More than that, we'd basically need 3 or more characters, all at wing skill start of 0, one with no silks, blue silks, and sky blue silks, and keeping meticulous track of exactly how many successful digs/items occurred per rank every single rank from 0 through 100.
Doing this gives a rough baseline of the digs per rank, if it's linear or hard changes at a specific rank, and to what degree the silks impact it which can help with insinuating if it's varying exp per rank or just varying skillup rate per rank.
But uh, yeah, good luck with finding anyone insane enough to track that for months. I barely managed to do it for myself and I didn't even track every single skill level since it was pre-wing skill, or have perfect consistent usage lol.
Mastery Rank Data
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Mastery Rank Data
You don't need to do any silks tomfoolery to know if it's an exp-based system, all you need to do is track 2 people's skillup / dig ratio.
If they don't have the exact same number of digs, it isn't an exp system. Then you say "oh well a pebble is worth more exp than gil" or whatever to justify it. It doesn't matter, because ultimately there's nothing you can do with this information if it were true, but it's totally silly. It is good to be skeptical, but your argument pre-supposes that all items have exactly the same EXP value. We know this cannot be true given the data already reported.
The fact things can be seen with a strong correlation and a pretty linear increase in the number of successful digs through the lower value to the higher value wing skills is enough to show that Chocobo digging does not operate on a system of random .1s. The very low ranks during digging do not even take 10 digs to get a wing skill and on average it seems to go up closer 1.4x digs per level and increasing to over 2x digs per level in the mid-range. If it operated on 10 separate 'skill ups' intervals we'd see pretty wild swings even from level to level and not a variation of ~10%. Here is the first part from Akumasama's data: 6 > 7 = 8 7 > 8 = 9 8 > 9 = 10 9 > 10 = 11 10 > 11 = 14 11 > 12 = 13 12 > 13 = 15 13 > 14 = 16 14 > 15 = 19 15 > 16 = 22 16 > 17 = 23 17 > 18 = 26 18 > 19 = 22 19 > 20 = 25 20 > 21 = 24 21 > 22 = 28 22 > 23 = 29 23 > 24 = 34 24 > 25 = 35 25 > 26 = 36 26 > 27 = 37 27 > 28 = 43 28 > 29 = ? We see a clear progression with a few outliers - from this we can assume that some items may be worth more EXP than others, and I am not sure if this counts beastmen caches (probably, but Akumasama may confirm) - yet we see a clear progression. It may be that Pebbles give 1 exp and something like a mythril beastcoin gives 2 exp. If you have multiple people reporting similar bands of digs for the levels you can make a statistical comparison to reveal that (barring errors) that dig values are not occurring out of some .1 or .2 basis and that it is exactly as said 'experience' is being gained and those gains are in a fairly small band. Also this evidence goes to show there is no 'test item' or point at which an item or zone becomes useless for digging. Chocobo Digging does not operate like a regular craft guild. What would you then say about pulling up multiple items? My skillup bird was bore + burrow, and depending whether or not I used the egg helm I could get as many as 4-5 items per dig.
As far as I'm aware, you only get a skillup once per dig as long as it's a success (you don't get multiple sky blue silks messages for multiple items, only one per dig). The difference in his numbers could simply be that he didn't get random skillups some days more than others, which would explain why a 26 was before a 22/25/24. After the crafting skillup rework, there's a huge chance to get them at lower levels (isn't it like 50% without campaign all the way to 60 now?) and at a high chance it normalizes pretty well, while something like a 10% or 1% chance will show way more variance rank to rank. As I mentioned, my early ranks flew by as well, I was into the 40s within a week or two only. But post 70, it would take 2-4 weeks to get a 10 tier jump. So either the "exp" requirement gets way higher, or the skillup rate drops. Honestly, given that the system likely reuses the same levels as crafting, it stands to reason it has the same skillup system, and I know people who only dug up garbage every day (me) who still capped quicker than those hunting rare items the whole time while they did it. AeryBahamut said: » It is good to be skeptical, but your argument pre-supposes that all items have exactly the same EXP value. We know this cannot be true given the data already reported. The fact things can be seen with a strong correlation and a pretty linear increase in the number of successful digs through the lower value to the higher value wing skills is enough to show that Chocobo digging does not operate on a system of random .1s. The very low ranks during digging do not even take 10 digs to get a wing skill and on average it seems to go up closer 1.4x digs per level and increasing to over 2x digs per level in the mid-range. If it operated on 10 separate 'skill ups' intervals we'd see pretty wild swings even from level to level and not a variation of ~10%. Here is the first part from Akumasama's data: 6 > 7 = 8 7 > 8 = 9 8 > 9 = 10 9 > 10 = 11 10 > 11 = 14 11 > 12 = 