What Buffs Would You Pick?

Yet you complained about BLU back then, stop being a hypocrite lol

His very first post wasn't complaining at all, it was confirming what OP wrote about what jobs would you like to see become as OP as RDM and MNK and then he included what and why in a well written explaination. Then you wrote all that rubbish lol. Theres only 1 person salty here and its the one who can't read.

His response

You should just stfu anytime now

You were the one who went off topic by calling certain job OP and demanding an "adjustment"(obviously a nerf based on how I read it)


Then you backtracked by saying you didnt ask for a nerf? Ok. Entire post just seems salty towards certain jobs when you could have phrase it in a more positive way.

That is the most lousy and stupid retort anyone has every given. Not only did you have nothing to use to back up your side on rdm is OP, but you were backed so far into a corner that you changed subject from your rdm/blu comparison to saying mnk now.

If you think mnk just steam rolls stuff solo or is magically OP, you might need to double check your level of gear/skill on your blu. I have seen what BiS mnk and BiS blu can do on the same content. The dps is actually pretty similar, the difference is blu's much higher level of survival standing. You can't even try to compare blu vs mnk, malignance, cocoon, mythic AM3. Malignance alone has 51 stp, that doesn't include the STP 30 from traits or the triple attack, or the AM3 and tp bonus offhand weapon, or the low recast self heals, or the self cap -delay from DW traits and 43% haste....

You are reaching at this point.

I complained about different things from you.

My first couple of posts wasn't replying to Draylo either. It was to replying to Shichishito's BS claim about "RDM OP". This was my 1st post.


Then draylo just randomly joined the conversation and decided to reply everything I said because he hold a grudge over BLU discussion from 2015.

To be fair idk about any past events in your relationship, I just read from page 1 and seen this thread get derailed over nothing.

It isn't my fault. Simply asked why "RDM is OP" because I was curious, I got 0 logical explanations and bombarded with 2015 BLU hate from Draylo, lol.

I feel that, its been heated on alot of threads lately.

I 100% understand people that favor a job see a weakness in the jobs.
I see weaknesses in all the jobs I play, that doesn't mean I think drk should have -defense removed, I don't see why blu needs an update, mnk damn sure doesn't need self haste, rdm doesn't need innate stp or DW no matter how much I need it.

But to sit here and say rdm or mnk is OP because the top 1% of players can do some insane ***is just stupid.

Blu has amazing abilities as it is, giving it duration gear to the buffs would be nice, even if only a 60 second change. Is it needed? No. Not in the least. QoL, sure. Potency buffs to spells? No, does not need that at all. What on earth would you need potency buffs for? It seems like a utility complaint. Blu has plenty of utility. It does not need everything a rdm has on top of everything blu already has.

blu vs mnk? Really, is that seriously a question? Mnk has how many things going for it? Decent dps, some counter, and subtle blow.... That shouldn't even be a topic, mnk also needs way more support and has no real enmity actions like a blu.

The top 1% of blu can do just as impressive things as the top %1 of any other job. I have even seen geo/nin DW clubs in dyna racking up 4k+ dps before.

Wat? This is nonsense. You're thinking of MNK.


Then why was BLU OP back in the day? Despite what people think, BLU was not the best at anything, let alone everything all at once, and making use of its utility or defensive capabilities did have an impact on DPS. BLU has always had downsides, people just ignored them. And yea we get a lot of traits, but we get no native traits and no real useful JAs.


Wat? A BLU using a full complement of its survival capabilities is not doing the same DPS as a MNK doing the same with its abilities. If they're both going all out DD with BiS, DPS should be similar, but in that case there is no way a BLU is significantly sturdier than a MNK. Even setting an HP boost trait (which is pretty trivial) still puts BLU over 1k hp behind MNK most of the time, and it gets access to both Malignance and Ken+1.

BLU wasn't OP back then, MNK and RDM aren't OP now. The game is probably more balanced now than it's ever been. BLU doesn't "need" an adjustment but tbh most jobs don't either. Buff duration, Unbridled Learning, CA/BA could all use adjustments, which would improve BLU without making a huge impact on job balance overall. The thread is about wishlists after all, no?

