Am I Planning It Right?

Do the opposite of what this guy says. Joyeuse is absolutely the best you can get. It even puts Hauteclaire to shame, for tanking. Hitting more often means more hate. Almost enough, if not more than enough to offset the +4 enmity on Macuahuitl+1. And of course, Atonement does epic damage which means more enmity which means more damage from Atonement which means more enmity...Starting to see a pattern here?

And Terror Shield and Koenig Shield are both Kite shields so they both proc just as often. The only difference is Terror Shield has roughly 5-6 enmity whereas Koenig just has 3. Honestly tanking stats on a shield haven't mattered outside like Dynamis in a really long time, since everyone and their mother's PLD is /NIN nowadays. Just maximize enmity on shield and don't compromise on proc rate. Terror Shield is statistically the best shield before Aegis.

Askar Zucchetto over Walahra Turban ?

Yeah I do lol. I don't have Atonement. I'm old school like that. I try to put down about 100-200 weapon skill points a day but 16k is still a lot. Climbing Nyuzle from 0 is a pain when the only people you get don't quite know what to do. I've put that venture on hold.

My theory is PLDs did fine without it, and still can.

I've seen PLDs use Atonement and still can't keep hate, so I'm really not that impressed. I'd trade my Joyeuse for a Hauteclaire any day.

862 is the highest possible dmg you can get with atonement according to wiki. There's no endless cycle of doing more damage more hate more damage. It's capped. I've barely seen it break 600.

Was thinking of Tatami shield for some reason thinking terror was a tower shield. Meh, I still like Koeing better.Askar.

Can you explain this, please? I agree with Askar being better, but it's the _why_ that I want to make sure I understand more.

I guess for the added DEF? Though the HP on Walahra Turban means less enmity lost and the HP is another Flash, so...

Idk, definitely macro in Turban for spells and utsusemi though.

750 is the standard Atonement damage and the reason you're not seeing it break 600 much is that the Paladin is not generating much enmity <_< I can have 750 Atonements up and running within 30 seconds, 60 at the most in a standard fight. Combine those with Joyeuse + 2x March + sometimesMadrigal TP gain and you have destruction.

Hauteclaire is pretty bad for any fight that isn't DI/Khim(ironically)/maybeOdin anyway.

No. 1% Haste will produce more TP gain over time.

EDIT: To clarify, the TP-relevant stats on Askar vs Walahra are 4dex vs 1% haste essentially. 4dex is 2acc to a 1handed weapon.

1% Accuracy against 1% Haste;



You'll see the Haste will win.

Now, Askar Zucchetto will almost definitely do more melee damage over time than Walahra Turban will at the accuracy values Paladin will be at, but it will not produce more TP over time. Since Paladin melee damage over time is incredibly insignificant on HNM, the extra TP over time for more Atonements/Chivalries will far outweigh this.

Whenever you need DEF, you will be wearing Koenig Schaller anyway. If you don't have Koenig, Darksteel Cap.

Orly? Oh yeah the def difference also means you will block 1% more dmg. And the vit will help your cures.

While the turban gives you hp/mp + 30, which the mp is nice, and meh on hp, askar provides you with 23 defense, good for when you get hit, dex+4 good for pld because of crappy acc, Vit+4 obvious, and -1% haste compared to the turban. So its basically like choosing between: 0 def mp/hp+30 and haste +5%, or at a cost of -1% haste from +5% and no mp/hp+30 you get 23 def acc(dex) and vit(more def).

Oh no the graphs have been brought out now! I'm out of here.

Yes, it will block 1% more damage but the only time, ideally, that that should have to come into play is when you're trying to recast Ichi or when you're doing something where /NIN is worthless.

And 5 VIT will add a whopping 1 HP to Cure IV and nothing to any other PLD cure spells. Cure V would get a 4 HP increase though.

Siren.Enternius said:
And Terror Shield and Koenig Shield are both Kite shields so they both proc just as often. The only difference is Terror Shield has roughly 5-6 enmity whereas Koenig Shield just has 3.
Dasva
Orly? Oh yeah the def difference also means you will block 1% more dmg. And the vit will help your cures.

Cant quote, but, you can't block when you don't face the mob. So as a pure KITE shield, Terror technically wins. But Kaiser/Koenig absorbs more.

