PL Is "Evil" As Astral Flow Burn?

Yesterday my friend (sam18) want ding to lvl 20 for leave dunes, but no partys on dunes and the only lfp:

thf/
cor/rng
brd/whm
blm/whm

(and 2 lvl12 lfp on korroloka)

I think assist my friend and help a little the lfp guys, whit PL.

All on dunes accept, but when I ask to blm: "{Level Sync} 11 {Do you need} PL" he responce: "I don't go to partys whit PL"
well not is the first time someone tells me this (5 times), before I ask why, and tell me "PL make noobs player" "PL is cheat" "I don't like PL as Astral" well I respect his decicion, but why now this "rebellion" vs PL and why now when is hard find members for a balanced party?

someone has passed this before? and why you think?

PD: ironically, later I find this blm on a party of 4 members whit PL

I'd take a pt with a pl over no pt at all if I were LFP.
Those people are dumb, but it is true that through having a hard time fighting you learn how to play the job.

Personally I don't find PL as 'evil' as Astral Burn, as you can still use and get to know your job. This being said, Tanks and Healers may not get the same benefit from a PL, and shouldn't really level up with them if they are not undersyncing purely so they can get in touch with their job (And not feel as though they are leeching).

I can understand why people would say it feels like cheating perfectly. My g/f has acted as a PL for some of my parties before, but usually only as a 'desperate measure' if we get into real trouble, to take away any links and to raise us incase we die. We don't want some members of the party to feel useless just because there is a PL present.

IMO, that's all a PL should be doing. Help out the PT's healer if "***hits the fan". That being said, when I PL I generally don't mind cure bombing to keep a chain if the PT's healer is resting MP. Keeps the PT happy, and keeps me not wanting to brutalise people for being whiney.

I box my 2nd account/plvl all the time, when I can be bothered to sign on. I couldn't care less if someone has an issue with it. When they start paying my sub. fee, they can tell me what to do with my accounts and impose their pseudo-morality & double standards upon me.

Edit:

That's not to say that I can't "empathize" with the anti-PL people. I used to be a steadfast anti-plvler, too. I wouldn't box plvl, even though I could. At the end of the day, all that holier-than-thou "learn thy job" crap is exactly that, crap.

If someone wants to learn how to play their job, they will, regardless if there's a power leveler, or not.

Idk I'm mixed. Sure it breeds bad habits but can be very helpful since early on resting is much more frequent. Also I had pls the whole time I lvld whm to 38. It helped allow me keep divine capped and sometimes out nuke the blms!!!

Back in the days when dunes still had a average of 80+ people with at least 10 of those LFP, then I'd be a bit like, why would you need a PL there. But these days, it doesn't really matter that much.

Anyway, when I PL, I usually keep the curing to a bare minimum. This for the simple reason that the people I'm PL-ing can actually learn their job, and in case of healers and tanks, that they can get skillups while being PL-ed. Haven't really PL-ed in a long time however.
But with the jobs becomming stronger over the years, it they usually don't need a PL anymore, especially if they already have a normal healer and a DNC or /DNC in the party.

But to get back on topic. I don't really consider PL-ing cheating, and don't really see any moral objection to it. But I can understand that some people do.

so i have a couple characters now, and occasionally when/if i go out to low level xp, ill feel a little generous and bring out one of them to haste *** if anything, maybe pl with curing/pulling if it helps even. long while back i got invited to this party out in altepa.. i suppose i was replacing someone on account they were all there already standing around waiting. i dismount bird, and we pretty much start up right away. couple mobs go by and i can tell its a pretty decent party, really didnt need any outside curing, but i kept hasting myself and the other melees. after the second kill, i was asked to tell my "friend" to stop pling us by their party leader. i of course asked him why, and told him its me just pl'ing.. he proceeded to tell me that they just dont want it, with no explanation. so i say, well thats fine i guess.. but, i have him here, and im going to do it anyway. you might not want it, but your going to at least be getting hasted while im here, theres no good reason for me not to. he asked me if i wanted them to find a rep for me, to which i replied, your willing to kick someone for hasting the melee's in your party ? and your wanting me to stay until you find a rep if im not willing to comply lol ? he replied yes and yes. i immediately disbanded/warped, told him that im not willing to *** around with nublets over some trivial *** ***like that, that even sitting around in town lfp would be better than submitting myself to that kind of group, and to never invite me again. 3 of the 5 /telled me wtf was that ***essentially, that they couldnt believe what had just happened.. which actually made me feel a little less crazy and justified. ironically i got invited to another group couple mins later (being bard of course), and it sure enough ended up being a spectacular party, while they got to look for yet another rep. very good players with 2x pl pulling/hasting.. can make for a good *** time, as im sure many of you have experienced as well.

i know a lot of people dont like pl'ing for a lot of cliche reasons, but fortunately that has been my only negative experience with it personally.

