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Newer players need to step up their game
 Bismarck.Drakelth
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 739
By Bismarck.Drakelth 2024-09-21 22:06:32
Quetzalcoatl.Taeketsu said: »At the same time... the amount of people playing 6 man content with their alts and multi-boxing isn't growing the game either. There ARE people out there who would participate and eventually get better, they just aren't to your expectations.
I have had people make similar complaints about me, If its sortie I am gonna expect some one geared to the same level as my group as its the newest content same goes for v20/25 ody fights, bellow that I expect people to be geared for the content they're going too. A lot of players want to skip the line in progression and if you can do it. It's also no ones job but your own to make your progression happen. so if you wanna do omen but ody in sparks gear I am gonna tell you to go farm older content.
Free piece of advice for everyone. You know who gets ***? People who organize and create groups for what they want. If you're unwilling to organize you get the left overs of those who do.
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By Felgarr 2024-09-21 23:18:16
Bismarck.Drakelth said: »Quetzalcoatl.Taeketsu said: »At the same time... the amount of people playing 6 man content with their alts and multi-boxing isn't growing the game either. There ARE people out there who would participate and eventually get better, they just aren't to your expectations.
I have had people make similar complaints about me, If its sortie I am gonna expect some one geared to the same level as my group as its the newest content same goes for v20/25 ody fights, bellow that I expect people to be geared for the content they're going too. A lot of players want to skip the line in progression and if you can do it. It's also no ones job but your own to make your progression happen. so if you wanna do omen but ody in sparks gear I am gonna tell you to go farm older content.
Free piece of advice for everyone. You know who gets ***? People who organize and create groups for what they want. If you're unwilling to organize you get the left overs of those who do.
This is true, but to a put a positive spin on this. I will help people who initiative and put forth some effort into getting the gear they need. I'm happy to even give people optimal sets and tell them what they should farm first so that they can get the largest benefits sooner, depending on what they're schedule allows.
So, yeah, if they are coachable, and have a good attitude about things, I'll help them.
However, if they act like all of their key presses are "kisses from God" or they have problems that are due to a fundamental lack of understanding...and they refuse to improve or even own up to it, they will unfortunately, get cut from the team. You just can't fix a bad attitude. :(
Regarding 6-man solo players, I will always give preferencial treatment to a person over an alt. Always. (unless they have a bad attitude or just can't fulfill the role).
Reminds me of a joke: Pre-AMAN trove, I was farming Omen bodies daily and I would bring alts for jobs that other people didn't want to come as. (That's just how Omen was when it first came out, you don't get rewarded for coming as the utility jobs or the objective-completing jobs, but someone has to do it). So, I'd make a joke that: "My alts are never late and they never complain about coming a particular job...so what's the problem?" :P
 Bahamut.Senaki
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 122
By Bahamut.Senaki 2024-09-22 01:52:15
SE needs to step up and start helping their communities out by listening to them and making necessary QOL changes instead of expecting things to just smoove over. Im pretty sure if they did any census they would see the sortie event was a failure and they do need to adjust the content and current goalposts. But they don't care and want the game to fail.
I suspect it is not malice, but rather incompetence. As you said, they do not really listen to the community. Well, the English community anyway. They still respond to Japanese posts on the official forums sometimes.
By Zehira 2024-09-22 02:04:08
But they don't care and want the game to fail.
That's because FFXI is a sandbox MMO, which means SE is always required to police the community. So SE has decided they want to change your favorite game to be more like FFXIV's themepark with a lot of instances like Sortie and others, as well as add the trust system, you can solo pretty much everything now. Huge mistake. Well, not your fault because people were paranoid that FFXI would die when FFXIV came out, I guess?
To me, the level 75 cap has always been a healthy environment in the community. No matter how grinding it is to get any job to level 75, people will always have to interact with other people so they won't feel lonely in the MMO world. As long as SE is actually policing (highly unlikely).
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By Dodik 2024-09-22 04:03:49
Aaaaaand one more for the block list.
Those era trolls man, they be everywhere.
By Seun 2024-09-22 04:31:36
People forget that this game started with a much higher exp curve and NO level sync, tomes, ect.
QoL is the new "grind" ><;
 Ragnarok.Creaucent
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 135
By Ragnarok.Creaucent 2024-09-22 05:51:09
But they don't care and want the game to fail.
