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Prime WS Information, Testing, Discussion
 Valefor.Aspens
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 44
By Valefor.Aspens 2023-12-23 00:38:09
99 rdm sub 59 sam (mlvl 50)
204 str
184 dex
204 mnd
no pdl / ws dmg gear on
Only scales with mnd / dex
Exact 3k imperator dmg values:
3k
22195
22208
22226
22243
22275
22288
22318
22322
22323
22339
22400
22440
22446
22464
22522
22524
22526
22533
22550
22592
22597
22624
22645
22649
22652
22705
22713
22721
22861
22888
22908
22987
23031
23046
23059
23086
23107
23122
23127
23140
23178
23192
23207
23240
23251
23252
3k fotia
22317
22331
22363
22389
22401
22407
22472
22477
22493
22515
22525
22557
22577
22593
22685
22690
22739
22741
22764
22792
22828
22850
22875
22902
22910
22935
22937
22948
22949
22950
23022
23031
23104
23155
23205
23214
23234
23241
23246
23251
23259
23305
23329
23335
23382
23395
Edited forgot to reorder first list
so far I'm getting these for sword/imperator: 6.45 x 18.2
looks closer in line w/dagger
Valefor.Aspens
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 44
By Valefor.Aspens 2023-12-23 00:57:18
Reposting Disaster values from my testing with additional samples on 1k fotia and 3k tp. Hopefully this will suffice. WSC samples still a work in progress, will update when this is done.
1ktp -
8292, 8323, 8337, 8373, 8374, 8387, 8395, 8405, 8450, 8462, 8487, 8518, 8519, 8522, 8535, 8539, 8546, 8558, 8569, 8573, 8576, 8610, 8621, 8638, 8666, 8667, 8673, 8677, 8693, 8694
fotias -
8806, 8808, 8811, 8837, 8874, 8874, 8888, 8903, 8915, 8924, 8944, 8953, 8957, 8972, 8985, 8985, 8997, 9004, 9009, 9017, 9021, 9024, 9025, 9025, 9032, 9038, 9041, 9041, 9046, 9051, 9067, 9070, 9109, 9118, 9119, 9127, 9128, 9136, 9138, 9143, 9157, 9168, 9176, 9190, 9193, 9198, 9203, 9216, 9224, 9233
1kSTR+49 - 8705, 8763, 8865, 8963, 8973, 9002, 9010, 9011, 9062, 9066
1kDEX+49 - 8355, 8423, 8527, 8585
1kVIT+49 - 8712, 8797, 8803, 8811, 8831, 8882, 8959, 8983, 9006, 9015, 9050
1kAGL+49 - 8302, 8382, 8503, 8662
1kINT+49 - 8352, 8608, 8622, 8663
1kMND+49 - 8355, 8419, 8423, 8692
1kCHR+49 - 8338, 8384, 8484, 8636
2ktp -
17086, 17096, 17154, 17164, 17190, 17210, 17289, 17292, 17294, 17330, 17353, 17415, 17463, 17497, 17512, 17579, 17638, 17645, 17663, 17677, 17678, 17717, 17782, 17793, 17798, 17845, 17860, 17882, 17893, 17896
fotias -
17644, 17696, 17697, 17700, 17707, 17734, 17747, 17772, 17821, 17906, 17911, 17935, 17969, 17991, 17994, 18111, 18113, 18134, 18167, 18186, 18238, 18282, 18349, 18349, 18350, 18414, 18438, 18439, 18443, 18449
3ktp -
26452, 26484, 26540, 26548, 26559, 26580, 26585, 26591, 26610, 26620, 26627, 26655, 26706, 26719, 26773, 26835, 26837, 26839, 26850, 26854, 26889, 26975, 26984, 26991, 26994, 27047, 27050, 27061, 27080, 27097, 27169, 27241, 27242, 27293, 27335, 27346, 27380, 27400, 27415, 27435, 27454, 27461, 27462, 27471, 27521, 27560, 27561, 27586, 27593, 27608
fotias -
26864, 26886, 26958, 26991, 27005, 27132, 27172, 27181, 27345, 27354, 27364, 27417, 27474, 27501, 27564, 27574, 27577, 27646, 27807, 27813, 27832, 27861, 27871, 27960, 27978, 27984, 28085, 28167, 28174, 28186
ML50 HUME WAR/SAM, STR-161+30, VIT-153+30 (Laphria +30STR & +30VIT).
