Prime WS Information, Testing, Discussion

What was wrong with /autotarget and facing the next mob lol

5 people /autotarget the same mob, someone else gets to it before you and kills it before you.

Theoretically everyone could be facing a different mob, but GL coordinating that in segments, especially if it's with a group of mostly strangers.

Because everyone else is doing the same thing, engaging the same mob and causing each other to lose TP from it dieing and them not having a new target ready yet. When this happens, and it happens a lot in seg farm, Naegling users can recover almost instantly thanks so the sub 1s timer, while 2H users require longer.

The best solution I've found is tab targeting to ensure I'm not starting on the same mob as everyone else and always have another monster lined up. Again it's a skill we all used to have to do back in bird merits.

But you don't actually care about any of that, so I'll humor you

Your Mom!

Well it lets you remove DA merits for Warcry recast merits but that would screw over every other weapon used. Potentially could help with WS DA % depending on swaps.

You should already have 5/5 Warcry merits, it's really Berserk recast vs DA, and DA is generally more useful due to gear increasing berserks duration to 4:03 with 57s of downtime and WAR supporting many different weapon / defense configurations. Having said that, some folks go with berserk recast just Sakpata and JSE are so stacked with DA already.

Ultimately it's the same situation that the Mythic GAXE faces, Mythic AM3 is much stronger the DA+7~10 yet it does very little for TP gain speed. WAR naked has 33% DA, then all it's best gear comes piled with DA until you can easily get 80+ without even trying.

Except...the difference between 80% and 90% is 10%. 10% of the time, you will get an extra attack you didn't have before. Meaning you get full, 100% value from the DA on the prime.

The reason Mythic AM3 isn't good is because it won't proc if you get a DA. Prime DA will proc at normal rate no matter what your DA rate is, unless it's 91+%. In which case you can drop DA from other slots if there's a better option. Hence my question

I think the answer is no because even if Prime GAxe was king for some things, you would still need to use sword, polearm, and club for others.

You can still use a weapon with DA and weapons without DA you just:

Have different engaged sets for different weapons (swap DA/STP capes for EZ mode)
OR
Have 100% DA with Prime Gaxe and 90% DA for other weapons

I'm certain that loads of people already have different engaged sets for different weapons, it would not be even remotely difficult to have a slightly modified engaged set for a different weapon. This could allow you to squeeze in extra STP, DT, meva, DA damage, or whatever other stat your heart desired while still maintaining 100% DA (or whatever level you prefer).

This would only not be possible if you were already at 100% DA in all sets (hybrid, fodder, DT, turtle, low acc, high acc, etc.) and also had no better gear you'd want to swap into if you could.

Hence, my question.

I'm sure it's possible that WAR's optimal gear already includes 100% DA while also maintaining all their best DT, meva, STP, and whatever other stats they could want. I don't think that's the case, especially not for full 50% DT sets and super-especially not for Gaxe, and ultra-especially not if you have an STP cape instead of a DA cape, but IDK, I could be wrong.

I'd also argue that 5% DA < 50s of Berserk in a lot of scenarios and 5% DA < 50s on Warcry cooldown most of the time, so if you drop those 5% DA in merits, hitting 90+% DA in your TP gear, especially while maintaining DT, is quite problematic. Meaning the Prime DA is going to be taken advantage of.

It can, of course, be proc'd during WS, though I'm not sure how impactful that is for Gaxe WS.

Still big mad over how bad you got bodied in the FF16 thread, eh?
Well *** you too then. Dont bother answering, I wont see it.

He was talking about "skills learned at Colibri parties", no one was holding 10 colibri at thickets.

5/5 sakpata with the high end TP pieces like r15 sailifi/coiste/jse ear+1/schere and jse neck+2 puts you at 89% before merits even come in, so there's room to shuffle stuff around with 10 extra DA. As far as WS sets go, gaxe doesnt have many WS where DA isnt just a small bonus, due to them all largely being front loaded ftp WS'

ItemSet 394681

28% Traits/Gifts
Hands 6% (34)
Body 8% (42)
Head 5% (47)
Legs 7% (54)
Feet 4% (58)
Neck 7% (65)
Ear1 6% (71)
Ear2 8% (79)
Waist 5% (84)
Ammo 3% (87)

With DA merits, you'd get 8% DA from Prime GA. If you don't have DA merits, you'd get 10% DA from Prime GA.

