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Question for all the PUPs.
 Kujata.Segaia
サーバ: Kujata
Game: FFXI
Posts: 332
By Kujata.Segaia 2009-10-16 01:48:18
Vegetto said:
Whm/sch can do just as well, if not better than RDM as far as merits go, especially birds for esuna on wivres. SCH may have more mp management, but whm will make up for it because of haste. Haste = mob dies faster and therefore does less damage to the party before dying, requiring less heals.
All your DDs being hasted is going to be a MINIMUM of 21% increase in kill speed, kill 21% faster, get exp 21% faster. This is with low haste builds on each DD and no marches.
If we go to a party w/ double march and each DD having 17% haste in gear
17 + 11 + 9 + 15 = 52 haste
15/(100-52) = 15/48 = 31.25% increase in killspeed and exp.
I honestly can't see myself in a party w/o haste. SCH isn't on the list of jobs I would even consider for a merit party, unless it was a personal friend of mine I was trying to help get their level.
Stoneskin the 7 str ext, none of that will come close to a 21-31% increase in killspeed.
Ah ok i see. We both had a certain setup in mind. We are low on BRDs nowadays so i excluded them in mind and only looked at jobs when 5x DD + 1x SCH. Since i wrote "to let a BRD handle CC completly" you couldn't conclude to that, i admit. Therefore i was referring to WHM/SCH as a healer without external source of refresh. On a side-note: Never use sharpshot in merits at Mamool Ja Staging point, Spiritreaver is the way to go.
サーバ: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3615
By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-10-16 02:17:00
Oh damn. I'm glad I'm not on that server lol. I don't think I'd ever be able to handle a party w/ 5 dds and 1 mage. I'd rather go campaign for exp, lol. make some brds jump to your server!
Kujata.Segaia
サーバ: Kujata
Game: FFXI
Posts: 332
By Kujata.Segaia 2009-10-16 02:32:36
Vegetto said: Oh damn. I'm glad I'm not on that server lol. I don't think I'd ever be able to handle a party w/ 5 dds and 1 mage. I'd rather go campaign for exp, lol. make some brds jump to your server! I love to do that on PUP/SCH and BLU/SCH. Both are better on it than most would think. Tho only do it for the lolz. PUP/SCH is very hardcore to handle in merit parties and requires you a good MP-set, an enfeebling magic set with a good portion of INT, enfeebling merits and Optic fiber + Damage gauge. It is an accomplishment to make and a very thrilling experience but remember: "Because you CAN doesn't always mean you SHOULD.." ;P PS.:Besides BLU/SCH is a very awesome healer. At 75 it has access to Aspir, MP-Drainkiss and Magic Hammer together with Sublimation. This gives BLU nearly infinite MP when you have a +110 INT/+110 MND-set for BLU. BLU got his own Stoneskin-ga aswell as a lot Dark AND Light-Based sleeps.
 Seraph.Mooshie
サーバ: Seraph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 101
By Seraph.Mooshie 2009-10-16 02:53:55
I'm a 75 pup and love the job, mainly for silencing the critics. I was recently invited to a nyzul party where 1 member was openly complaining about pups capability as a dd.
Anyway long story short i used my fully merited blm frame, outdamaged the hell out of his useless *** with my automaton alone, never mind what i was doing on top of that and 24 hours later got a /tell asking if i wanted to join a nyzul isle party he was building. Another one converted.
サーバ: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10387
By Siren.Enternius 2009-10-16 03:11:29
Mooshie said: I'm a 75 pup and love the job, mainly for silencing the critics. I was recently invited to a nyzul party where 1 member was openly complaining about pups capability as a dd.
Anyway long story short i used my fully merited blm frame, outdamaged the hell out of his useless *** with my automaton alone, never mind what i was doing on top of that and 24 hours later got a /tell asking if i wanted to join a nyzul isle party he was building. Another one converted. This is exactly where the term "lolpup" comes from. Everyone knows PUP is a perfectly capable DD/Mage/healer (Though will never be the best at any of them). That being said, the reason people say "lolpup" is because of stuff like this, where PUPs act all like "I'm better than you because I'm playing a job that no one likes and I'm good at it". You may have outdamaged an average DD, but not a "good" DD. That alone does not make you a good player.
サーバ: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3615
By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-10-16 03:20:02
No clue what you're talking about. While the person she was up against may have not been the best DD in the world, just because pup isn't the best at everything doesn't make the person playing it not a good player. That probably would have been better off worded as "that alone doesn't make pup a good job as compared to X" As far as how well (s)he plays, has nothing to do w/ the job itself. You can play well on any job.