getting these now for gaxe/disaster with 3k having the most error:
3.23 6.13 12.8
By Shiva.Myamoto 2023-12-23 09:25:12
hmmm still not enough variance in 3k? it will likely be at least 4 or 5 days until I'll have the time to play and get some more samples. Hopefully the next addition of samples will be it lol. I'll get some more numbers and repost probably in a week or so after the holidays.
Is there any other factor that could be impacting it? or is it really strictly just a numbers game so to speak? I am ensuring to lose pdl aftermath each time, and each test is done strictly no gear (or just fotia obviously) and all tp values tested were done with exact values. Bare bones testing basically. Even my wsc samples I had friends assist by giving me the associated etude and boost spell to have zero gear and consistent values.
Assuming its just a "get more data" situation... but just want to clarify.
Valefor.Aspens
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 44
By Valefor.Aspens 2023-12-23 10:35:26
Pretty sure the PDL is applied on the hit that activates it, so no need to lose the aftermath between tests unless you're going from 3k back to 2k/1k testing.
I just mentioned the 3k because it's 1.045 and the others are about 1.048, it's probably good enough.
And yeah, it's really just a numbers game, you could get good spread in 2 hits or have it take 200. You can average but still you'd want a lot of hits and would probably get that type of spread on the amount you need for an average. Basically just looking for max/min for each case to be as close to 1.05
Fenrir.Ahlen
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 259
By Fenrir.Ahlen 2023-12-23 12:23:52
I posted disaster numbers a while ago if you look back tho look like my testing for that was short id prolly need larger sample size as well.
By leonbear 2023-12-31 04:55:00
guys any gear set for fimnbulvetr capped and uncapped?
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By Shiva.Myamoto 2023-12-31 07:39:00
wsd and tp bonus for the most part, slot in some pdl for attack cap. WSC mods seem to be str and vit. No different from any other front loaded weapon skills. Gear and how much pdl will simply depend on job, buffs, debuffs and what you are fighting.
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By Taint 2023-12-31 11:23:12
ItemSet 364962
ItemSet 393399
Two different rings depending on which job you want to focus on.
PDL swaps would be Sakpata but if you are capped PDL in these sets your hitting 99999 with warcry up. If warcry is down then you can benefit from more PDL as applicable.
TP scaling seems linear for prime weaponskills so spam away.
At 3000tp. 10ftp 60% STR 60% VIT fits my data. I have not tested 1k or 2k.
By K123 2023-12-31 12:56:13
Heathen earring+1 should be better for dark?
By Taint 2023-12-31 12:58:41
Heathen earring+1 should be better for dark?
9 PDL is better IF it’s usable.
Otherwise 10str 10vit is much better.
 Asura.Saevel
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9913
By Asura.Saevel 2023-12-31 13:09:05
Heathen earring+1 should be better for dark?
9 PDL is better IF it’s usable.
Otherwise 10str 10vit is much better.
I think the community needs to have a discussion on how much PDL is reasonable. Like we know that if it's a Bolstered Idris Frailty + LS Dia II/III, then it's "As much as possible", but for situations outside that, especially where GEO isn't as viable.
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Leviathan.Fiddle
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10
By Leviathan.Fiddle 2023-12-31 16:51:33
The way I've looked at it when are you not attack capped.
pretty much have have a combination of 2/3 between COR BRD GEO for everything.
Add Tachi: Ageha, Armor Break, Dia, Angon, Box Step, there really not anytime you are not attack capped.
