Why Will S.E Not Uncap Merits

Oh I know you're not arguing with me, and again, I know I'm not going to be a terrible rdm or even blm simply because I can't merit elemental (I'm going 8/8 blue and enfeebling). I'm fully prepared to work around not having those merits as much as need be. I just don't think I should have to :p

Anyway, I've stated my point (several times <.<) and I'm happy to discuss it further as the hypothetical debate that it is. But I don't think I'll bother if people just keep spouting the same "spoiled" and "make up your mind" ***.

Antipika, as I said, I totally respect and like you, but you really haven't given me anything in this discussion that I would call a valid argument. No offense intended anywhere along the line.

Contrary to what you think, the world doesn't revolve around you and your little BLU. I wasn't even talking to you. I was making a general statement. I know, I know, it's hard to believe that someone actually doesn't give a damn about what you have to say, the great and powerful BLAZZA! But if you actually got your head out of Equivocator's *** and read the orignal post, and I quote:


you would see that I didn't just pull this argument out of thin air because it was already proposed, and I didn't see anyone bring up the fact that capping out attributes would affect WS base damage.

So you call me an idiot based on what exactly? That my point is valid and WOULD affect the game?

At the moment, you can have 5/8 on all three skills and put an extra merit where you see fit, and you would still be efficent enough to do your job.

Maybe you should look at what gears you would wish to have for BLM/RDM/BLU and see if you can make a combo from all three jobs with certain equipment

Hint: Think Morri

@Kat, you're an idiot because you're arguing for the sake of arguing and bring up a stupid suggestion that was answered three times by the 4th post. We're on page 6 now, the discussion has moved on and considering you've been present on every page I'd assume that you've read it and would have seen that. Unless you have ADD, it's really not normal to be having a group discussion for what's probably the equivalent of at least an hour or two, and then suddenly decide to point out how stupid the very first comment was with absolutely no reference to what the conversation is currently about. I'm not saying you were wrong, nor did I, I'm simply saying that, well, you're an idiot.

@Korpg, I am going for morrigan's but really need to do a lot more salvage than I'm doing. 5/8 in all three wouldn't be such a bad idea, and I've certainly been considering it. Although (not really the point) it would have to be 7/5/4, as blu magic needs to be at 7 to reach the highest damage modifier tier with relic hat.

Elemental Magic would only help SCH/BLM jobs to be honest, since RDM doesn't really have an excuse to nuke except for Chainspell Nuke. Even then you would really have to build that elemental magic skill by gears, not by merits.

I ask you this though, what do you wish to be a main RDM of?

Main heal?
Main buff?
Main debuff?
Little bit of all 3?

Cause that should determine what you should put your merits on to be honest.

No, I'm not an idiot, because I brought up a valid point. I stopped caring about yours and Equivicator's weak arguments on page 5. The fact that both of you are indecisive and don't want to be bothered picking a main job isn't something I consider a "valid" argument. Don't ruin the game for the rest of us because you can't handle a few restrictions.

I was hoping to bring up a point that wasn't brought up so it could be discussed by the OP and people who think that unlimited merits are such a grand idea.

I don't give a damn what the conversation is currently about. You're not the leader of this forum. You can't dictate how the conversation goes. If you think you can then well I'm sorry. But don't sit there and call me an idiot because I brought up a point that hinders on your argument. The fact I didn't bring up combat and magic merits in that post should be a blinking, neon sign the size of the Great Wall of China that says "I am not specifically talking to you!" But you're so wrapped up in your "I want to be a pimp BLU, and BLM, and RDM!" argument you can't see past the fact that other people brought up even dumber ideas than yours for even dumber reasons and I was addressing them.

So continue to call me an idiot, but the simple fact that you still thought I was talking to you just makes you look like an egomaniac.

Can I have the cliftnotes of the argument?

I really don't wana go back thru 5 pages of arguements lol, I just got into this thread towards the bottom of page 5 to be honest.

Blazza and Equivicator take this stand that uncapping merits isn't game breaking. People debate/argue back and forth. I finally realize they're both lost causes and go back to the original post to talk about something else. Blazza gets angry, calls me an idiot, because I stopped talking to him.

The end.

Is it really game breaking though?

I mean, think about it.

Only way it would be game breaking is if it limits the number of people who can merit.

Say, I get 5/5 STR, DEX, INT, and MND. You can only get 5/5 STR and INT.