That's because FFXI is a sandbox MMO, which means SE is always required to police the community. So SE has decided they want to change your favorite game to be more like FFXIV's themepark with a lot of instances like Sortie and others, as well as add the trust system, you can solo pretty much everything now. Huge mistake. Well, not your fault because people were paranoid that FFXI would die when FFXIV came out, I guess?
To me, the level 75 cap has always been a healthy environment in the community. No matter how grinding it is to get any job to level 75, people will always have to interact with other people so they won't feel lonely in the MMO world. As long as SE is actually policing (highly unlikely).
XI has always had instance content.. so thats nothing new.
75 cap had
Dynamis
Limbus
Nyzul
Salvage
Einherjar
BCNMs
As much as you private server players like to think that we can solo everything with trusts, we can't. I would love to see one of these people try and solo segments and do the NM grind.
By Seun 2024-09-22 06:22:12
Ragnarok.Creaucent said: »XI has always had instance content.. so thats nothing new.
Sky and Sea had forced pops. Land kings were also instanced, on the heels of level sync IIRC.
This guy sounds like he never experienced the 75 era or current retail. Nothing wrong with that until you decide to make comments that highlight that ignorance.
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 Phoenix.Iocus
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1626
By Phoenix.Iocus 2024-09-22 07:53:07
Yeah where can I buy these youngin's some bootstraps? Not bootstaps +1, though, that's only for people who I think deserve it
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 181
By Phoenix.Gavroches 2024-09-22 09:11:39
I was a new player 3 years ago, it’s hard. So much content to do/unlock just to be able to be involved. I had the chance to land in a LS that welcome new players, still does to this day omen/dyna/vagary on a stable posted schedule and that was a blessing for me.
- Veterans need to step up as well.
- Multiboxer help in a disproportionate amount ppl, and as it was pointed out by felgar, alts are never late, they don’t complain.
- SE need to make sortie 18 ppl, there’s no way a veteran group bring a not top notch player, they rather skip the night and go zzz. It will barely move the muffin needle, maybe 10k.
- and yes newbie could step up but how much can they really do from scratch within the first year?? Mission unlock, maybe 1 mythic ?!? + 2 jobs… their plates is full
By Nariont 2024-09-22 09:18:14
To me, the level 75 cap has always been a healthy environment in the community. No matter how grinding it is to get any job to level 75, people will always have to interact with other people so they won't feel lonely in the MMO world. As long as SE is actually policing (highly unlikely).
75 era was coming apart for similar reasons to now; wasnt anything new to do, people starting up had loads of stuff to do, but noone to do it with as even with sync finding people was a struggle, much less doing endgame as shells were drying up and/or you were in a waiting line cause muh attendance points
Main thing ill give 75 era and what SE royally is the world was built around it, instead at 99 cap and above being their own little sections/alt dimension of a handful of zones
 Bismarck.Nickeny
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2252
By Bismarck.Nickeny 2024-09-22 15:50:48
Oh noe - please don't turn this into an era thread for the love of everything that is holy.
I miss jumping on a huge discord to talk about final fantasy xi - my favorite MMO - Some loser decided ffxi needed to be a 6-man *** instead of a full-blown 18-man orgy. I hope that guy trips while trying to take a bite of his favorite sandwich. if he doesn't trip I hope for the very least he bites his inner lip while he is chewing.
Bismarck.Celerin
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 67
By Bismarck.Celerin 2024-09-22 17:43:22
I doubt they will do 18 man content anymore mainly because of how many "real" people are on servers. When was the last time you logged onto your server and not figure at least a third if not more are bots or mules? Currently, there are a lot of times our group is bringing 1-2 mules for anything we do, so how are they to expect to have 18 RL people to do things?
I don't think if they introduced something, that it's gonna be like XIV patch day and "everyone is here to do the content now so we can go away once we are done and wait for the next patch."
SE also doesn't have the best track record on handling alliance content rewards. Delve was probably the best considering you can get currency to help you progress, where omen was ***with random midboss, random drops for midboss, random drops from main boss, and originally, had a 20 hour lockout and all of it up to what you lot and pray you don't get ninja lotted.
I feel like new content would be nice, but I don't think alliance content is what is going to happen.