WSD+ is easy with R25+ Nyame/JSE+3 so I put as much PDL in my WS sets. If don't feel like you will attack cap say a Atonment 3 V25 then have a toggle for more WSD focus.
By Shiva.Myamoto 2023-12-31 17:03:32
Aria song has also flexed some spots, being able to gain a big chunk of pdl without losing any wsd slots is a huge gain as traditionally you would drop wsd slots for pdl in the past. So with a soul voice Aria and PDL aftermath you may be further ahead with less pdl then you think you need.
Asura.Saevel
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9913
By Asura.Saevel 2023-12-31 19:12:26
The way I've looked at it when are you not attack capped.
Surprisingly often as the game loves to nerf Geomancer debuffs.
Most people who think they are attack capped, are not actually attack capped. SAM with Great Katana would require 4.075 times the monsters defense, without any PDL gear of buffs. The JSE neck raises that to 4.4825 times the monsters defense. This is without any other source of PDL. Aria would raise it to 5.33.
Here is the approximate defense monsters of this level will have.
Code
129: 1160
132: 1250
137: 1413
139: 1471
142: 1573
145: 1704
Bosses have a large bonus added making most of them clear 2~3K defense depending on content. PDL does not add attack, it only raises the cap, so it's entirely possible for someone to be capped in one set, then put in PDL and then be under cap. Idris Frailty + Dia II or III is a super easy way to jack our cRatio multiplier up, but once Frailty stops being an option then things get interesting.
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By Lili 2023-12-31 19:44:00
You misspelled "annoying".
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サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3185
By Asura.Geriond 2023-12-31 19:54:56
Speaking of attack, has anyone tested any of the prime WSs to see if any of them have cRatio bonuses?
Phoenix.Iocus
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1506
By Phoenix.Iocus 2024-01-01 08:17:49
You misspelled "annoying".
You misspelled BST and DNC
By Dodik 2024-01-01 11:48:48
PDL in gear or not mostly depends on content.
Taking Sam as an example and stage 4 prime, here are some real world examples where extra PDL in gear, feet empy+3 for 10% PDL replacing nyame, adds more than nyame. This is without Aria.
All of sheol excluding Sheol C floors 4+ unless SV songs.
All of Dyna C excluding wave2/3 bosses if no geo. Bosses included if geo.
All of Escha NMs with geo. Includes WoC and all tier 4 (lvl 150) Reisen NMs, blaze but no bolster for Escha.
Sortie ground floor bosses and mobs. Basement mobs.
All of Omen including Ou. (lvl 149)
Easier to find content where it is not beneficial.
Sortie basement bosses.
Gaol v25.
Anything else?
The "need 4-5x attack" is rather blown out of proportion. With non-geo sources of defense down you have - dia2 15%, 18% if light shot. 25% from ageha alone.
With just those three you get 43% def down or turning a 1700 def mob into a 969 def mob. For 969 need 4845 attack, which can be reached with crooked chaos and SV minuets. That's for a conservative def down estimate and no geo.
Some mobs have higher def even if they are lvl 149/150, like sortie basement bosses. For those WSD will do better and might have Aria for them in any case.
Dia3 + light shot and 5 box step takes that def down to 61% with ageha or angon.
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Asura.Saevel
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9913
By Asura.Saevel 2024-01-01 13:14:13
The "need 4-5x attack" is rather blown out of proportion. With non-geo sources of defense down you have - dia2 15%, 18% if light shot. 25% from ageha alone.
Your not doing Ageha or Dia on every mob you fight, you are engaging and racing to WS it. Bosses are where Ageha / Dia / etc come into play. I gave the defense values per monster level, you can find out the targets level with an addon. Bosses have a large bonus of a few hundred or more depending. For example, Tojil has 1800~1900 defense even though it's level 119 or 120. Gaol bosses have 3K+ at V25, except Bee which I think is around ~2500.
