Mana Wall tanking, break everything, then TP on one, and unload a powerful Cataclysm or Earth Crusher, Rinse and repeat. Myryr (or Aspir) when you need MP. it would sort of be BLM's way of doing the Sanguine Blade cycle that RDM can do. That would be pretty fun IMO (you can do this kind of with Occult Acumen set, but meh, I wanna use Stave WS)
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Lakshmi.Byrth
VIP
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2022-11-14 08:45:39
If they rolled back the Divine Might nerf, I wonder whether people would start using BLM to farm things like Odyssey points. 6 BLM (trade off pulling with manawall on) could spam the same element -aja. I don't think that a single round would necessarily kill a group of 10 in Sheol - B and I'm pretty sure it would not in C, so I'm not really sure how it compares to existing burn strategies. I could see it being a lot easier to multibox than existing strategies, though.
Seems worthwhile to me to do it, or at least make it so you need 2 nukes to get any magic damage resistance.
Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2022-11-14 08:55:35
If they ever "fix" it, that's exactly what will happen.
The meta will entirely abandon meree and they'll just nuke everything, everywhere, everytime. Unless the target is so harmless that it's a full zerg with zero fear of failure.
"that guy" - "No I wouldn't"
You can already picture the exact sentiment. "Why run up and waste 1 whole second to pull out a weapon when I can just nuke it from here"
(And you, currently typing that it won't be better. I didn't say it would. It will be easier.)
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2022-11-14 09:43:36
If they rolled back the Divine Might nerf, I wonder whether people would start using BLM to farm things like Odyssey points. 6 BLM (trade off pulling with manawall on) could spam the same element -aja. I don't think that a single round would necessarily kill a group of 10 in Sheol - B and I'm pretty sure it would not in C, so I'm not really sure how it compares to existing burn strategies. I could see it being a lot easier to multibox than existing strategies, though.
Seems worthwhile to me to do it, or at least make it so you need 2 nukes to get any magic damage resistance.
Make Meteor great.
Not again, cause it never was. Just make it great.
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 Bahamut.Suph
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By Bahamut.Suph 2022-11-14 10:57:29
Valefor.Prothescar said: »Make Meteor great.
Not again, cause it never was. Just make it great.
Maybe they can add stat debuff to Meteor like Impact, with each blm = extra -10% debuff to each stat.
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サーバ: Asura
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By Asura.Aquatiq 2022-11-14 10:59:50
leave all game mechanics alone & change vidohunir from -10 to -25, boom job fixed blm in every party
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 Sylph.Reain
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By Sylph.Reain 2022-11-14 11:05:30
The Odyssey fodder mobs have the AoE damage reduction if they aren't the original target. BG wiki lists it as -90%.
Similar to domain invasion fodder mobs, Dynamis-Jeuno Blue eye mobs, Locus mobs.
The cumulative magic resist wouldn't be the problem for that plan.
 Bahamut.Belkin
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By Bahamut.Belkin 2022-11-14 11:06:59
Speaking of Meteor, it's about high time they added Ultima. Put it on the Prime weapon, cowards!
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 Shiva.Flowen
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By Shiva.Flowen 2022-11-14 11:23:26
Blm is a great job to bring for sortie boss runs - discussion ended
Phoenix.Iocus
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By Phoenix.Iocus 2022-11-14 11:23:51
Ultima is always my favorite spell. Much sparkle, such radiation poisoning.
I think the staff WSs without a subjob is the least they can do. It made a huge difference for RDM.
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By Asura.Melliny 2022-11-14 11:43:06
They're only allowed to add Ultima if they include a score of the music track from FFXIV's ultima battle whenever you cast it. That tune is too awesome. Totally fits blm too.
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Siren.Akson
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By Siren.Akson 2022-11-14 12:18:49
The only problem of BLM and nuke strategy was that melee/zerg was more effective usually, especially when some current end game content was power creeped. The problem was almost never that BLM and nuke strategy wouldn't work, it was just slower, never useless.
The problem is DD doing WS Spam Dmg which is typically Savage Blade negates both SC and also BLM all together as well since BLM relies upon SC to MB.
SE made DD too simplistic & forced RUN into being useful by creating Rayke+Gambit & they further punished BLM via the Nuke Wall.
Nobody should be doing 99,999 Dmg via overly simplistic WS spammage nor should BLM do such via Free Nuking but SE took the game into that direction heavily favoring DD and especially Savage Blade itself over the old formula of SC + MB = WIN of olden days
Meteor is an absolute Joke & always was a Joke. Now it’s just more magnified due to the existence of the Nuke Wall when having an Army of BLMs is useless. I miss the 75 era Dyn days of BLM but I do NOT miss our lack of FastCast back then. Vividly recall the days of leveling BLM in party having AM take 30s it felt like just to cast such. Having an Army of BLMs back then was always good fun.