You forgot about back.

ItemSet 363018
This set with 10%DA back is exactly 101%DA without DA merits.

For Prime Gaxe you can simply change 10%DA on back to +10sTP or change Sakpata's Body to Boii +3.

ItemSet 378034
It's a little more complicated if you want to use this set for Ukonvasara, because that's 95%DA without merits and you need them to cap.

Let's not knock the Laphria here guys. I picked that as my first stage 4 to build and I've been playing around with it in seg farms now for a few months. I'm thoroughly impressed with it, so I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with Saevel's opinion here on it. The pros and cons of one weapon do not affect the pros and cons of another. He picked Helheim over Laphria because it has more utility across 4 jobs, and it's probably the best great sword in the game. That's a good choice, but neither one is inherently better. I think it mainly boils down to a difference in playstyle. Since Laphria has so much DA on it I've adjusted my tp set as follows.

ItemSet 394686

This is with 5 DA merits and 5 berserk recast merits. So my DA rate is 102 (and as we've recently learned, you actually need 102 or 103 DA to hit the true cap much like SIRD needs 102 to cap, for the exact same reason... fractional math rounding down). The standard chango TP set uses Pummeler's calligae +3 in the feet slot for its 9 DA and 4 sTP, so I've swapped that out in my set for Boii +3 instead. The empyrean feet are better defensively, and this build has some serious white damage going on. Between Laphria's double damage aftermath (can't wait for triple at stage 5), the crit rate from my +2 JSE earring, lehko's ring, and sakpata's pieces, the empyrean feet crit damage, the 15% DA damage on sakpata's helm...it makes for a brutally efficient weapon. Melee crits can go over 10k damage, so you swing a few times, get tp and disaster will kill whatever you're fighting. Bonus points for the retaliation proc rate on the empyrean feet. Just like monk's empyrean body for impetus, blm's feet with mana wall, etc, you only get the retaliation bonus if you have the feet equipped. And it's a VERY noticeable bonus. It makes pulling and soloing 3-5 mobs really fun.

Btw, warrior is lucky they have multiple options in the T2 merit category worth considering. Many jobs only have 2 options to consider, and sometimes the second isn't that good. Berserk recast is a good choice. You get 63 seconds of berserk duration with artifact feet, relic body, and JSE cape so reducing the cooldown by 50 more seconds means you can maintain berserk uptime fulltime (technically 7 second downtime but big woop). That's how I've been using the G axe. It's got a lot going for it. It was tailor made for warrior, and it's quite the weapon. And we already know disaster's stat mods are. It kicks quite a lot of tail at 2k tp+.

I would swap belt to Ioskeha and legs to Boii+3. That will improve melee damage by a lot (mostly 10%PDL, but also more att/acc) and give you more chances for set proc. It will also give you +30meva. It's imo definitely better than 2%TA on WAR.

I forgot that belt existed. Upvote for you. That's a really good suggestion. The empyrean legs are more defensive than relic too. I'll grab one off AH later today and add it to my set. Updated the template on AH too. I appreciate the suggestion.

The chances of having earring+2 for a job you care about with even the minimum stats is extremely improbable though

This is additional benefit of that belt+legs switch too. It's 1% more DA, so you should be fine with +1 earring too. Unless it's really 103% that is required.

Naegling beats out Laphria. Naegling might just beat every other prime as well. There’s not many situations where laphria is better, even chango is a better choice because of the Skillchain properties of upheaval. Since everyone is doing savage blade, you can at least make a light Skillchain with chango. Laphria will only win if there’s another DD in the party that is opening with distortion. Otherwise savage blade, or upheaval with low buffs.

Oh man.. the spreadsheet people gon' be comin after you now! Watch out!

Yeah IDK, this is what happens when you have a myopic view of the world and only ever think about a single scenario.

If you're doing melee Sortie, you can't Savage Blade because there are 2-3 other people who also need to do Savage Blade, so your Naegling idea is right out the window.

Retaliation is MUCH more effective with a 2h weapon than with a 1h weapon, especially with multiple enemies attacking you.