That would be game breaking, but making it "unlimited" wouldn't break the game because it makes us Notorious Monsters, which is what we should be anyway lol

My entire point is the game is easy enough as it is. Why make it any easier? Over the years, we've gotten access to more powerful gear and abilities, but the difficulty of the monsters/missions have stayed stagnant. Balance is completely out the window, and I feel with this suggestion of completely opening up merits and uncapping them, it's only making it worse and feeding into "I want it and I want it now!" mentality we all have grown to hate from the WoW players.

Tell that to the new NMs

While the old missions have stagnated, the newer ones haven't.

Balance is there in the form of the new, not in the old.

Just quit your bitching you can have multiple 75's but how often do you play each? "Everyday" Ya...

For EG Players most likely your on your same job or you play 2 maybe 3.
That's more then enough merits, the system is fine. Oh wait I have capped enfeebling and ele... I want ninjutsu for my NIN... Quit your bitching deal with it.

And for the tenth time, I'm not talking about making it easier for any one job, I'm talking about adding variety.

That's right, I'm talking about 2, maybe 3 jobs here...

As I've said, I can deal with how it is fine now, but what's wrong with wanting a little more? Again, I just don't understand why so many people are against this idea when it wouldn't effect any one job. The only answers people have given are "because it makes the game too easy" when it doesn't make a difference or "because you should have to choose one job over others", why? Or my favourite response: "Quite your bitching deal with it."

I'm not entirely open to changing the merit system to allow more merits per category, or changing the categories up. From an EG situation, if you are RDM, BLM, and say.... SCH, these are the only 3 jobs that can fully benefit from having max merits in MP, Enfeebling, Elemental, or Dark Magic, or any combination of the 3 magic categories. WAR could potentially benefit from having a higher maximum in combat, based on their versitility in weapon choices, but most WAR are either GA or Dual Wield Axe/Sword. I'm old school, I still prefer the Dual Wield. Looking at it that way, raising the cap would not break the game, or make it any easier. Allowing a player to max say Summoning Magic, Singing, Wind, then capping Elemental, Enfeebling, and Dark would in no way hinder the game, or break the merit categories. Let's face it, you can only be on one job at a time.... what do people want next.. to be able to play 2 jobs at once on the same char? I'm an EG BLM, since my WAR sucks and im a Taru, so a change would only make me have to get more merits, but in no way do I think it would hurt the gameplay.
Edit: Not raising the cap itself, raising the cap to a category is what I mean.

They will change the merit system eventually. They already did increase category caps before. They won't do it for awhile, but eventually it will happen.

Why? Because, it is something else to sink your time into and keep people playing!

It wouldn't be "game breaking" in any way. You can already merit any 1 or 2 jobs to their full potential. Making it so you can merit other jobs to their full potential doesn't change anything except make the player more versatile.

Real quick... Before I say this, I'm going off the assumption that uncapped meritted means you would have the combination max lifted (EG: 8/8 on every combat skill) if that's incorrect, disregard this.

Given the fact job specific (IE: Group 1 and 2) merits are split already.. I can't see how this would be game breaking.. I have 16 Great Axe skill as a PLD.. Not going to help bust out a magical 2k damage Shield Break. I'd still be using my same setup, sword/shield, and I'd still have the capability to max both. If people want to argue that they prefer it being customizable sure, but this "lulz it makes the game so easy" is kind of HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE... Let's assume I have all combat skills 8/8, I am on my 75THF/37NIN. All of those combat merits will be ignored barring the ones I have meritted normally. Dagger, evasion, marksmanship, parry all play a benefit, but polearm, great axe, katana, etc isn't going to do a lick of good, little on make *any* mob in the game easier (8 merits, 16 skill levels, beginner WS only, so not even on TW farming).

So yeah... I gotta agree, it's already possible if you buy multiple accounts, and I can't see any reasoning as to how having unlimited combo points (That is, 8 point cap on individual skills, unlimited skill number) is going to make anything in the game easier, just allow me to customize more of my jobs as to how I want to play them.

They will eventually I'm sure. It won't make anything game breaking. Just allow characters to play their lv75 job to the full potential.

8/8 Dark Magic? Oh trust me that would be game-breaking for us solo RDMs breaking a new tier... System is fine just leave it.