サーバ: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10387
By Siren.Enternius 2009-10-16 04:03:15
Mooshie said: outdamaged the hell out of his useless *** I rest my case.
Ramuh.Dasva
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-10-16 04:08:59
lolpup. Thinks it can DD. Damn whm frame keeps curing my sorc ringing ***.
Ramuh.Dasva
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-10-16 04:11:34
Vegetto said: Oh damn. I'm glad I'm not on that server lol. I don't think I'd ever be able to handle a party w/ 5 dds and 1 mage. I'd rather go campaign for exp, lol. make some brds jump to your server! And now you know why some rdms hate to merit. This is actually why I retired rdm for awhile. 5 DDs yelling for haste. If any had mp refresh. sleeping the adds that bad pullers would get. Debuffing. Curing DDs that didnt know what that /nin got more then dual wield...
Kujata.Segaia
サーバ: Kujata
Game: FFXI
Posts: 332
By Kujata.Segaia 2009-10-16 04:39:38
Enternius said:
That being said, the reason people say "lolpup" is because of stuff like this, where PUPs act all like "I'm better than you because I'm playing a job that no one likes and I'm good at it". You may have outdamaged an average DD, but not a "good" DD. That alone does not make you a good player.
You're right, but it totally depends on the mob. The difference is, pup can fight mobs a normal DD can fight and fight mobs a normal DD cant, aswell a pup can kill sh*t a normal BLM can and what a normal BLM cant. Tho, don't misunderstand me, i totally see your point and agree. The way DDs do their damage is of course higher than PUPs melee-damage combined with the automatons (sharpshot in mind), no doubt about that, they are made for it, they do it best. But once you face a mob that can be easily damaged by magic.. at 75 and in a party situation pup will win (That's why i said "use Spiritreaver on Mamool staging point"). PUP offers a large range of different damage types at a high tier in comparison to other jobs. What i wanted to say is that a PUP is not the best in everything, but because of the tools they have they can come pretty close at each aspect and depending on the situation even exceed them. Besides don't compare a pup at 74 with a 75PUP. A Fully merited PUP gets the highest damage boost out of all jobs, since optimization alone is +25% in nuking damageand full h2h merits are more than a noticeable boost to the masters DoT. Again, i'm not telling pup is the end-of-all. Aswell as with all jobs it exceeds others in certain situations, the only problem is ppl get butthurt when someone mentions it.
Kujata.Segaia
サーバ: Kujata
Game: FFXI
Posts: 332
By Kujata.Segaia 2009-10-16 04:41:23
Dasva said: lolpup. Thinks it can DD. Damn whm frame keeps curing my sorc ringing ***. Do BLMs get parties over level 50? I can only imagine Kuftal Tunnel, everything above that is pretty much colibris and therefore BLM-unfriendly. If you saw a PUP using his Soulsoother in endgame without the instruction to do so he was doing it wrong.
Seraph.Mooshie
サーバ: Seraph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 101
By Seraph.Mooshie 2009-10-16 07:43:31
Enternius said: Mooshie said: I'm a 75 pup and love the job, mainly for silencing the critics. I was recently invited to a nyzul party where 1 member was openly complaining about pups capability as a dd.
Anyway long story short i used my fully merited blm frame, outdamaged the hell out of his useless *** with my automaton alone, never mind what i was doing on top of that and 24 hours later got a /tell asking if i wanted to join a nyzul isle party he was building. Another one converted. This is exactly where the term "lolpup" comes from. Everyone knows PUP is a perfectly capable DD/Mage/healer (Though will never be the best at any of them). That being said, the reason people say "lolpup" is because of stuff like this, where PUPs act all like "I'm better than you because I'm playing a job that no one likes and I'm good at it". You may have outdamaged an average DD, but not a "good" DD. That alone does not make you a good player. A fair attempt at, and almost a valid point. But sadly; Enternius said: Lolpup.
/endthread That being the second post here makes it quite obvious your sitting on a band wagon and your point isnt worth ***. Get over yourself and move on
サーバ: Garuda
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6310
By Garuda.Wooooodum 2009-10-16 07:51:08
Mooshie said: Enternius said: Mooshie said: I'm a 75 pup and love the job, mainly for silencing the critics. I was recently invited to a nyzul party where 1 member was openly complaining about pups capability as a dd.