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 181
By Phoenix.Gavroches 2024-09-22 18:14:48
Well, can’t speak for most, but TK on phoenix, has full alliance for dyna, sometimes with couple alts, 12-18 vagary events, definitely 18 for aeonics, they cap it now but there was a time they run 3 full alliance thru the content…. I’m not an officer of the LS, I’m not here for promotion, but maybe it’s happening more often than you know. Also, for sortie, they will have nothing to do, can still clear it with 6, but opening it up will help newcomers and alliance group. It’s sucks when there’s 7 or 10 or 15 ppl and folks got to choose and exclude folks.
Carbuncle.Nynja
サーバ: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4102
By Carbuncle.Nynja 2024-09-22 18:35:12
Guys, remember that “We cant have alliance content cuz RMT”
By Seun 2024-09-22 18:40:45
Some loser decided ffxi needed to be a 6-man *** instead of a full-blown 18-man orgy.
You think he's a loser because he decided on 6 man content. He thinks he's a genius because he picked up on the fact that most of the population is affiliated with 6 boxing.
People really need to be more conscious of the messages we are sending vs the message you think they should hear.
Lakshmi.Glaciont
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 758
By Lakshmi.Glaciont 2024-09-22 22:21:23
What if we limit the tools to 6-box :S
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 608
By Asura.Melliny 2024-09-23 00:13:13
Quote: It might be slower to find groups and they might have to wait around a bit, but you can full-time DD in WoW, XIV, Guild Wars 2, Elder Scrolls Online, LotRO, SWTOR, etc and expect to get somewhere reasonably fast,
FFXIV has the duty finder system and an extremely lengthy main story quest. The side quests, extra unlockable dungeons, 8 man raids, and 24 man raids are all designed with the same philosophy in mind. All story events are group related. Solo duty's can be completed by any job and usually have a plethora of NPC's to help fill in any missing roles. Dungeons are run by light partys composed of 1 tank, 2 DPS, and 1 healer. Full parties consist of 2 tanks, 2 healers, and 4 DPS, so 8 man is just two 4 man groups. 24 man Raids are just 3 full parties and there is only one instance of 3 zones for each per expansion. Furthermore, in 14 all jobs in every role are interchangeable. A dark knight, gunbreaker, paladin, or warrior will all tank the fights just fine. A pictomancer, black mage, summoner, red mage, samurai....the list goes on and on... can all dps just fine. Any healer can perform the same tasks required of a healer role (they all cure, res, mitigate etc on pretty even parity). Any fight will allow any job. In 11 we need specific jobs for specific fights.
Everything in 14 is designed to be player inclusive, and unless you want to do the highest level extreme/savage/ultimate content (which is just memorizing mechanics and avoiding the instant KO attacks...because every savage is dodging instant KO over and over and over) then you're going to get a group no matter what job you queue up as, and you're going to clear it even if you can't contribute that much yourself because the group will carry you. FF11 is nothing like 14. You don't get free invites to content, and if you wanna do modern content you have to have appropriate jobs and gear. In 11 gear is far more valuable than it is in 14, because in 11 end game gear is eternal (even more so now that development is finished and no new content is coming our way ever again). In 14 every time they release a new expansion the previous expansions equipment and everything that came before it is instantly outdated and easily replaced by crafted equipment a few levels higher than the older stuff.
Modern mmo design is meant to be very relaxed and inclusive, which I can appreciate in its own environment. But in 11 things are built around the fundamentals from two decades ago. And that means the barrier for entry is higher. Different game with very... very different rules.
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1820
By Bahamut.Celebrindal 2024-09-23 01:11:16
I can get Porter Packer to work at all! no commands work, nada- any suggestions?
By Kaffy 2024-09-23 01:18:51
Buy more wardrobes!
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 38
By Sylph.Dmhlucky 2024-09-23 08:20:40
This feels like an overall discussion I read a while back about the difference of Noobs and Newbs...
There will be newer players who will put the time in, but for every one of those, you get 5 who want to be carried through everything with minimal effort.
And I'm sorry, saying, "there's a lot of content to catch up on" is BS. EXP rate is now insane compared to what it used to be, 100 EXP for an Even match, that used to take 5 times as long to kill as they do now. BLM MP costs early on are a fraction of what they used to be, Plus EXP rings, Fields of valor, Trusts. You Could get from 1-99 in a single day, less if you are carried (but that's another story)
No, as a new player, you can't wade into Omen and cleave or solo/duo/trio bosses right off the bat. You will need to put in some work. And that work will potentially be tiered. You won't go from I117 to Relic/Emp/AF +3 directly, you will take steps, to 119, Ambu base > +1 > +2. And Yes, that's gonna take time. Sure you may get lucky with an Omen drop, or a Trove drop, but don't use that as your baseline expectation.
