Prime WS Information, Testing, Discussion

Interesting perspective, might float this to our group.

Drgs saying they get TP "so fast" just means they have never played Sam.

2 hit WSs. 2 HITS. 2!

We felt the breeze on that one SAM. It wiffed so hard. Just think about how much dps you just lost because you missed making that SC. They made Mumei that much better than Fudo but all that you really wanted was a 2nd hit.

That's why they put DA on GKT. :p

I wish Jinpu was a one hit too. Last thing Sam needs is a two-hit WS. Or DA.

They just haven't played with your prime DRG yet. (Spoiler, it's filthy mcnasty)

100% possible to do an aminon melee run without prime dagger. Rudra+Shark Bite on a Twashtar will still get you between 7 and 9 NMs depending on your group's contribution and skill. The "gandring is a necessity" thing is hyperbole. It makes it easier especially if you have slackers to make up for but you do not need Ruthless Stroke to win.

What must be remembered here, and this isn't meant to be derisive: 9NM aminon melee runs are something that only the elite few will achieve. Mpu Gandring isn't the skeleton key that allows your group to be able to do it, you need your entire group to know their roles and how to bleed the stone for as much performance from their jobs as they can get, with some amount of leeway. You can afford to use a "suboptimal" weapon on DNC and lose a bit of your top end as long as your team is doing their job. If everyone in your party is pushing sub-2million damage and putting the entire weight on the DNC to make up the difference it doesnt really matter what dagger youre using. 7 or 8NM runs are more realistic for the majority of people. Less stress and less requirement for people to push themselves for an event that wants you to run it as often as Sortie.


Can confirm, the thing is incredible. It really eclipses any other polearm by a huge degree.

Our dnc does not have prime, so yes it is possible. Just slower.

In all seriousness the polearm is very tempting esp for people who really enjoy DRG. What are polearm owners doing for A/E? Just shining one/impulse I imagine.

We're currently hammering out 8 bosses with about 8 to 10 mins left after the F boss for WKR and the like getting all the nms along the way most runs, so I am not overly concerned about my groups quality. But aminon alone would be a net loss even if we snag a +1 case, so we didn't wanna look at aminon until we were pretty sure it would be aminon and 2+ basement bosses. goal is to work towards 9 bosses but even aminon + 5~6 would be a nice change to the same jobs each day running the same route.

What's the average kill time for a melee-style Aminon hard kill?

There's a soft time limit of "before soul voice songs wear off". You can still recover if they drop but that'll drag the fight into 20+ minute territory and it becomes more dangerous. So typically I'd say between 9 and 12 minutes should be the average.

If you're already able to do 8nm runs with 10mins left over with an Aminon capable setup then you're ready to try aminon. You may lose F at the end at the start but Aminon+7NM is still better than a normal 8NM run.

That or Camlann's also works.

waiting like a week to finish up some primes than Yeah I wanna give it a try. I expect we'll prolly burn a run or 2 getting used to the new jobs/nm but I have faith in my group

Not sure what average is but logs shows 7.5min kill last night, no WC reset.

Ehh Jinpu is a hybrid and those work very differently, lets say just multiple hits is really really good on them. The two hit physical attack has an fTP of 1.0, no scaling. The magic component use's the total physical damage as it's base magic damage, then multiplied by fTP, adds magic damage, multiplies by MAB, Weather, etc. Adds both together and multiplies the total by WSD. A four hit jinpu will deal almost twice as much damage as a two hit jinpu because it doubles the base magic damage.

Some Aminon runs will not be as fast, depending on total dmg output and how brave the group is due to TP feed. 20-30min with SV songs wearing off is about right.

One hit, Two Hit, GKT weapon skills, either way, you're missing damage on a two handed weapon WS if you're relying on it damage, or you break a SC (which will also miss damage) if you're using a mage strat, because you're missing out on an extended burst window.

You're all missing the REAL problem. Two handed weapons are at an innate disadvantage against one handed weapons (like dagger, sword, etc.). How many times have you missed a whole savage blade? Expiacion? Ruinator? Ruinator is ***damage, but it's a good for a mage strat against B/F bosses (skillchain extending in a mage sortie run).

One handed weapons have a 99% accuracy cap, two handed weapons have a 95% accuracy cap. How many times have you missed a Fudo? Or a Mumei? A lot more times. Prime Great sword has the same issue, one hit weaponskill on a two handed weapon. Sure, on WAR you get lots of double attack, but DA procs don't do a lot of damage on a prime WS, because only the first hit does the full damage.

SE in their infinite wisdom split the accuracy caps between one handed, and two handed weapons. The first hit of Savage blade has a 99% chance to hit (if you're accuracy capped), and so does the second (and any other multi attack hits). Any great katana WSs have a 95% chance of hitting if you're hit capped, and that seems to happen a LOT more than that 4% difference between 95% and 99%. If you're NOT hit capped, forget it. Two handed weapons DO get a little extra attack and accuracy from STR/DEX respectively, but it doesn't make a huge difference and doesn't solve the problem. When I do sortie on RUN, I run the helheim prime greatsword on all 8 bosses, so I can swap between dimiation for light extending, and Fimbulvetr for gravitation to darkness extending (again, mage strat, haven't been in a melee run before). As RUN, I have to be able to hit that one hit Fimbulvetr to extend SCs, so I have a WS accuracy set that discards nyame/WSD, and goes whole hog on accuracy (Empyrean +3 armor for example). RUN lacks accuracy that, say, WAR would get (aggressor, etc.). And the WS accuracy would still fall far behind, say a 4 hit WS one handed weaponskill such as ruinator (99% chance when capped, repeated 4 times) vs 1 hit with a potential accuracy cap of 95%.

SE, please fix the accuracy cap for two handed weapons, make it 99%. I'm getting tired of whiffing two handed WSs when accuracy capped (dynamis D for example, easy to cap accuracy, still gonna whiff more than you'd like with a two handed weapon).

DPS meta is filled with 2h weapons leading the way, “increase their gap plz”.

I'd take a 95% hit cap on my WS if it meant I could play other jobs in content.

Yeah ... if 1/20 WS's is causing issues with people fighting, there problem isn't in the weapon skill...

I'd instead like some grip diversity, but that's been a 2 hander complaint I've had for ages, sucks being stuck to utu, and then maybe rigorous R15/Ambu strap for DD jobs

If you have a drk with prime scythe, Origin > Diarmud > Camlans > Origin > Camlans wrecks A and E ( Grav > Frag > Light > Light). There is a 4 step light with upheaval as well ( upheaval > Diarmud > Camlans > Upheaval i think). Sam and drg can do endless skillchain with mumei > Diarmud but wyvern might do water breat which equals death lol I just caldbolg drk if a sam is the other DD.

I thought water breath didn’t trigger A/E’s rage mode?

Water breath doesn’t trigger rage on A or E.

Thought so too but died to it one time and only water d.g did was wyvern breath in the chat log. Maybe there was something missed somthing. Hopefully, that e dless was silly

The really weird thing is that Hydro breath doesn't get absorbed.Wyvern breath killshot. lol.

Considering that the breath isn't even being absorbed(Again, weird as hell.) I think there's pretty much zero chance that could be causing rage/wtf dmg WS. Looking at my logs, I have about 15 A kills on DRG in my logs, and 174 Hydro breaths. Never got blown up.

I only went DRG to sortie back when I was soloing runs, and that was prebasement. So I don't have any DRG vs Dhartok data. But I'd be very surprised if it was any different.