Anyway long story short i used my fully merited blm frame, outdamaged the hell out of his useless *** with my automaton alone, never mind what i was doing on top of that and 24 hours later got a /tell asking if i wanted to join a nyzul isle party he was building. Another one converted. This is exactly where the term "lolpup" comes from. Everyone knows PUP is a perfectly capable DD/Mage/healer (Though will never be the best at any of them). That being said, the reason people say "lolpup" is because of stuff like this, where PUPs act all like "I'm better than you because I'm playing a job that no one likes and I'm good at it". You may have outdamaged an average DD, but not a "good" DD. That alone does not make you a good player. A fair attempt at, and almost a valid point. But sadly; Enternius said: Lolpup.
/endthread That being the second post here makes it quite obvious your sitting on a band wagon and your point isnt worth ***. Get over yourself and move on He has a point though, whether he's on the bandwagon or not. If your only response to his very valid point is "Get over yourself and move on", you have the answer to why there's a "lolpup" bandwagon in the first place. And I'm not getting involved aside from that pooint, we just had a LOLPUP thread.
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1488
By Ragnarok.Blindphleb 2009-10-16 08:01:25
What very valid point? All I saw was Enternius saying some words affirming their bias.
 Shiva.Steo
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 63
By Shiva.Steo 2009-10-16 08:04:39
Segaia said: Dasva said: lolpup. Thinks it can DD. Damn whm frame keeps curing my sorc ringing ***. Do BLMs get parties over level 50? I can only imagine Kuftal Tunnel, everything above that is pretty much colibris and therefore BLM-unfriendly. If you saw a PUP using his Soulsoother in endgame without the instruction to do so he was doing it wrong.^^ This So True.......
 Ramuh.Haseyo
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 22442
By Ramuh.Haseyo 2009-10-16 08:10:03
Trying to justify Pup as a "more useful job than xx job" is futile.
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 259
By Sylph.Taruzard 2009-10-16 08:11:35
So is resistance apparantly.
Lakshmi.Aaroca
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 345
By Lakshmi.Aaroca 2009-10-16 08:48:02
Daimos said: My friend just reached 75 pup, and although we tease him about it, I truly am interested to see it in action, since he hasn't shown me much. He is the same way when it comes to complaining though. Also, my take on merit pts with pup is this: There are good and bad of all jobs. The problem is though, for example, is that no one really knows how a pup works, and won't know for sure if they can pump out the damage. "A bad sam is still better than a good pup" - I've heard this alot. This I highly disagree with. The people that say that are the people that play sam, which frankly, is quite alot easier to play than pup. ALOT. Edit: Aaroca said: No one wants a pup in their pt, though I do love them in East Ronfaure[S] pts.
Also no one wants a blu, drk, smn, drg, mnk, thf, pld, nin,rng sch, dnc or whm. What? SAM RDM COR AND BRD ONRY
サーバ: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3615
By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-10-16 09:27:07
Aaroca said: Daimos said: My friend just reached 75 pup, and although we tease him about it, I truly am interested to see it in action, since he hasn't shown me much. He is the same way when it comes to complaining though. Also, my take on merit pts with pup is this: There are good and bad of all jobs. The problem is though, for example, is that no one really knows how a pup works, and won't know for sure if they can pump out the damage. "A bad sam is still better than a good pup" - I've heard this alot. This I highly disagree with. The people that say that are the people that play sam, which frankly, is quite alot easier to play than pup. ALOT. Edit: Aaroca said: No one wants a pup in their pt, though I do love them in East Ronfaure[S] pts.
Also no one wants a blu, drk, smn, drg, mnk, thf, pld, nin,rng sch, dnc or whm. What? SAM RDM COR AND BRD ONRY Birds, I'd have no complaint. For mamools you can do better than sam.
Shiva.Steo
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 63
By Shiva.Steo 2009-10-16 09:55:47
......... PUP FTW!!!
サーバ: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24692
By Ifrit.Kungfuhustle 2009-10-16 09:58:23
Steo said: Segaia said: Dasva said: lolpup. Thinks it can DD. Damn whm frame keeps curing my sorc ringing ***. Do BLMs get parties over level 50? I can only imagine Kuftal Tunnel, everything above that is pretty much colibris and therefore BLM-unfriendly. If you saw a PUP using his Soulsoother in endgame without the instruction to do so he was doing it wrong.^^ This So True....... the last time I had to use my Soulsoother Head during a party was when the healer couldn't keep up and the leader /tell'ed me to switch to it. We died less after that.