How do we FIX the 99,999 Dmg via giving NM Bosses -90% DT + lowering Max HP allowing our Dmg Calculators showing Gear capable of doing 150k to do 15k WSD instead? Idk tbh. All I know is that BLM is NOT the actual Problem but rather the overly simplistic WS spam itself is just way too OP atm making SC frivolous & pointless. Hence BLM was automatically DELETED from the game.
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By SimonSes 2022-11-14 13:42:58
Idk what are you guys doing, that your Savage Blades are doing 99k damage (outside of might strikes). Not to mention being able to do 150k if not the cap. I must be gimped.
I think the only physical WS capable of doing 99k on regular basis without SP usage is Impulse Drive with Shining One at very high TP done by DRG, but even that is random and requires very high cRatio. Maybe DRK with very high TP Torc, Cross or Insurgency after close to perfect proc on Delirium.
Thats also on some easy mobs. Not on bosses. Also this new mechanic of WS wall and older mechanic of same WS wall both put Savage spam to trash and let BLM REBORN. I feel like some people commenting here haven't been playing recently and aren't aware of Sortie meta.
By Chimerawizard 2022-11-14 14:10:58
I know my RDM's black halo's deal 55~65k on A~D bosses and I optimized assuming I'm not going to ever attack cap. If I planned around PDL as well and was on a job with more WSD + PDL, I don't see why I couldn't hit cap.
Now that the basement's a thing though I backline cure on GEO or SCH most of the time instead.
Siren.Akson
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By Siren.Akson 2022-11-14 14:15:21
Thats also on some easy mobs. Not on bosses. Also this new mechanic of WS wall and older mechanic of same WS wall both put Savage spam to trash and let BLM REBORN. I feel like some people commenting here haven't been playing recently and aren't aware of Sortie meta. I have not yet seen any Signs whatsoever of MBD doing anything more Potent than RNG simply spamming Trueflight nonstop capping Dmg 99,999 repeatedly albeit w/ an unnecessary gimmick of a “WS Wall” forcing the RNG to <Wait 8> iirc.
In fact Eijin Caitsith has been steadily dumping NEW Sortie NMs faster than the JP setup I seen utilizing SCH and setting up BLM to MB.
That hasn’t “Fixed” WS spammage. We still capping WSD via Trueflight &/or supposedly even Blade: Chi I was told can also cap Dmg vs some, if not all, Sortie Bosses.
The simple Fact of the Matter is that spamming WS is by FAR the Fastest DPS. Savage Blade just happens to be the most common used Method atm which is why I pointed such out as being the biggest offender of WS spam.
It doesn’t matter that Savage Blade does 60k minus Mighty Strikes.
— What Matters is that SC into MB has been Overthrown by WS Spam which automatically Deleted BLM from Setups.
BLM ain’t “Reborn” via Sortie 2.0
Shiva.Flowen
サーバ: Shiva
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Posts: 526
By Shiva.Flowen 2022-11-14 14:21:15
The only problem of BLM and nuke strategy was that melee/zerg was more effective usually, especially when some current end game content was power creeped. The problem was almost never that BLM and nuke strategy wouldn't work, it was just slower, never useless.
The problem is DD doing WS Spam Dmg which is typically Savage Blade negates both SC and also BLM all together as well since BLM relies upon SC to MB.
SE made DD too simplistic & forced RUN into being useful by creating Rayke+Gambit & they further punished BLM via the Nuke Wall.
Nobody should be doing 99,999 Dmg via overly simplistic WS spammage nor should BLM do such via Free Nuking but SE took the game into that direction heavily favoring DD and especially Savage Blade itself over the old formula of SC + MB = WIN of olden days
Meteor is an absolute Joke & always was a Joke. Now it’s just more magnified due to the existence of the Nuke Wall when having an Army of BLMs is useless. I miss the 75 era Dyn days of BLM but I do NOT miss our lack of FastCast back then. Vividly recall the days of leveling BLM in party having AM take 30s it felt like just to cast such. Having an Army of BLMs back then was always good fun.
How do we FIX the 99,999 Dmg via giving NM Bosses -90% DT + lowering Max HP allowing our Dmg Calculators showing Gear capable of doing 150k to do 15k WSD instead? Idk tbh. All I know is that BLM is NOT the actual Problem but rather the overly simplistic WS spam itself is just way too OP atm making SC frivolous & pointless. Hence BLM was automatically DELETED from the game.
Lol.. Sortie bosses are much easier and faster with a good mage mb strategy (BLM included) compared to melee ws spam. Looking forward to hearing from you when you have made some progress with the current content.