And it will be frustrating to someone who did take all those steps to see someone just wanting to fly past it all, BUT, its also not entirely their fault. We progressed with the game, Upgraded with the game, Relic 75 was some of the best gear back in its day, As a mage, if you had the 8 ele staves, you never needed another weapon. 90% of gear pre 99 is obsolete now, so its not abnormal for newer platers to think they can just jump to the top endgame gear, Especially when they are told, you need XYZ to participate.
This also has to do with player expectations on both sides. You have your Elite players who will only do a Seg farm with the best of the best, and literally won't take "sub-par" players in. And by sub par i mean non Full rema Brd, PREMA weapon jobs etc. And then you have players who want to to get carried through everything.
There does need to be a happy medium, Kind of the same thing as raising kids. Kids don't know what questions to ask unless they are guided. Now yes, we aren't dealing with 5 year old's, and objectively shouldn't Have to tell someone to ask questions, but its a different world than what it was 20 years ago. We as the Vets also can't have the same expectations we had of ourselves back in the day.
Now unfortunately there will be "problem children" on both sides, so its best to just steer away from those. And sometimes you can't teach someone anything.
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 70
By Bahamut.Noscrying 2024-09-23 08:39:39
And it will be frustrating to someone who did take all those steps to see someone just wanting to fly past it all, BUT, its also not entirely their fault
Big issue is old people with old people mindset.
"I did it the hard way, why should it be easier for you?".
Like yes, RMEA weapons are easy to make, but frustratingly grindy requirements.
inb4 "It was already nerfed quit whining."
Irrelevant, it's still boring to repeat the same exact same task 40-60 times in a row.
Idris and Epeo still take like 6-8 months of prerequisite requirements or something like that, why not cut down the time?
Why is Hazhalm still on a 1 hour cooldown.
Why is Silversea still on a daily cooldown.
Would it kill to buff the Nyzul Token drops?
(Yes I'm currently farming another mythic)
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By Dodik 2024-09-23 08:42:58
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Shiva.Thorny
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2852
By Shiva.Thorny 2024-09-23 08:47:03
Hazhalm: Just do your nyzul and assault in between, or idle there in between RL tasks. You don't need to grind out einherjar over and over, and it would cause serious congestion issues because there is only one instance of each zone.
SilverSea: Probably should be unpatched at this point, but doubt SE will and it hardly matters. It's a minor inconvenience for a few mythics, and 2 extra days on the journey won't kill you.
Nyzul: Good group does 150k in 10 hours or less. I don't think it needs to be easier.
Idris/Epeo: Yes, fix it already. The real time gate is absolutely obscene and without it, GEO would be a great starter player job.
Carbuncle.Maletaru
サーバ: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2685
By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2024-09-23 08:54:15
For a newer player, the gil requirements (putting aside buying gil) are 1000x more onerous than the einherjar. Necropsyche and ws trials are nothing compared to farming and dedicating 60m gil.
As far as op goes, I think it's more about attitude on job selection and willingness to take advice than it is about REMA requirements.
Re-read the examples. If you're constantly on NIN when you've been told it's not going to be able to contribute until you've gotten 100 pieces of ody gear, but you can contribute on COR with a lanun knife or Barataria ring, or a geo with 900 dunna, or a whm with just empy legs, that's on you for insisting on playing a job that won't be able to do ***for months.
That aside, even if you do want to be a RNG or whatever, you probably can't be JUST that job, so it's good advice to tell them to work on multiple. Do your passion project job, sure, but also have a backup useful job for when a battle can't fit your BLM, or whatever.
If you're playing only a single dd job as a new/returning player, you're being carried in 100% of events. If you play GEO, WHM, RDM, COR, and frankly I would even say BRD, you can at least contribute. Even with 4 songs and no Marsyas, (with CC), a BRD contributes a whole hell of a lot more than an ungeared SMN, DD, etc.
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Carbuncle.Nynja
サーバ: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4102
By Carbuncle.Nynja 2024-09-23 08:59:57
Presuming equal skillset and the barrier is equipment:
A shitty support is still a net benefit to a group.
A shitty DD that gets out DPSed by a support job is a net-negative.