13 12 > 13 = 15 13 > 14 = 16 14 > 15 = 19 15 > 16 = 22 16 > 17 = 23 17 > 18 = 26 18 > 19 = 22 19 > 20 = 25 20 > 21 = 24 21 > 22 = 28 22 > 23 = 29 23 > 24 = 34 24 > 25 = 35 25 > 26 = 36 26 > 27 = 37 27 > 28 = 43 28 > 29 = ? We see a clear progression with a few outliers - from this we can assume that some items may be worth more EXP than others, and I am not sure if this counts beastmen caches (probably, but Akumasama may confirm) - yet we see a clear progression. It may be that Pebbles give 1 exp and something like a mythril beastcoin gives 2 exp. If you have multiple people reporting similar bands of digs for the levels you can make a statistical comparison to reveal that (barring errors) that dig values are not occurring out of some .1 or .2 basis and that it is exactly as said 'experience' is being gained and those gains are in a fairly small band. Also this evidence goes to show there is no 'test item' or point at which an item or zone becomes useless for digging. Chocobo Digging does not operate like a regular craft guild. Couldn't we just as easily assume it works like fishing. Low levels you get skill ups often with fairly common +2s. High level skill ups are +1 only and few and far between. This is how I always assumed it worked. See also: every crafting skill, combat skills, and magic skills.
.2 are possible and common on low level crafts. .5 are possible on combat and magic skills. There's nothing at all to show that it couldn't be exactly the same as all the other skill up systems in the game. I've think I've seen a 0.3 on crafting once (not personally, someone's screenshot). I think they were attempting something far above their current skill but still lower than the auto break point.
Kayte said: » I've think I've seen a 0.3 on crafting once (not personally, someone's screenshot). I think they were attempting something far above their current skill but still lower than the auto break point. ...this doesn't help or anything. I'm just saying. I remember getting 0.3s from crafting ages ago (like, PS2 times), but I never saw a 0.4 iirc.
I think it's similar to melee skills where the difference between your skill and the cap at the level of the monster you are fighting determines the distribution. So, if you are really under skilled for the monster you are fighting, the skill ups can be higher (e.g. 0.3). So if you have a high level gap between your current level and the synth you are attempting, then you are more likely to see 0.2/0.3. Advanced support and skill gear lets you complete recipes with a large skill gap and thus allow you to see higher numbers. Crafting also has a level 60 skill up cliff, though, where it is way easier to skill up 0 to 60 than 60 to 110. I don't know whether that affects the rate or the amount when you skill up, but it wouldn't shock me to learn that 0.3 is impossible above level 60.
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You get the .3s and .4s by trying stuff way over your cap, like 10 plus levels higher. Not worth it because you can only get them on successes, not breaks.
Phoenix.Michelob said: » You get the .3s and .4s by trying stuff way over your cap, like 10 plus levels higher. Not worth it because you can only get them on successes, not breaks. Quote: ---------------- Break (Joespreadsheet) ----------------- Synthesis failed. You lost the crystal you were using. ------------- NQ Synthesis (Joespreadsheet) ------------- Joespreadsheet's alchemy skill rises 0.3 points. You synthesized 12 jars of yellow textile dye. ------------- NQ Synthesis (Joespreadsheet) ------------- Joespreadsheet's alchemy skill rises 0.4 points. You synthesized 12 jars of yellow textile dye. ------------- NQ Synthesis (Joespreadsheet) ------------- Joespreadsheet's alchemy skill rises 0.4 points. Joespreadsheet's alchemy skill reaches level 18. You synthesized 12 jars of yellow textile dye. ------------- NQ Synthesis (Joespreadsheet) ------------- Joespreadsheet's alchemy skill rises 0.3 points. You synthesized 12 jars of yellow textile dye. ------------- NQ Synthesis (Joespreadsheet) ------------- Joespreadsheet's alchemy skill rises 0.2 points. You synthesized 12 jars of yellow textile dye. ---------------- Break (Joespreadsheet) ----------------- Synthesis failed. You lost the crystal you were using. ---------------- Break (Joespreadsheet) ----------------- Synthesis failed. You lost the crystal you were using. An onz of turmeric was lost. ---------------- Break (Joespreadsheet) ----------------- Synthesis failed. You lost the crystal you were using. ---------------- Break (Joespreadsheet) ----------------- Synthesis failed. You lost the crystal you were using. An onz of turmeric was lost. ------------- NQ Synthesis (Joespreadsheet) ------------- Joespreadsheet's alchemy skill rises 0.3 points. Joespreadsheet's alchemy skill reaches level 19. So this checks out! (the fail rate isn't THAT bad between +4 from support+Trainee item, Macaron+Patissiere's Ring, Ionis, and Artificer's Ring... but it's still bad, but the recipe is one of those dirt cheap single NPC material ones that I love to spam 0-70 if I can) Aha, I knew I wasn't hallucinating. I think it's theoretically possible to get 0.5s on crafting as well, but you have to be attempting something like 20+ levels above you which you're going to be breaking like 95% lol.