Except, the old NMs and old gear are still highly sought after. If they were obsolete, it would be a different ball game.

So 216 Dark Magic (RDM) vs 285 Dark Magic (BLM) would be gamebreaking..... how? RDM gets one more purely based Dark Magic spell than BLM does (Bio III). Might add a bit more damage, or duration, not exactly sure how Bio III works as I am not 75 RDM with it unlocked and 5/5 merit. The 16 extra skill might also add a second to a Stun, but will by no chance beat out a BLM based on skill alone. BTW, this DOES NOT take gear into consideration, and I do not think a RDM can match a BLM even if the RDM has a full Dark Magic set and the BLM does not, would have to do some research on that to confirm. 8/8 Dark Magic might be absolutely wonderful for a DRK, seeing as it would also put them at 285 skill, and stack on a ton of gear, I do believe DRK actually gets more Dark Magic + gear than BLM, or they are very very close. So, explain how that is gamebreaking? Oh, and if that was a sarcastic statement, I apologize if you think it was an attack, because it was not.

Going to 8/8 would allow RDM to reach the otherwise impossible to reach tiers of Bio III that will make solos quicker and more MP efficient.

And as anyone knows about RDM soloing, quicker fights = safer fights.

It would mean that a RDM bio III is stronger/better damage than a BLMs bio II.

The only reason very few RDM do this, is that elemental and enfeebling are a better combo (basically the minimum requirements for 75 rdm). So I wouldn't call it game breaking, but its certainly a massive buff to any RDM and BLMs out there than use 3 magic types but can only merit 2.

But the ability to cap 3 magic skills would be amazing (and I hope they implement this some time) then I could cap the main skill for all 3 of my jobs (elemental for blm, enfeebling for rdm and dark for drk).

Im nto sure what you mean by 8/8 dark merits would break rdm. You need 211 skill to reach a new tier on bio III which you can easily get by macroing blood gauntlets, or dark torque/merciful cape etc.
Unless you mean the 250 tier, which you can still get if you really want by spamming some equip in fov ( and if its soo gamebreaking why wouldnt you). Anyway I would hardly call shortening a 2 1/2 hr fight to 2hr 10 mins gamebreaking. Oh and i guess i should lvl rdm now seeing as i have 8/8 dark magic merits as my rdm would be gamebreaking?

It wouldn't be game breaking. But when you cross over from 210 to 211+ Dark Magic as a Redmage you see the Huge diffrence it makes in DoT fighting style. It is not game breaking for 250 is still rechable as redmage/ninja on darkday with Diabolos ring and full Dark gear. If it was so game breaking all redmage would wait for darkday for all poped nm solo fights.

Its just helpful and would be nice.

8/8 Enfeebling 8/8 Elemental will forever be more benifical to a redmage then 8/8 Dark.

That's kinda what I was going for, without the sarcasm, but I like it :D. Saying 8/8 Dark Magic on RDM would be gamebreaking, in a skill RDM ranks E in, would be like saying 8/8 Enhancing Magic would be gamebreaking for a BLM, who also ranks E. 8 additional merits in a category that ranks that low would in no way be gamebreaking. Sure, you might get maximum usage out of Bio III, and you may save yourself 10 minutes on a solo fight, but that is the absolute beauty of the current merit system. Even as a BLM, I would not burn 8 merits on Dark Magic, when, with the right gear if my math is correct, could push my Dark Magic to 319. Wizard's Tonban, Sorcerer's Gloves, Igqira Huaraches, Abyssal Earring, Dark Earring, Merciful Cape, Nashira Manteel, Dark Torque, and if I really really wanted to be an *** it would be 321, Crimson Belt. 337 if I 8/8 Dark Magic.... and that' without any HQ gear. In no way am I attempting to be a ***, but if you think I am, then that's ok by me. That's BLM gear, most of which RDM can equip. Not in the mood to do the math on what RDM can hit, I'm not 75 RDM. Oh, and Anrin Obi on Darksday!

As I said, I don't support the view of it being game breaking.

My point was, it allows RDM to break into the 9hp/tic tier, which can not be reached from gear alone. This makes the best solo job in the game, better at soloing. Again, as I said not game breaking, but certainly game altering.

If you have done any RDM soloing, you know that killing faster is a massive deal, saving 5-10mins off an hour long solo greatly enhances your chances of surviving.