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 38
By Sylph.Dmhlucky 2024-09-23 11:00:23
Hence there needs to be a balance. Skipping everything and expecting to succeed at endgame with others carrying you isn't good. Getting every single upgrade along the way over 20 years, isn't really "good" either but its how the game was.
The other issue ofc is that people don't want to play supports. There's a lot of responsibility that comes with the support title. People would rather just mash Ws's and not need to focus on doing other things. But this isn't 14. That doesn't work for most content.
Carbuncle.Maletaru
サーバ: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2685
By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2024-09-23 11:14:26
There's a lot of responsibility that comes with the support title
For WHM, sure. There is next-to-0 responsibility that comes with playing GEO, BRD, or COR. People tell you to use XYZ roll, song, or bubble and then you apply that roll, song, or bubble.
I guess you need to place the GEO bubble in the right spot/stand in the right place? Decide when to use Dematerialize? There are a couple decisions, but for the most part it's pretty braindead stuff and if you mess something up it will have extremely limited consequences.
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サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 38
By Sylph.Dmhlucky 2024-09-23 11:26:54
Ok, lets rephrase, there's a lot more responsibility with a Good support than a standard DD. Because you aren't just buffing as a support.
Carbuncle.Nynja
サーバ: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4102
By Carbuncle.Nynja 2024-09-23 11:28:50
A poorly geared support that is only capable of buffing is still significantly more useful than a DD whos DPS is in the 3 digit range.
A bard with Blurred+1, Langelik, Apollo's that is capable of keeping songs up (this is the skill requirement) is useful to the group. Even if all they're doing is support, its a benefit to the others. A DD who cant deal damage and keeps eating aoe damage is a sponge. Their entire role is "damage dealer" and they're failing at that.
Look I'm not trying to gatekeep here, everyone wants the community in this game to be the best it can be and that means helping beginners evolve into veterans.
However, I saw this thread on Reddit today about WoW and it really reminded me of my experience in FFXI lately: https://old.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/1fl6az3/wow_has_a_problem_where_everyone_wants_to_do_hard/
"WoW has a problem where everyone wants to do hard content but only 5% of those people want to put in the absolute bare minimum amount of effort required to do that content"
I feel like this accurately describes modern FFXI as well. The last few linkshells I've gotten into that actually did events, it was roughly 3 or 4 veteran players who knew what they were doing and had a solid spread of jobs with adequate gear and knew how to play them, then 10-15 somewhat newer players who have absolutely nothing except one or two DD jobs which they claim are "pretty well geared" but are actually rocking a Kaja weapon and fulltiming Ambuscade armor. These players go quiet the moment folks mention that we need a COR, BRD, GEO, WHM, etc in order to do the content they're wanting to do. Same when directly encouraged to level a job that can contribute at events without top-end gear, they just kind of go quiet and weeks/months later they're still doing the same thing: asking to come on their crappy NIN because they "need to get better gear." (Hint: DD jobs need better gear than anyone else in the group. Literally ANY other job will be easier to contribute with than the one job newbies all want to play which is DD.) These people are trying to dive into Odyssey/Sortie/etc (the hardest content in the game) to get the more advanced rewards while still being unable to contribute in intermediate content that they regularly get carried through. It's completely out of order!
New players: We want to help you. We really do. But carrying dead weight gets old pretty fast. This game has a progression, it doesn't "start" once you reach the peak of performance. It basically starts when you hit Lv99. If you're 99, you are IN the prime of the game. Be patient and build yourself up brick by brick. Enjoy the journey.
Research the content. Research what builds people are doing the content with. Level and gear more than one role so that a melee job isn't the only thing you have to offer. Research how those jobs are played. ASK QUESTIONS, don't just quietly join and assume all you have to do is wack stuff with your weapon. Ask about strategy if you don't know. Ask what your job needs in order to be "good enough" for that content if you don't know.
Yes, you'll get some elitist pricks who just don't want to deal with you. Don't let that discourage you, you still did the right thing by outing yourself as a beginner. FFXI also has a fantastic base of extremely helpful players who will spend hours helping you and ask nothing in return, but we're going to lose interest pretty fast if you aren't proactive about trying to contribute. So don't take advantage of helpful players; try to find ways to make it easier for them to help you, most importantly by having a job that can support them in some way while you're with them.
FFXI players, for the most part, love helping people and are some of the most awesome and helpful MMO players around, but if you make helping you as difficult as possible then you're going to have a harder time finding willing help.
Thanks and God bless
-Perg
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