The only real time pl's bother me is when a party decides to overcamp because they have a pl. You end up missing half the time because the mobs are just too high. Or at high end levels. Seeing a pl with a party fighting lesser colibri seems like a bit of overkill. Once you are in your fifties, it just seems lazy.

However, when I leveled whm in the jungle, I was thankful for the pl. He slowly backed off on healing while talking to me in /tell. Gave me pointers on playing whm and I was able to keep up without much of a problem once he left. If not for him, I never would have realized how useful a regen is. (Thinking back, don't know why people stay in qufim instead of jungles. Chaining mandies is some really nice xp)

The only time pl's really bother me is when I'm tanking. And then only if they start telling me to lay off the voking or whatnot so the pl can keep hate. :/ If that's the case, why even get a tank why not just get another random dd and let a party who actually needs the tank have them.

There are a few times PL'ing is taken to an extreme.

Example : Group of 4 or 5 players are together in _____ (Qufim) with a PL and find a level sync person, when that person gets to high they replace him with a new sync person and continue on. This behavior continues until they hit level XX (75) and go on not having learned the last n (50+) levels of their job. They account saying they have seen other people do it and therefor will be fine, and proceed to make a hash of it.
((other locations are East Ronfaru (S), Garliag Citadel, Moblin-Maze, ... ))

Would I:
--------AF BURN
... on my 75 Corsair or my 74 Summoner sure. Really I hate soloing my summoner and campaign isn't any better. I'd like capped XP on my Cor as well, but I'm not a meripo Cor i prefer it for short events (more than an hour and I've prolly trained a monkey to play and gone to bed)

I wouldn't goto AF burn on anything else.

--------PL / be PL'd
... not anymore. I can maintain an decent XP per hour solo or with 1-2 friends. If you really think you need a PL to do well I've probably spoken my peace and if you can't function without it and won't learn to, I'll leave you by the wayside and go on without you.

I honestly don't find PLing to be "evil" and no where NEAR as craptacular as Astral Burn.
If done right, the PL is there just to keep a chain going and reduce resting time in areas such as The Dunes where skills and spells available to you are too low and not that stellar.

A PL should only assist... not "take over" for the mage in your party (granted you have one).
the HUGE difference between PLing and AB is: People are actually playing their jobs!!!! and Learning them!!!
The Tank... learns to tank.
The Puller... learns to pull
The Healer... well...ok perhaps he's getting off easy with the PL there

and PLing wont push you 10..15..or even 20 levels in the span of a minute.

Astral Burn is the easy way out for people who "don't want to waste time leveling a job" thus gimping their skills, their knowledge of the job in general, and the mechanics of a well put-together party.

It's laziness at its finest, and the easy way out for the cry babies who either can't make their own party, or are just out to push themselves immediately to End-Game.
Creating scores of "End-Game" players herp-derping their way across the countryside.

These two posts pretty much sum up my opinion on PLing. If I'm bored and GF is in a PT, I'll hang around and toss out some cures when it looks like they're hurting or their healer needs to get MP.

This is really a pointless argument tbh -- I've met -plenty- of people that leveled their jobs to 75 in exp parties and still suck at. Someone said it up earlier that if people want to learn their jobs they will regardless of how they get there. If they want to suck they will regardless of how they get there. Depending on the path they choose of leveling just depends on how fast they get there.

Its really just a matter of preference some people enjoy making exp parties etc. Others would rather not deal with seeking / making parties / finding reps etc.

Over the last few months, I've come to understand that the only people who don't like SMN/AF burns are people who've never done it.

And the whole thing about having to level a job yourself to 75 to be able to play it well is just plain nonsense. None of the jobs are hard enough to play that it'll take you more than a month at most to be able to master, assuming that you have the ability to master it. There are other people who simply suck and will continue to suck no matter how much time they spend playing the job.

pretty much this

"True Strike"

There are so many excuses why a person sucks at their job now, it's stupid to pin point it on one reason and run with it. A lot of players were around before Astral Burning, and the same players that suck as a result of Astral Burning sucked before when Astral Burning didn't exist.

So I don't see how Astral Burning creates "shitty" players, because they were shitty before Astral Burning.

are that many people so new at the game that a PL party in the dunes will ruin their chances of learning to play a job for the rest of the game?

having said that; I would rather turn down a non-PL party.