Is it possible for SE to add a stat for BLU for Blue Magic Duration to affect both buffs and debuffs while not affecting the damage potency?

Flashga and utu grip on paladin

If you are in a full buff situation, very unlikely you will even need to use all of blu utility.

Are you trying to compare solo blu to a supported mnk? Yeah, that is going to be pretty different. But you aren't even correctly comparing them. You are comparing a blu using 100% full utility in a situation that it isn't even needed.
Either you have a tank and healers, in which case you don't need the full utility of blu or you are solo, and in that case mnk still doesn't compare to everything in blu arsenal for survival.

You seriously think mnk is more sturdy? That isn't even a comparison. Counter and HP are no competition for +50% defense and self cures. Self cures on a dd job will always be the most sturdy factor of any job. Being able to DD and use sanguine blade or magic fruit with +50% bonus to defense vs counter and a 3 minute cooldown full cure that MIGHT have regen if you use the merits for it.
Same reason so many drk use Apoc to this day even though the dps is lower than other options. The self cure is the biggest tool for survival out of anything in the game.

Yes it was, any time you see "specific job only" shouts, it is OP. Blu was easily abused by low end players with easy to obtain gear. Blu had the most utility, and gave up the least downsides of any job to be the top dd, best support, capable tank, and back up healer/erase. It eliminated the need for a brd, and the lack of brd was the reason that so many 2hd dd jobs were on the verge of finding their way in a coffin.
If a single job is nearly wiping out all other jobs from being used, it is OP.
Mnk and Nin were OP in abyssea, Mnk was OP during first wave of Delve, Sam was OP during second wave of delve. Thf was OP at the Rudra buff. Blu was OP during SR and Escha all the way until the beginning of Reisen. Then BST was OP until the nerf. Then it was sch and blm for sc/mb setups. Then it was smn which still hasn't been nerfed, but other jobs have been built up so much that now you can avoid smn burn on any content in the game. People still heavily rely on smn burns though because it is the easiest path.
If any job right now is unbalanced it would be cor. You want to talk about steam rolling content. 3 double rostam cor with whm, brd, and geo can probably face roll everything but dyna wave 3.

I will agree with your statement that the game is the most balanced it has been in a long time, but the rest of it I disagree with.


Wish list? I would like to see nin with a Dark element based Throwing Weapon skill. I don't even play nin, but that would be awesome.
Or unlock campaign weapon skills. Nothing screams OP as *** like Uriel Blade on Crocea.

Only need 1 really ._____.

***. It means people are morons or just lazy or both. You never needed a BLU or 2 BLUs for anything. BRD lagging behind the times is a BRD problem, not a BLU problem. Notice how nobody asks for double BLU for the purpose of capping haste any more, despite essentially nothing being changed about BLU's haste? Yea, cuz it was never a real problem with BLU to begin with.

BLU is good in lowman, that has always been the case, and is appropriate. It suffered in Alli content and to some extent it still does, at least in comparison to what it brings to lowman and solo, because Alli content favors specialists and BLU has to go out of its way to specialize in anything, and is still not the best at it (except for cleaving).


What the hell are you talking about? It was NEVER the top DD. It was a capable DD that could bring utility. The more utility you brought, the less DPS potential you had, both in terms of traits and time spent casting spells. You can be all those things but you can't be all of them at once. BLU is simply more flexible and self-sufficient than most other jobs, because it is supposed to be. "Best" support? Really?


If most of BLU's survival tools become mostly meaningless because your support line is taking care of you, then the fact is that BLU is, at a baseline, more squishy than MNK. And when BLU uses its spells and such to buff its defenses to be less squishy, it is sacrificing time DPSing. It's a trade-off.


No, I don't know where you're getting that from.