Well for fishing you can only get .2s for something over a certain threshold above your skill cap - the penguin ring merely doubles the chance to skill up so it is possible to get .3 or .4 on a single fish - but those will be at most .2 and .2 from the ring(s) effect.
Which is actually more evidence that fishing is different from the other crafts, and with more unique options like Chocobo Digging which is still more unique would be something akin to this as well. Anyways, I made my point and saw the observation that English and Japanese referred to experience in the campaign - making it more likely that digging operates on exp from success basis. If it were like other crafts with .1s possible on a failure we'd see # of digs, not # of successes. If it operated like a normal guild it would have a test item to advance, and items would have a skill cap - all this we know for a fact cannot be the case. I did not think it would be controversial, but if digging operates like other guilds it would not have been a hidden mechanic for over 20 years. Anyone have any insight to share for getting the campaign ops 'Bridge too far' and 'By Light of Fire' to appear?
https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/55467/mastery-rank-data/35/#3601334
By Light of Fire was spot on for me, but on my server it took like 20 clears of Pit Spider per rank for Bastok, at least. I can't recall Bridge Too Far exactly, it's been a while. EDIT: more info a bit further down the page: https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/55467/mastery-rank-data/35/#3602119 I've said it before and I'll say it again, my irrational belief is that it's those damn nation stats and not "exactly 16 clears"... but beyond that yeah absolutely
I've said that as well. It's entirely likely that it only requires a specific level of certain stats, and just doing campaign ops raises the stats needed for later tiers.
I did ops years ago when basically zero others touched it so I had a lot of experience being the only one influencing them, and I would sometimes see new tiers or ops unlock as the week went on just as stats grew from campaign battles and stuff. It would also explain why often when some people do certain ops, other ones unlock as well. But if your goal is just to get access then the simplest way to guarantee it is doing the lower tier ones a large amount of times (about 20 maximum for me, 10 if you have a corresponding strategy/commander, 5 if you had both). Campaign (and its ops) is a hugely complex system meant for the entire server to use but it was never popular enough for anyone to fully mine its depths of what every component does. Kayte said: » (about 20 maximum for me, 10 if you have a corresponding strategy/commander, 5 if you had both) apparently it's this? https://ffxiclopedia.fandom.com/wiki/Tactical_Assessment players vote every IRL week for this?! edit: actually you know stuff, are there better ways to push those nation ratings up than that? or is it just that. like if I had infinite effort but limited time, would I want to be doing campaign battles or something or are Ops as good as it gets? Just ranked up to 8. The upgrade was caused by taking chocobo digging from 38 to 40. I have a crafting shield.
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LightningHelix said: » haha I literally don't even know what these mean, is that tied to like the NPC recruitment or something? apparently it's this? https://ffxiclopedia.fandom.com/wiki/Tactical_Assessment players vote every IRL week for this?! edit: actually you know stuff, are there better ways to push those nation ratings up than that? or is it just that. like if I had infinite effort but limited time, would I want to be doing campaign battles or something or are Ops as good as it gets? Correct yes. Dunno if it's highest total votes or just randomly pick one that was voted for. When basically no one was doing it, I voted the same way on 4 chars and would get what I voted for like 99% of the time. You can pick two strategies that supposedly better certain ops, but it might just make the stats easier to gain or something. Same thing with a commander, though more of a pain because nothing reports the commander that actually won. But when I lined them both up on the same ops, I'd only have to clear 5 instead of 20 a lot of the time.
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I've bought all of the maze runes that I can from Chatnachoq in Lower Jeuno. I've got 2 questions about MMM:
1.) How do I get the other runes, like 49-60, etc? 2.) I've been spamming Maze Voucher 09, and trading my MMM card to the NPC afterwards, but my boss choices are the same: Gumdrop, the 2nd one and Babalu Eye. How do I get the other tiers of NMs to show up? :( Trade your card before picking the NM to fight.