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Siren.Akson
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Posts: 2172
By Siren.Akson 2022-11-14 14:23:35
The only problem of BLM and nuke strategy was that melee/zerg was more effective usually, especially when some current end game content was power creeped. The problem was almost never that BLM and nuke strategy wouldn't work, it was just slower, never useless.
The problem is DD doing WS Spam Dmg which is typically Savage Blade negates both SC and also BLM all together as well since BLM relies upon SC to MB.
SE made DD too simplistic & forced RUN into being useful by creating Rayke+Gambit & they further punished BLM via the Nuke Wall.
Don’t even need a RUN nor Rayke or Gambit JA let alone 1HR on BLM to melt anything easily via DD via WS every 8s.
Nobody should be doing 99,999 Dmg via overly simplistic WS spammage nor should BLM do such via Free Nuking but SE took the game into that direction heavily favoring DD and especially Savage Blade itself over the old formula of SC + MB = WIN of olden days
Meteor is an absolute Joke & always was a Joke. Now it’s just more magnified due to the existence of the Nuke Wall when having an Army of BLMs is useless. I miss the 75 era Dyn days of BLM but I do NOT miss our lack of FastCast back then. Vividly recall the days of leveling BLM in party having AM take 30s it felt like just to cast such. Having an Army of BLMs back then was always good fun.
How do we FIX the 99,999 Dmg via giving NM Bosses -90% DT + lowering Max HP allowing our Dmg Calculators showing Gear capable of doing 150k to do 15k WSD instead? Idk tbh. All I know is that BLM is NOT the actual Problem but rather the overly simplistic WS spam itself is just way too OP atm making SC frivolous & pointless. Hence BLM was automatically DELETED from the game.
Lol.. Sortie bosses are much easier and faster with a good mage mb strategy (BLM included) compared to melee ws spam. Looking forward to hearing from you when you have made some progress with the current content. YouTube Video Placeholder
The PROOF is there alrdy as is if you look for it
Shiva.Flowen
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 526
By Shiva.Flowen 2022-11-14 14:27:50
The only problem of BLM and nuke strategy was that melee/zerg was more effective usually, especially when some current end game content was power creeped. The problem was almost never that BLM and nuke strategy wouldn't work, it was just slower, never useless.
The problem is DD doing WS Spam Dmg which is typically Savage Blade negates both SC and also BLM all together as well since BLM relies upon SC to MB.
SE made DD too simplistic & forced RUN into being useful by creating Rayke+Gambit & they further punished BLM via the Nuke Wall.
Don’t even need a RUN nor Rayke or Gambit JA let alone 1HR on BLM to melt anything easily via DD via WS every 8s.
Nobody should be doing 99,999 Dmg via overly simplistic WS spammage nor should BLM do such via Free Nuking but SE took the game into that direction heavily favoring DD and especially Savage Blade itself over the old formula of SC + MB = WIN of olden days
Meteor is an absolute Joke & always was a Joke. Now it’s just more magnified due to the existence of the Nuke Wall when having an Army of BLMs is useless. I miss the 75 era Dyn days of BLM but I do NOT miss our lack of FastCast back then. Vividly recall the days of leveling BLM in party having AM take 30s it felt like just to cast such. Having an Army of BLMs back then was always good fun.
How do we FIX the 99,999 Dmg via giving NM Bosses -90% DT + lowering Max HP allowing our Dmg Calculators showing Gear capable of doing 150k to do 15k WSD instead? Idk tbh. All I know is that BLM is NOT the actual Problem but rather the overly simplistic WS spam itself is just way too OP atm making SC frivolous & pointless. Hence BLM was automatically DELETED from the game.
Lol.. Sortie bosses are much easier and faster with a good mage mb strategy (BLM included) compared to melee ws spam. Looking forward to hearing from you when you have made some progress with the current content. YouTube Video Placeholder
The PROOF is there alrdy as is if you look for it
I am saying this as a gastra r15 owner who has directly compared the strategies. You?
Siren.Akson
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Posts: 2172
By Siren.Akson 2022-11-14 14:31:48
I’m not getting into such a Debate attempting to Minimize actual Factual Evidence provided by others as being I don’t even know what you are suggesting here…..
— Fake?
— Impossible?
— Impractical?
“BLM Reborn” is that your Message too?
What’s “Easier” having a RDM/RUN kite via Gravity while DD dump uncontested 99,999 WSD every 8s or placing RUN into Danger eating TP moves & needing to time Rayke + Gambit &/or use Subtle Sorcery + not to mention Tabula Rasa for Success?
By all means do w/e works Best for your Group.
I’m just saying such is NOT a sign of BLM return to Endgame Content
Shiva.Thorny
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By Shiva.Thorny 2022-11-14 14:36:22
The PROOF is there alrdy as is if you look for it
I don't really like Ejiin much, but if you watch the video you just linked, he outright says that mage strategy is better for these fights than what he's doing.
