Chango R15 Upheaval Vs Savage

To go back to the original post, I strongly recommend making both. Chango will generally win. However, there is enough content/situations where Naegling shines to justify making it.

Nyame from R20 to R25 is not the kind of increase he's saying, it's nice but not 20~30% nice. WSD suffers the same issue that all other linear modifiers do, diminishing returns.

While we're talking about Chango, what's the up to date Upheaval set including r25 nyame/sakpata?

I've been doing Ody C on both SAM and WAR, and on 4th floor Marquess MS savage blade does like 90% of the HP and right into the mijin danger zone, where as SAM 1st fudo does about 45% and the next+SC takes care of the rest. I'm trying for similar solution on WAR with upheaval->upheaval

*blink blink*

Yo know what, screw it. Talking trash is fine on the forums but you don't go harass someone in game when they are hanging with their mates. Blocked both in game and here.

Wish there was some kind of disclaimer with this and TA that the dmg doesnt apply to ws

it's been tested, da damage and ta damage don't apply to ws.

If you mean sakpata legs would still use nyame since the gap is only 6% sc dmg for a loss of 11% wsd

Heads up, he's gonna make new characters and send tells every so often from his mules to continue the trash talking after you blacklist him. Ahrfry is an absolute moron.

Naegling
Blurred Shield +1
Knobkierrie
Agoge +3
Warrior's +2 Aug
Thrud
Moonshade AttTP
Sakpata Breastplate
Nyame WSD
Epaminondas
Niqmaddu
Cichol's (STR/WSD)
Sailfi R15
Nyame WSD
Nyame WSD

That's the set that gives highest avg for Savage Blade on WAR with effective 3000TP. The avg Im getting with ML30 and /55DRG is 60441 and Total damage with added white damage is 70.5k (less with Warcry, since you would WS earlier with Warcry). Spikes above 70k on Savage are possible, but are not the norm for sure.
Also like I said total cycle time is 552.

Ukonvasara total cycle time is 456 (so Naegling is 20% slower without Warcry). Ukonvasara despite poor WS damage (36.5k) has total damage in the cycle at 75.5k in that specified time frame.

Also adding more attack rounds to Naegling to increase white damage and total cycle damage is almost pointless, because effective TP on savage is already at 3000TP and white damage is poor. Now adding more attack round on Ukon will result in cycle time of 532 (still faster than Naegling) and total cycle damage of 90k, so Ukonvasara is much more flexible and faster in killing mobs in one cycle (white damage + one WS).

Chango is capable of really low cycle time in glass set. Im getting as low as 259. That would imply that Chango can indeed do 2x Upheaval faster than Naegling would do one Savage in above scenario. 2x Chango cycle is also much stronger than above Naegling cycle, because its 79k without even considering Light Skillchain. So both Ukon and Chango are faster and much more reliable to finish target with 75k HP.

Also one more time, Ukonvasara TP set is super safe and meva on it provides a lot of resists against debuffs that would slow you down during real gameplay.

lol, can't wait for your flurry of racial slurs from all your characters again. Very mature.

OT:
sets.me["Savage Blade"] = {
ammo = "Knobkierrie",
head = "Agoge Mask +3",
neck = "War. Beads +2",
ear1 = "Thrud Earring",
ear2 = "Moonshade Earring",
body = "Nyame Mail",
hands = "Sakpata's Gauntlets",
ring1 = "Niqmaddu Ring",
ring2 = "Epaminondas's Ring",
back = { name="Cichol's Mantle", augments={'STR+20','Accuracy+20 Attack+20','STR+10','Weapon skill damage +10%','Phys. dmg. taken-10%',}},
waist = "Sailfi Belt +1",
legs = "Sakpata's Cuisses",
feet = "Nyame Sollerets",
}

I havent made any mistakes. 8%PDL beats 12%WSD because of diminishing returns. Sakpata Gauntlets on top of that is also small buff, but I didn't want to put more than one PDL piece and body makes the highest difference.


If you WS at 1200, your damage will drop to like 52k avg. Unless ofc you will WS with Warcry, but Warcry is up only for 20% of your time.

Which means what exactly? You do Savage at 1200 without Warcry and you do 65k avg with it? At the same time you make 10k white damage to take mob from 75k to 65k before you Savage and you do that white damage only TPing to 1200TP? I guess your Naegling is special and has hidden Empy AM3 working all the time :)

Going with 2 CORs is definitely convenient. 2WC and 4RD helps. It will probably let you have Warcry on like 7-8 groups. You still won't be even close to full time Warcry tho. 2x Cutting Card is also not that obvious way to get SV for last 11min of the run. You would need to get the sum of 9 from both of them, so at least 5 and 4, which is above the average. 2x WC can get you SPs back too, so overall it will probably happen on more than 50% of your runs, but not on all of them.

What is really happening is probably this:
1. You TP overflow more than you think or admit
2. You remember only Savage done with Warcry and try to tell us, that all Savage in the run are like that.
3. Your 12k segments is not based on what you using, but just fast gameplay, fast pulls and good connection.
4. If you only gets 12k with Naegling, then more than likely you don't know how to use other weapons efficiently, because many people got 12k using all kind of weapons.

don't take it so personal. Dude is just saying that your claim of 12k segments per Sheol:C run isn't limited to just a setup including a Naegling Fencer Build WAR...it has occurred with many different setups and weapons used by the DDs.

I know you know this, but just for the sake of clarity- that does not mean simply swapping main/sub and not adjusting your gearsets to maximize returns with your setup of choice. People are apparently very used to altering a set for Dual Wield needs, but for some reason 2handers are more stuck in x-hit build concepts from a decade ago than willing to adjust and appreciate the TP phase's contribution to the parse.

That isn't why you get your best results with a Naegling build, but it is often why many new WARs who originally only had such a build get that Chango finally and *** about it. Again- I'm not implying that is the case with you, simply including this information for others.

Not sure what history had to with math here?

WSC on Nyame Body and Sakpata body are even (same sum of STR+MND), but Sakpata slightly wins, because it has more STR. Sorry Nyame has 9MND more, while having 7STR less. That still favors Sakpata slightly assuming fSTR isnt capped.
Without body slot you have 75%WSD and 0%PDL.
Meaning 12%WSD is only 6.85% increase (1.87/1.75).
8%PDL is 8%increase, since there is no diminishing returns at all.

Also WSD only works for 1st hit, while PDL for whole WS, which is not that significant on Savage Blade which has majority of damage on first hit, but still on job like WAR (high DA rate) you will get some additional damage from 2nd hit and MA proc.

So Sakpata is just better (assuming you cap attack).



I have never said that. I was trying to justify your 65k avg Savage Blades and dealing 10k damage (15% of mob's HP) with white damage before WSing. Both are impossible if you WS at 1200TP (especially dealing 10k damage with 6 swings with TP set not even focused on crit rate/damage/DAdamage).


Not even gonna take that bait :)

Segments per run is a matter of 6 players performance, connection, luck (WD,rolls,floor composition), overall strategy and many different things. Saying that it can be a deciding factor in comparison of weapons on WAR is just as accurate as me saying that shoes that Cooper Kupp uses to play are the best shoes to play American Football, because Rams won the Super Bowl.

Its not about you saying that Naegling can be good enough to achieve 12k segments. Problem is that you are saying that you do 10k white damage with 6 Naegling swings and follow that with 65k Savage at 1200TP to finish off the mob and then you say that if other players can't do that, then it's a matter of playstyle XD

Prove us wrong. Make a video or series of screenshots where you do it several times in a row.