Only jobs that I didn't like to see get PL'd is Pld, Nin, and healers.
Those jobs are somewhat a learning job. Sure every job is pretty much common sense, but timing and what to do and not do are key in those jobs, which is something you learn while leveling. DDs are pretty straight forward - Auto attack and WS, tossing in JAs here and there.

Edit: When I say PL'd I mean 1-75 without actually playing the job at all.

That pretty much sums up Astral Burn

Listen, people who hate astral burns are stupid. When you've played as long as most people have and pretty much know how all the jobs work anyway leveling it it just a formality. If you've got a fast easy way to level it your damn right every one of them hypocrites that "hate" astral burns would jump on one if they had the chance.

I've done Astral Burns, been in quite a few, and it took me ages to catch up with what to do and when with my job, that is my reason for hating them now.

You may say the haters only hate because they have never been in one, but likewise, the only ones who ever defend them are the ones who completely rely on them to get their jobs levelled now.

You may be able to learn your job at 75, but when you get the idiots who jump from Astral burn 12-75 into events or merit parties, that's when you really feel what's it doing.


Astral Burn may not be the only cause of players not knowing their job, but it's undoubtedly an assist, since alot of people don't even bother to take the time to get to know it even at 75.

This.Never done a burn; still support the system. Shitty players will be shitty and good players will be good, if you can't learn your job on your own time outside of EXP then don't embarrass yourself by attending events on burned jobs that aren't up to par. More EXP for those who will take the small amount of time it actually takes to learn almost any job in this game.

New players AB'ing is a separate matter altogether in my mind and one I discourage because they should take the time to learn game mechanics as well as job mechanics. If you already have that in hand I don't really care provided you put in the effort later.

Evil is the wrong word..

First for new players to the game yes PL'ing can take certain tolls that are very hard to correct expecially if you are a mage. So yes PL'ing can have negative effects. (Cept that one time I was the whm in the pt with a PL I took a 2 hour nap and no one noticed..it was sweet)

But then again this is 2009 so most low to mid range pt's aren't going to be filled with nublets, but instead filled with ppl that are already 75 that have a good comprehension of game mechanics that are looking to get out of signet areas ASAP. ^ If this statement is true then I have no problem with PL I actually encourage it..most times jobs are boring and you don't really learn the job til the 55~60's when you either get better spells or better WS and learn how to effectively rape face. Now this isn't true with all jobs and I know that ppl are going to disagree with me..but if its me and I get 2 pt invites one has a pl and one doesn't...I'll give you 3 guesses as to which PT invite I will be accepting.

And yes Astral burns are very very evil..and by Evil I mean sexy.

Here we go again...

I'm not pro-AB because I've been in them, but when is the last time you seen a brand new player come in and know that AB's exist and solely used them to lvl? How do you know it's the AB that made the player a dummy? The player was a dummy beforehand. They could easily learn how to play the job while skilling up because of the gimped skill. It's the player that's making the AB's look bad for going lfp or doing events with the gimped skill.

"People don't know how to play or are gimped!"
This is the sole point coming from people that are against AB. If those that AB keep up with their skills or played the jobs well then no one would *** about it.

To me this is just coming from a bunch of people Q.Q because they don't get invited or feel they've been "out exp'd".

I have AB'd and have nothing against it. I find it useful for people that want to merit on jobs that greedy people don't invite or for the people that just want to lvl a subjob for their main. For those that take them to 75 by AB then more power to them, but I know who those people are and will not invite them unless they can prove they know the job.

Personally, I'll only really PL ls EXP parties, when I know they know how to do the job correctly, but just need the extra help or whatnot. If I end up PLing a friend's party, I'll watch closely, but I won't cure unless the tank either loses too much HP or loses hate to one of the mages.

edit: As for Astral Burns.... It's more a matter of a lack of regards to a completely respectable job, to me. I mean, if PLD as a job were exploitable for a "cheap" way of gaining EXP like that, I would be a little more affronted. But that's only because I take these things seriously, and that's a personal matter.

From the game side, you're looking at the destruction of the old EXP party basics, and completely keeping everyone from learning how to do their job from experience. Then again, if they're "just leveling their subs" or don't really care for the job enough to experience it hands-on, I suppose ABs are fine--to each his or her own.

Question, is Astral Burn Party still evil if you are level 75 and already know your job in and out and have skills all maxed, and you sync down and do it for merit points?

I've never done an AB pt, haven't played much in the last 2 years, just curious as I see lots of posts these days about them.

I have a question for all the Astral Burn Fanatics out there...

There's a lot of RMT Sites that promote services to "Level a craft to 100" for you... or "Power Level your Job" to 75 for you.

ALL RMT Theft and hacking aside that may result from it...

My question is: WOULD YOU take them up on that offer if it were a free service?

Answer honestly.