サーバ: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10387
By Siren.Enternius 2009-10-16 10:07:02
Enternius said: Lolpup.
/endthread Aka sarcasm.
サーバ: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24692
By Ifrit.Kungfuhustle 2009-10-16 10:13:33
Enternius said: Enternius said: Lolpup.
/endthread Aka sarcasm. I sensed stupidity more than sarcasm
Phoenix.Darkodin
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 29
By Phoenix.Darkodin 2009-10-16 10:26:10
The reason ppl keep saying lolpup is because they like thinking narrow, they keep each job in functions like SAM is DD etc and PUP can switch to many things, just like BLU can do many things but most ppl just choose to use it as DD... Also other jobs like SAM are much easier to play, especially when u get ppl who only DD on it and don't even think to use Seigan/Third Eye when grabbing hate XD. It's too hard to play for some ppl to make it worthwhile so they just go lolpup and lvl the same jobs that everyone does...
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 318
By Odin.Ahligieri 2009-10-16 10:56:27
Phoenix has SAMs that stupid? To never consider seig/eye? I've seen a lot of weak *** SAMs on Odin, but they know to go, "hey if I use these here ja's, I don't get hit for a little while."
There's like 0 PUPs on Odin adamant to prove the job's capabilities. So I have noooo idea how good they are, or aren't :(
Cerberus.Jiko
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1741
By Cerberus.Jiko 2009-10-16 14:34:14
Blah blah blah. lolpup... blah blah blah... pups are awesome... blah blah blah.
Who the *** cares by now. Pup is a job you either like it or you dont. Pups that are complaining about never get parties obviously never attempted to make a party, so either quit being lazy or stop bitching.
People that go "lolpup"... Let them go. Ignorance is bliss.
/end thread
Edit: Osnap, Im on pup. Let the flaming begin.
サーバ: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3615
By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-10-16 16:18:51
Jiko said: Pups that are complaining about never get parties obviously never attempted to make a party, so either quit being lazy or stop bitching.
This. Went to lv 75 in 3 and a half weeks. Made every one of my pts.
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3663
By Sylph.Beelshamen 2009-10-16 16:54:13
Vegetto said: Jiko said: Pups that are complaining about never get parties obviously never attempted to make a party, so either quit being lazy or stop bitching.
This. Went to lv 75 in 3 and a half weeks. Made every one of my pts. Yeah, but you probably have to have a lot of experience with finding camps and making parties if you want to take a job to 75 making your own. It's not actually as easy to click on a site and check leverl range + area and head out.
サーバ: Garuda
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6310
By Garuda.Wooooodum 2009-10-16 16:55:39
Beelshamen said: Yeah, but you probably have to have a lot of experience with finding camps and making parties if you want to take a job to 75 making your own. This is experience anyone on any job should have, though. It's not just a PUP specific "I don't get invites" skill.
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3663
By Sylph.Beelshamen 2009-10-16 16:58:37
As you level camps and mobs change drastically and new camps are found out once in a while. Also people get setback when they get a crap party once in a while. You're not always going to get fantastic parties no matter if you always have a dream setup.
Just got done tab farming with a PUP I know. He good at his job, and honestly, he seems to be one of the very few PUPs who know how to play it.
But.
He sent me a tell later complaining that he de-leveled while trying to skill up his Automaton. This guy de-levels a *LOT*. I'm talking, 5 times a week, probably. I then asked him, "What do you consider a buffer and why don't you have one?" His response : "10k. And I'm a PUP. No one cares about us. No one invites us to parties."
I'm sorry, but...
What?
I was going to post this on KI, but the intelligence level on KI is absolutely absurd, so, I'm asking you ffxiah.com, and to all the other PUPs. Now, before you read too much into this, it's a simple question. I'm seriously trying to figure out what's wrong with the majority of the PUP community. Maybe it's just Asura.
Why do you level the job, then complain about not getting anything from the community?
I think the thing that people don't understand is that PUPs who stand there and play the "Oh, woe is me" game seriously ruin it for other PUPs who are actually GOOD at their job and who actually understand how to play it correctly.
This other PUP I knew would complain that no one would take him in merit parties, Nyzul, etc... Yet, PUP is his only 75. And I asked him why he doesn't level anything else. His response : "I'm not going to level something just to get accepted into the community."
... yet... He complains that he's not getting accepted.
I'm so confused... (Help me out!)
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