Rum, I think he meant kite shield as in the size 3 shield >_>

Yes *** you I just noticed >_>

Effectively you only get 2acc though since your DEF/VIT heads are different (though Askar isn't awful for defensive purposes if no Koenig). You don't need to know all of the mathematical formulae to make a judgment between 1% Haste and 2 accuracy. Venerer Ring-1 or Blitz Ring?

I lol'd.

My point still stands D:<

Most PLDs do /nin on any HNM (not turtle.... please no /nin on turtle) Meaning they aren't getting hit making the DEF useless. Like Raenryong said: Haste wins. Hasted should be used over pretty much everything for PLD if you think about it.

Flash: Haste -> Fast Cast -> Enmity (high base enmity gain) faster your casting the more hate you are gaining, which is why homam is amazing for this.

Reprisal: Handy tool, haste fast cast so you can use it more

Utsusemi: Haste/fastcast.... common sense

the VIT+4 on Askar head it trumped by Koenig, only good thing about askar is that it has ACC. Now, if Turban doesn't break your haste tier then fine... use askar. Other than that.... turban

Terror shield has like 1 more enmity than Koenig and less base defense with no additional stats making it a lesser shield.

But srsly, fun times turtle PLD lol.

Lesser because you don't own one.

That's totally hypocritical of you to say DEF and VIT are worthless, and that HP/Enmity actually matter, and then go back and say Koenig is better because it has DEF and VIT, and no HP and less Enmity.

I based what I said on the fact that Joyeuse is mainly for solo'ing or /dnc. I still stick with the Macuahuitl+1 for any EG stuff.
If I was on the atonement bandwagon then yeah I would agree with Joyeuse being the better sword. I haven't seen it used by any other PLD enough to make me say "OMG I NEED THAT!"

Just double-checking here, but there are no tiers for Haste in the literal sense. There ARE tiers in animation displayed clientside though which can give the impression of this.

What's wrong with /nin on turtle :( our methods could be entirely different but it seemed decent to hold it while you're killing adds. KB on the other hand... /nin is almost useless there.

Ok then if blocking dmg is so crap and emnity so bomb why don't people use Wivre Shield +1? Think it has something to do with dmg blocked?

Also might add terror cost damn near 2 mil while koenig is what 200-300k? I mean if you want could go HQ on it and get the same enmity and even more vit/def.

Koenig shield > Terror because
a) more defense in place for when you casting ichi on your shield
b) additional VIT for cures

Dude, a PLD that doesn't have atonement now... kinda sad tbh. Not like its hard to get joytoy. If you don't have a atonement then u dont neeed joytoy

Basicly, there are so many equipment sets for PLD that you need alot a gear and know how to use it.

Call me crazy, but maybe it's because only one Wivre Shield+1 even exists on my server? And Terror Shield gives at worst, 1 less equivalent enmity, whereas it has 8 more DEF. Terror Shield has at least 2 more Enmity than Koenig and only has 2 less DEF. That's like sacrificing 1% Haste for 2 more ACC.

The vast majority of Paladins don't even use TP builds :( they seem to think turtle + Joyeuse = amazing TP gain incoming.

Again blowing my own trumpet, in the last HNM shell I was in, NO other Paladin even used a TP build for Atonement. Most wouldn't even use anything but Macua+1 :( I would end up dominating hate throughout entire HNM fights without doing anything special. If I ever tried to slow down for them, BLMs would get eaten... that said, they didn't have cure cheats either.

I wish I could video or show you parses (I didn't save them for whatever reason), because AtonementPaladin is very sexy. It's like hitting level 76!

I like to make things simple. Askar for /nin Koenig for /war.

/rdm on turtle. Generate way more hate then /nin. Turtle doesn't hit hard, which allows you to produce more hate. Full defense set, swapped in and out for spells consistently building hate and taking next to no damage.
/nin only provides you with shadows. So if you are taking to much damage/hit this is where you need /nin, but certainly not for Adaman/Aspid

What i mean by haste tier:
if you put only 1% haste on and cast a spell, you will see little to difference in recast.... thus a tier. You could break it up into 5% if you want, i know zerg DRKs go into it way more then PLDs would.

@ Leviathan.Chaosx

wut?

Its not that simple, Koenig for any time you are blood tanking (that includes when /nin but shadows are down). Also you have just been shown that with sensible buffs Turban > Askar

I'm just gonna say, "to each his own"
Pld is unlike every other, because its a lot harder to measure what it's doing. Gear should be based on what the player is comfortable with using, yet is also effective enough to get the job done. Simple as that.