So, a couple things.
1, you're underestimating the value of counter and the significantly larger HP pool. Also, Dodge, Spharai, Perfect Counter and Counterstance are things, and may be more or less useful depending on exactly what you're fighting (seriously, Dodge is really nice on medium stuff, it's not just evasion, it's guard rate too). Someone also mentioned in another thread a while back that /blu on monk with Counterstance and cocoon is safe and effective, so that's also a potential viable setup. +50% Defense is awesome, but MNK isn't exactly lacking defensive tools, and the lower hp pool makes it more essential for BLU survival in the short term than for a MNK.

2, I would never argue that BLU is not sturdy. Of the light melees, it might arguably be the sturdiest. But BLU has to be pretty active to maintain all of it's offenses and defenses, and the low to moderate hp pool is a liability. Monk can walk through a lot of ***and full cure to walk through a bunch more ***before it dies, and it's absolutely demolishing stuff the whole time. Which brings me to the main points that I want to bring up, which is that BLU maintaining its "max sturdiness" is not going to be DPSing at the same rate as a MNK doing the same. Like the DRK with Apoc you mentioned, it's trading off. MNK doesn't cast spells (assuming not /blu) and most of its defenses are passive or one-off JAs.

Without any backline support, I would put money on the BLU surviving longer than the MNK in any fight where one-shots aren't a concern. In that sense, BLU is far sturdier than MNK. But it will take longer to kill stuff, let's not pretend otherwise, and while the two are alive the MNK is going to do more damage. And besides, "solo" almost always means "with 5 trusts" so honestly it is a totally fair comparison, self-cure has less impact.

Blu was OP, pretending it wasn't is horseshit and you know it.

Blu nearly killed any and all other dps jobs because it was OP.
It was a top dps because nobody was wasting time taking a brd around for higher dps jobs because blu didn't need as much support. Top end blu at the time were even keeping up with top end 2hd dps roles. That was proven many times over on fights like WoC where the blu would be just as high on dps or higher than war and drk. And that was after blu started to taper off. It took SE nerfing NM evasion for other jobs to be taken.

You want to bring up sub jobs for mnk? ok, what about the subjobs for blu? Blu can change sub jobs too, you can't bring up one point and not apply it to the other job.

That is why I said you are trying to compare on unequal grounds. Put them both in the exact same scenario in all points. Don't keep picking scenarios to make mnk look better.

Zerg cases, blu still has MG, cocoon, self cures and stun

Solo, blu can still use dd spells, wear 5/5 malignance, self cap haste, self cure, self erase (not including items), use AM3 with tp bonus offhand to keep damage on par with typical dps gear with over 80 stp in gear and traits.

Tank builds, yeah mnk can sub blu, but blu can use all the same /blu spells and more, it can also sub pld or rune fencer. Giving it more defense , still has low recast magical stun and all the same hybrid gear with am3, sanguine blade, savage blade, cdc, expiacion and an insane amount of defense.

Yes, any time you are focusing on max sturdiness, the dps will suffer, even on mnk. The difference was, still is and will never change. MNK DOES NOT HAVE SELF CURE, the absolute most critical part of survivability is the ability to maintain your survivability with the least amount of support. If a whm gets wrecked, guess which one is going to stay alive in the end? The jobs that can heal themselves.

Counter doesn't work on spells or tp moves, also takes a lot of gear changing for those counter builds which lowers your overall dps and you are forced to need top enmity for it to matter. You can't counter from behind it.

HP doesn't make you sturdy, drk gets more hp than any other job in the game. But you still need a way to keep that hp up. Dread spikes and -dt only take you so far.

"In that sense, BLU is far sturdier than MNK. But it will take longer to kill stuff" What a couple of seconds shaved off the fight? Assuming mnk gets to keep top enmity for all the counters to land. And still needs.... wait for it.... cures from someone else.

/ja “Chakra” <OP>

That isn't a qualification of certain job being "not OP" though.

If I change the word "BLU" to "SMN" in the above sentence the same principle still applies.

"SMN was never needed to clear aeonics. It was cleared before SMN burn strat discovered. The reason why people abused SMN because they were lazy"

Funny things is that people complained about SMN OP despite it was never needed, it just made things easy for lazy people. Now the same standard can't apply to BLU in 2015.