PDL does not give you attack, it only raises the ceiling that your pDiff is clamped. The point being that going full PDL is normally a bad idea outside of when we're dropping the bosses defense to low digits. Some PDL would be beneficial but how much is something we gotta kinda figure out as a guideline.
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By K123 2024-01-01 13:18:18
PDL does not give you attack, it only raises the ceiling that your pDiff is clamped.
Which then requires even more attack to reach. I was trying to explain this here a while ago. More PDL means even more attack needed to cap pDIF and benefit from the PDL.
By Dodik 2024-01-01 14:15:08
Bosses are the only place where ageha/dia matters. The rest is just chaos roll and minuets.
I am aware what pdl does. I was giving examples from experience where it added damage, and with what buffs (chaos/minuets, as above).
YMMV.
By K123 2024-01-01 14:17:56
Bosses are the only place where ageha/dia matters. The rest is just chaos roll and minuets.
I am aware what pdl does. I was giving examples from experience where it added damage, and with what buffs (chaos/minuets, as above).
YMMV. Wasn't specifically replying to you, but this came up a while ago and people were acting like you can use AM3 on level 4 weapon, SV Aria, and tons of PDL and still be capping attack on basement bosses. Being pDIF capped is unlikely when you raise the cap by 1.2+ even if you have DEF-50/60%.
By SimonSes 2024-01-01 15:24:26
You are talking like def down WS is always an option, when it isn't. There is plenty of NMs with low % resist rank (lower = stronger against that element) against wind, which will just resist the def down effect.
Cerberus.Arivana
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1
By Cerberus.Arivana 2024-01-01 16:34:45
So is Angon wind based or physical? And if it is physical can it miss?
By Nariont 2024-01-01 16:46:39
Unless its been determined otherwise and its like bst jug corrosive ooze, its wind based.
Looking through older posts it seems like angon is guaranteed to land, so guess it'd fall under ooze
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2024-01-01 17:43:54
In today's day and age base box step should be included as a standard form of def down as well for most things. The COR or BRD can almost always sub DNC and get you that extra 13% def down. Honestly I prefer /DNC on COR anyway for the extra SC bonus.
By Atrox78 2024-01-01 18:41:45
So is Angon wind based or physical? And if it is physical can it miss? Angon has no element tied to it and can't miss.
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Asura.Saevel
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9913
By Asura.Saevel 2024-01-01 20:10:49
So is Angon wind based or physical? And if it is physical can it miss?
Angon is Defense Down, as in the debuff called "Defense Down", the same as Acid Bolts, Armor Break and a bunch of others. That debuff itself is wind element, but there is no MACC check on Angon, it's just applied for 90s.
Valefor.Prothescar said: »In today's day and age base box step should be included as a standard form of def down as well for most things. The COR or BRD can almost always sub DNC and get you that extra 13% def down. Honestly I prefer /DNC on COR anyway for the extra SC bonus.
On bosses, definitely. On regular mobs, you don't have time to apply them. Then again which bosses we talking about because the only ones I can think of that have enough HP to make non-presto Box Step worth using is Gaol and Dyna D. Gaol you don't have SJ's, and Dyna D your Idris Frailty + LS Dia II should be enough. For seg farm, your COR and BRD aren't applying Box Step on floors 3/4, they are racing to Savage. Sortie, your not messing with the regular mobs in the basement, the bosses have a lot of defense though so I can see Box Step there, except for H boss, Bolster Frailty + LS Dia II obliterates his defense and you need him dead in under 60s anyway.
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2024-01-01 20:34:43
On regular mobs it doesn't matter because they die in 1 or 2 WS anyway, so discussing minmax for them is irrelevant to begin with.
Let's keep this thread solely for sharing information on the new prime weaponskills; WS numbers/sceenshots, hypothetical discussions on WS properties, such as stat mods and fTP, gear sets and buffs/debuffs used etc.
No discussions/comments on how much people hate sortie, why weapon requirements suck etc.
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