Meriting enhancing skill on BLM is nothing like meriting dark on rdm. Enhancing will increase the amount your phalanx absorbs by 1 damage and reduce the amount of MND needed to cap stoneskin, neither is a big deal, neither makes you better at being a BLM.

As I said a RDM with fully merited darkmagic and capped bio III is better DoT than BLM with bio II, so in any fight where you need strong dot, the balance shifts to RDM. That's slightly bigger deal than 1 more damage absorbed with phalanx.

Not to mention things like Chainspell stun, on some mobs (CoP dynamis bosses and Dynamis lord come to mind) RDM struggles to land stun. With 16 'free' skill you will need less CS stunners as they should be able to land it. Also there is less chance of a wipe from a nasty TP move/spell getting through.

Being able to cap 3 magic skills would be a big deal for RDM (and other jobs obviously), I have no idea if SE will ever allow us 24 upgrades in the magic section. But if they do, I will be capping Dark ASAP.

I will not argue, it would be nice to cap 3 magic skills, but I highly doubt SE will do it. If they did, I'd cap Dark just because I am a BLM. I don't solo on RDM, its 68 on my main, and I hate playing the job (bash me if you like, I don't care). Hitting the 9hp/tic could be game altering, but might not be, we may never know. And yes, fully merited Dark Magic/Bio III on RDM with 251+ skill is a better DoT than a BLM with 291 Dark Magic skill using Bio II. Could be beneficial in an EG situation, or even in a solo situation. Again, we may never know, unless some RDM has capped Dark Magic, and has passed the 251 skill. Outside of solo, BLM is still the better option to Bio, simply based on the fact that RDM is generally too busy, at least with the stuff I've done in EG, to worry about sticking a Bio III on the mob. Plus most dont have Bio III maxed, therefore the better DoT falls to BLM. With solo only, it would be absolutely great to get that kind of damage out of a DoT.

Personally I find being RDM on a 'single target' fight pretty boring, unless you are low-manning.

If I am in a DD party then it basically becomes a merit party with 2 healers (normally have a WHM with me), and I have to cast -na spells now and again.

If I am in the Tank party then I am casting haste x2 and refresh x3-5 and back up curing.

Either way there is plenty of time to keep Slow II and Para II up.

Agreed with the merits issue, you need to find a RDM with the right merits to make it work. But more RDM may look into Bio III merits if they could merit darkmagic to make the most of it.

Low-manning a single target fight can be fun.... except in one situation. 1 SCH, 1 BLM, 2 RDM, 1 WHM, 2 PLD, 1 WAR, and a COR.... on of all things, Lambtom Worm. I do consider 9 bodies low-manning that son of a ***. I don't envy any RDM in those situations by any means. I prefer the job of stunning, nuking the holy hell out of things, and spamming dispel just as quick as I can. To each their own I suppose.

I would still like to know what exactly the OP meant by uncapped.. if the job specific (Group 1 and Group 2) were uncapped and accessible, then yeah, game breaking, still not seeing how Bio III would make any real impact on the game.

If your RDM is tossing out Bio III, safe to assume it's a big fight so even theoritically if the RDM's Bio III surpassed a BLM's Bio II, you'll damn sure still want your meritted BLMs speeding the God/Stat/whatever along, not an army of RDMs, even if they had 8/8 elemental/enhancing/enfeebling/dark. I guess it would make RDM/NIN soloing abit quicker... I guess, but that's hardly worth mention either.

Also, while the 9hp/tick tier is pretty hard to obtain for alot of RDMs,even if they have maxed magic merits, the next tier down is *easily* obtainable and is 8hp/tick, while yes, it adds up, it's once again, not exactly shattering the mechanics, party roles, or much anything.

I really would like the OP to state what exactly entails "Uncapped" merits.. Should I be able to Aura Steal as SAM/THF? Hell no, but having 8/8 enhancing on my PLD isn't going to be a huge deal either, the native skill caps themselves kinda enforce that.

Well uncaping im trying to say is for everything

Group 1 and Group 2 max all out for all jobto the cap thay allready have set


like blm for (exp)
Group 2
freeze 2 x 5 merit
burst 2 5 merits
flood 2 x5 merit
and so on


Group 1

5x ice
5x water
5x wind
and so on


same for all the other

= the hp and map cap the 2 of them to 8/8
and attributes the same 5/5 on all of them