Edit: you guys can keep bringing up "community bandwagon doesn't count" or "X jobs are defensive too" as counter argument. But I wouldn't change my stance. FFXI is all about playing jobs that you like. If certain job/setup/strategy are heavily favored, to the point that other jobs got kicked out, because it "made things easier" then something needs a change.

BLU was heavily favored in 2015. MNK was slightly favored but it's not nearly as bad as BLU 2015. To me current situation is acceptable. You guys can blame the community all you want but it doesn't matter. Changing how community do content is what job adjustments are about.

If I knew it, I wouldn't be writing posts arguing otherwise.


BRD problem. BRD songs were adjusted and lo and behold, BLUx2 wasn't a big thing any more. It was BRD that needed adjusting, not BLU.


Nah, depending on the fight and what defenses you're using it could make a big difference. I've soloed this months ambu on VE on both jobs and MNK was a LOT faster, for example. But it also could not have lasted as long as it took for my BLU to kill it. I'm not saying that's universally true, but BLU's dps does fall off quite a bit if you're having to cast a lot, and MNK's does not nearly as much. Depending on the fight, a MNK may survive by simply killing faster and having enough hp to live through it.


Yea, and if you sub pld or rune your dps is going to suffer for it. Likewise if you cast all of those spells, and frequently. Hell, in Dyna-D, just being stun *** alone can drop you to 3rd or so in the parse, and that's with other people curing and buffing you. MNK does not suffer nearly as much in its DPS using its defensive tools (and gear; it's on both malig and ken), but is more limited in them, and most of its offensive tools don't have a defensive penalty.


As for spells, see Ken + Malig gear. Yea you can't counter TP moves but you can guard them, and TP moves are not the only thing you have to worry about (also the mob will be doing less of them in a solo situation. A lot less). It does not take that much gear changing to get a reasonable counter rate. You don't have to cap it, and MNK starts at 27%. Spharai alone takes you to 41%, and you can make a kick build around its AM. As for enmity, since we're talking about sturdiness, I'm assuming a mob looking at you and swinging is part of our considerations, so that's an odd point to make. And if you're solo, it's a fair assumption the mob is looking at you.


This is just false by definition. Maybe we ought to differentiate between "survivability" and "sturdiness." I've already said that in the total absence of a back line, BLU has the clear advantage. Of course it does. But this is not a common scenario.


Lol, who's picking scenarios to make a job look better now? What if the mob has a high damage AoE? MNK is more likely to survive that than BLU, both in terms of just raw max HP as well as the fact that any prior damage that hasn't been healed yet is going to be much more of a liability to those with lower HP pools to start with. I am trying to take the jobs' capabilities in consideration for multiple scenarios in which they are head to head, and getting a sense of overall resilience on balance.

I'd also like to point out my exact words:


I never claimed MNK was sturdier than BLU. I said in the case of max DD (which I am assuming includes a robust back line), the defensive advantages of BLU count for less. This is the same story over and over again with BLU. It's *** amazing until you have other a bunch of other people covering all of the things you can do for yourself, and better. When you don't have a backline, the jobs with the most diverse capabilities will shine.

So I guess maybe "survivability" could pertain more to being able to survive longer, sustained solo fights, whereas "sturdiness" might pertain to how difficult it is for your party to keep you alive/how likely you are to be in a situation where one attack takes you to 0 hp. BLU has a clear advantage in the former, but in the latter I'd say it's probably a wash.

Then we fundamentally disagree on the definition. I've never thought that what people shout for is what determines if a job is OP, I think it should be in the mechanics. People aren't always very bright. If they're shouting because game mechanics makes that job necessary for most content as opposed to its peer jobs, then that is potentially OP.

Also, I have literally never argued that SMN is OP. I don't think it is.


Right, which is why adjusting BRD is what "fixed" the BLU problem. BLU was not OP, BRD was broken.