WAR can't get remotely close to attack delay cap with 1h weapon, but with 2h they can Hasso and their delay will be much lower.

On Gaol bosses, you want to reduce the WS wall so you can't use SB (see above point about Sortie).

There is no single weapon you can use for every scenario, for any job. People who insist that any weapon is king ***all the time are morons. You should have multiple weapons for any job, but ESPECIALLY so for WAR. Prime GS and GA definitely have their places in the world, and anyone who tries to insist otherwise is either disingenuous or an idiot, or both.

The best weapon in Gaol for warrior is Ikenga's axe, specifically so you don't weaponskill wall the bard and corsair's savage blades. Calamity stat mod wise is just slightly worse than savage blade, but with ikenga's 500 tp bonus and fencer it's definitely what you wanna be doing. That's what I used when I cleared kalunga. I wouldn't wanna use a great axe without hasso.

Yeah, that's what I understood from the dude's post. You just neglected the part that didn't fit the narrative. He even mentioned Chango for the scenarios you brought up. So, you calling the guy an idiot here is somewhat ironic.

Also, people beat Gaol before Laprhia came out. Wars were using Nageling's cousin, the supreme Ikenga's Axe. So what's really your point here?

I think the main points made by those of us who groan at every mention of Naegling are:

1. Its a thread for discussion and testing of Prime Weapons/WSs. One could argue there's a place for discussion of existing options against the new ones, but the dropping of blanket "its better" statements really reek of Poke The Bear mentality rather than discussion.

2. The Discussion is never as clean as just WS vs WS, in particular with how amazing TP gain for all jobs is now versus 10 years ago. There comes a point where what happens between all those WSs starts to matter, in particular where 4+ people WS'ing a setup is now common and skillchains are impossible.

3. Winning or not is honestly rarely the discussion point these days. You can beat almost all existing content with 2-4 weapon choices for every jobs requisite as a DD in those moments. Its a lot more about how you can assist the overall party's damage than your own, how your role fits in to the overall picture of that damage profile, and what tools your setup allows compared to other choices.

So it boils down to we're just sick of people posting "its better" and thinking that's the end of a discussion like they won a point on the scoreboard.

I have a laphria, I’m not saying to savage blade everything. I’ve ran the numbers multiple times against myself. A stage 5 MIGHT be better but I’m not wasting 5 million ghally on a chance. I just wanted to let other warriors know that the great axe isn’t a good pick. I hardly ever use it, plus if you are thinking of using it in sortie, the distortion/darkness doesn’t do well with A/E and C/G. And v25 doesn’t require you to have the great axe.

That's a "we own this website" type of behavior though. War is my favorite job and I found the comparison very informative. Especially from a guy that owns it. He just gave a very practical take on Laphria vs Naegling. He even went on to mention how he felt about Chango vs Laphria where Naegling wouldn't apply.

I tend to take these comments a lot more serious than posts with Gaussian plots. I have never said anything negative about more detailed posts though. I just ignore them.

"It doesn't beat Naegling if there isn't a WS wall" or "It greatly beats Naegling when you can benefit from SC" is really all I need to know about a weapon.

Thanks for the support godfry :) I’ve also done segs against celebrindal’s Ukonvasara, and he is amazing with it. I would think if you are considering a good great axe, I’d go with the empyrean, I don’t have one to compare it against the prime or chango, but celebrindal’s damage was good enough for me to say Ukon IS the best great axe. if you have a bard singing aria and empyrean AM3 I bet the numbers would be very high.

hehe we always good for a drink after the forum bitching^^ <3

I will say apples to apples, ukon vs stage 5 gaxe in a seg run wasn't even a competition^^ I got dragged for a variety of reasons lol- both job skill/familiarity along with the weapon itself.

In truth, the only really fun thing I find with WAR vs other DDs in terms of play (and this is just me, and probably explains a lot of gaps in my WAR) is its more fun to build a variety of TP sets for various weapons and be extremely competitive with so many different things. Embrace the fun and have weird builds- hell, I even enjoy using the Mythic when just with trusts (read: no real buffs from real people) and ML'ing just for the compensating STP I can squeeze in a set to make up for no real rolls.