Siren.Akson
サーバ: Siren
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Posts: 2172
By Siren.Akson 2022-11-14 14:39:16
The PROOF is there alrdy as is if you look for it
I don't really like Ejiin much, but if you watch the video you just linked, he outright says that mage strategy is better for these fights than what he's doing. He saw JP groups utilizing such too? Idk tbh. That’s what I saw.
I didn’t see anyone uploading MB minus JP uploads on Day 1 when such was NEW when Eijin uploaded such. I seen both ends of the spectrum & BLM is still in a very bad spot atm due to Reasons I alrdy listed above.
Personally I could not care any less about killing these things since I need 70k Muffins per Emp+3 & my group doesn’t have a Gastraphetes capable of matching Eijin sort of Dominating success via Dmg. So we just farming Muffins atm the best we can.
Sortie did NOT seriously make BLM relevant again.
Not unless y’all believe the Dmg Wall via WS spam is here to stay….
I do not which means moving forward BLM is still in the same spot.
Quetzalcoatl.Jakey
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By Quetzalcoatl.Jakey 2022-11-14 14:45:25
The blm strat is a bit more work and multi boxing with it especially on the ones that can change elements is a giant pain but it can kill much faster and can work against all the NMs so there's really not much of a comparison.
Carbuncle.Maletaru
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By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2022-11-14 15:09:35
I think the missing link here is that you do both. Our group does COR RNG RUN SCH BLM GEO. We do what Ejin does, set up a SC for the RNG to close for 99+99, but then on TOP of that, you have a BLM (and possibly SCH or GEO) hitting 99k MBs.
Would you like to explain how 99+99+99+99 < 99+99? Just because people aren't posting videos of it, doesn't mean it isn't happening. People have posted on here that their BLM SCH SCH RUN COR GEO setups are doing all 4 basement bosses in a single run. Where are your videos of Melee spam doing 4 basement bosses?
For the record, I've never done all 4 basement bosses in a single run personally, I don't think we have that kind of familiarity yet, we don't have the right jobs on the right characters to do 2 SCH, and it takes a lot of coordination, but like...nuking is clearly the best strategy here and claiming otherwise is ignorant at best.
Siren.Akson
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By Siren.Akson 2022-11-14 15:17:56
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »I think the missing link here is that you do both. Our group does COR RNG RUN SCH BLM GEO. We do what Ejin does, set up a SC for the RNG to close for 99+99, but then on TOP of that, you have a BLM (and possibly SCH or GEO) hitting 99k MBs. Yeah I think that’s a great idea utilizing the Best of both setups into 1 setup.
I guess the divide here is that some ppl think that
• Sortie having “WS Wall” is the Future of Endgame
—vs—
• Others like myself only view such as just another Sortie gimmick that will NOT exist outside of Sortie itself
Which makes such Debates literally Off Topic cuz I don’t see “WS Wall” implemented by SE vs anything else minus Sortie. As in neither Odyssey NM Boss fights nor anything else has such mechanics.
BLM is STILL in a very niche aka “Bad” spot atm & only useful when SE decides to force everyone into using BLM via their Design of individual Endgame Fights
The only way to make BLM relevant again is via making SC the path to Success rather than WS spammage. Otherwise BLM only exists when SE decides themselves that nothing else should do Dmg but the BLM themselves sort of Content.
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »Would you like to explain how 99+99+99+99 < 99+99? I am NOT saying that at all whatsoever.
’BLM is a DEAD Job atm cuz Sortie is NOT the Future of Endgame Content since “WS Wall” does NOT exist outside of Sortie‘ — That is what I am stating
That’s like stating BLM works just fine simply cuz we used BLM vs Voidwatch for Staggers
Sortie having a gimmick “WS Wall” doesn’t seriously make “BLM Reborn”
 Bismarck.Nickeny
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By Bismarck.Nickeny 2022-11-14 15:48:06
BLM ain’t “Reborn” via Sortie 2.0
I think it is. Go home roger
I got my BLM Mythic several months ago but I have barely even used it. Other than the occasional manaburns for Gaes Fete people just don't seem to use BLM anymore. I haven't even seen a BLM in Ambusacde for the last 2 years.
The idea I want to discuss is around Magic Crit and Crit Damage. As far as I remember it barely does anything and isn't even worth considering when building gear sets. What if they increased the base crit for magic spells to be more like physical crits and be a +100% modifier. This way free nukes in Dynamis D with no buffs could hit around 20 to 30k. This would help BLM compete with melee DD. To stop it from being too OP they could make magic crits not apply to magic bursts and only free nukes.
What do you guys think? What other ideas could make BLM more relevant without breaking it?
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