EDIT: Oh also I just want to say that I agree that Tiz/Thib with Malignance is peak BLUness. I was shocked by that set, and that they put BLU on it.

BRD alone isn't what fixed the BLU problem. The BRD fix also added more power to COR buffs via equipment and a nerfed Geo-Vex, which made using Frailty/Torpor/Haste much more appealing options.

In the context of pre-Omen, BLU was virtually the only viable melee job outside of multiple Idris-GEOs being used.

its funny cause i remember a rare instance where i had a MNK (pre buff) in ambuscade, i think tank and WHM got wrecked so BLU started backup healing to keep the rest alive till WHM and tank got back on their feet. BLU consequently pulled hate and got murdered, then spharai MNK took over (only one left alive) and drove it home like it was nothing.

i also still see ppl harping for a SMN nerf, did no one notice that most of the new content completely shut down conduit zerging? unless you haven't noticed, SE rarely directly nerfs jobs these days cause it makes too many ppl mad. instead they alter content to make it extremely unfriendly to a particular jobs perks. its weird that the community is so easily fooled.

I wonder why the BST and PUP players might not respond well to you? Think it might be because of obnoxious comments like your first reply in this topic?

Also... punching down much? Yeah, let's trash the less popular jobs when there's no reason to do that in a thread that's about hypothetical buffs to your favorite jobs. You get pretty damn sensitive whenever people dare to speak ill of BLU, yet you're going out of your way to take unprovoked shots at what are already two of the more niche jobs in the game.

This is so untrue lol, the only viable melee job? Care to explain how?



Why would you not want them to affect potency as well? Most BLU do not even cast Blue Magic which is a downfall in design. We need gear that also enhances potency because it could open up new play styles by allowing older spells to be used. For an example, we could have something like Infrasonics being potent enough to allow less ACC adjustments when using tib offhand in certain scenarios. Making a potency upgrade via gear would be a huge buff for BLU and play off its utility without directly increasing its damage output to pass other more focused DD jobs.

Your walls of text are so biased, you don't even try. This part alone is hilarious and shows your lack of understanding:

"HP doesn't make you sturdy, drk gets more hp than any other job in the game. But you still need a way to keep that hp up. Dread spikes and -dt only take you so far. "

WAT. HP doesn't make you sturdy? So people praising MNKs high HP, and the sturdiness of DRK with 9999 HP are all mislead? MNK doesn't have a self cure via Chakra or their 1h? You're out of your league.

It isn't lazy, I simply realize I can spend my time better than arguging with one of Afanaias buddies. I've hardly been backed into a corner, I gave all my opinions and reasoning for them. Go back and read them as you clearly have not.

You're free to argue but I don't think youre worth my time for a well thought out response. My opinion has not changed. You keep bringing up some ridiculous things it makes me cringe reading your posts. Saying stuff like MNK isn't sturdy because HP doesn't matter or BLU is more sturdy casting all kinds of buffs. I just gave examples earlier how that matters NOTHING, Taint even said he clears in 30s casting minimal buffs yet a BLU has to stand there casting all these buffs every minute while feeding TP and eating WS from the enemy.

Your qualification is YOUR qualification. Who says that is the rule? Just because the village idiots decide x job is the only one they can use, does not make something OP. These people are not aware of all the meta in the game and it does not mean x job is the most optimal because these people saw it in a video. How many times have people come to the forums and said "oh they just saw it in a video and thats all they know"?

To make it clear: Afania thinks a job is only considered OP if they are shouting for 24/7 over all other jobs. Yet he doesn't consider GEO OP, because reasons. It is just an extremely short sited criteria to have to consider something unbalanced.

Also to respond to your earlier question, I never asked for nerfs in general and that is true. I simply said the jobs I thought were currently unbalanced and when I mentioned SMN, I said it would easily be off that list if they adjusted conduit. I didn't say they should nerf it, and obviously we all know SE is currently ninja nerfing SMN in new battles when all they had to do was adjust conduit.

That's a key comment. All personal opinions and nothing objective to compare against.