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Bismarck.Sterk said: » Trade your card before picking the NM to fight. Well, ***. (-_-;) Thank you sir. Felgarr said: » 1.) How do I get the other runes, like 49-60, etc? Some Runes will only drop without the Lost & Found Rune. There is a table which may or may not be accurate: https://ffxiclopedia.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Maze_Runes Of the 49-60 range, only 51-56 actually exist* (nobody knows why the others were not added), and they only drop with Lost & Found. My preferred spamming voucher is 07 (Liquidation Team, one NM), and I can personally confirm that those six runes do drop from Voucher 07 + Lost & Found. (so for that specific data point the ffxiclopedia table is accurate) * by which I mean here's an excerpt from windower's res\items.lua: Quote: [28845] = {id=28845,en="Maze Rune 046",ja="メイズルーン046",enl="Maze Rune 046",jal="メイズルーン046",category="Maze",flags=63168,stack=1,targets=1,type=25}, [28850] = {id=28850,en="Maze Rune 051",ja="メイズルーン051",enl="Maze Rune 051",jal="メイズルーン051",category="Maze",flags=63168,stack=1,targets=1,type=25}, [28851] = {id=28851,en="Maze Rune 052",ja="メイズルーン052",enl="Maze Rune 052",jal="メイズルーン052",category="Maze",flags=63168,stack=1,targets=1,type=25}, [28852] = {id=28852,en="Maze Rune 053",ja="メイズルーン053",enl="Maze Rune 053",jal="メイズルーン053",category="Maze",flags=63168,stack=1,targets=1,type=25}, [28853] = {id=28853,en="Maze Rune 054",ja="メイズルーン054",enl="Maze Rune 054",jal="メイズルーン054",category="Maze",flags=63168,stack=1,targets=1,type=25}, [28854] = {id=28854,en="Maze Rune 055",ja="メイズルーン055",enl="Maze Rune 055",jal="メイズルーン055",category="Maze",flags=63168,stack=1,targets=1,type=25}, [28855] = {id=28855,en="Maze Rune 056",ja="メイズルーン056",enl="Maze Rune 056",jal="メイズルーン056",category="Maze",flags=63168,stack=1,targets=1,type=25}, [28870] = {id=28870,en="Maze Rune 071",ja="メイズルーン071",enl="Maze Rune 071",jal="メイズルーン071",category="Maze",flags=63168,stack=1,targets=1,type=25}, [28871] = {id=28871,en="Maze Rune 072",ja="メイズルーン072",enl="Maze Rune 072",jal="メイズルーン072",category="Maze",flags=63168,stack=1,targets=1,type=25},
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So I was wondering...
Since in Japanese it's called, "Knowledge Rank" is there perhaps anything to be gained not just from raising crafting skills, but from performing every single Synthesis recipe within the game? Afterall, Synthesis recipes are knowledge, and if you know them all... Plus the game does track your recipes at least 10 at a time with the history tab, so the server knows what you've crafted before, right?
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Start a new mule and exclusively craft, see if you hit rank 2. I wouldn't bet on it.
There's ten thousand recipes, simple test
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Asura.Vyre said: » Plus the game does track your recipes at least 10 at a time with the history tab, so the server knows what you've crafted before, right? In so far as the Main Menu "Synthesis History" is concerned, that's stored locally in your user files as cmb0~9.dat. No doubt the server has logs which could be used to (retroactively) reference what's been synthesized (like fishing or on the Anniversary Moogle number of deaths, chat messages sent, etc.) but that seems a bit wild, idk, like must defeat one of every single trash mob being a criteria. Asura.Vyre said: » So I was wondering... Since in Japanese it's called, "Knowledge Rank" is there perhaps anything to be gained not just from raising crafting skills, but from performing every single Synthesis recipe within the game? Afterall, Synthesis recipes are knowledge, and if you know them all... Plus the game does track your recipes at least 10 at a time with the history tab, so the server knows what you've crafted before, right? in 14 they make you do that (unique number of crafts), i'd never rule it out as possible unless they ever release a list saying the actual criteria.
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IGDC said: » in 14 they make you do that (unique number of crafts), i'd never rule it out as possible unless they ever release a list saying the actual criteria. the synthesis list does not exist in 11, I am prepared to fully rule it out unless we have any reason to believe there's any tracking whatsoever examples: the Fisherman's Heart NPC reports out fishes caught the moogle during the April event reports out total kills and deaths and parties joined and so on but I've never seen any evidence that the game actually tracks the distinct items you've made, since it's not reported anywhere at that point we're just tilting at windmills. go talk to every unique NPC. etc. |
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