Kenkonken Parse

This is the best post of the week.

I... to be more specific, Ryo, WS and JA have the same "JA" Delay on them, Which means using them together would be like using any 2 Job Abilities together, same thing really... Though you are technically saving a small amount of time by using Maneuver>WS, but not because of anything related to the animation ⌐ ⌐

:) dont spoil it for him

You should not be using maneuvers in this situation. Yes constant use of maneuvers will kill the master's dps. Just send the auto in and let it hit the mob. It'll take care of itself and add to your dps. And if you want a little more damage from the auto you can leave the Harle head and switch to Sharpshot body and still keep the same four attachments I mentioned earlier. True the Sharpshot body gives it a little less defense but it should still be able to stay alive with the other players. I won't lie and say it'll stay like with Valoredge body but I guess this is something someone should really test instead of just saying it can't be done.

You realize that using the automaton to compensate for lost master DPS by supporting the automaton is just filling a neverending hole of DPS loss and will just leave you at the same or less DPS right? You're not gaining anything. that's the point. sending in the automaton just offsets the loss of DPS from using maneuvers, it doesnt account for itself and the loss of the master's DPS at the same time.

OMG YOU GUYS NEED TO STFU WHEN MY MOM DIED THE ONLY PERSON I HAD BY MY SIDE WAS MY BEAUTIFUL AUTOMATON NAMED MADEMOISELLE. I DONT NEED TO WIN PARSES BECAUSE I KNOW DEEP DOWN INSIDE YOU ARE ALL LONELY VIRGINS AND I AT LEAST LOST IT TO HER (VIA PROXY W/ FLESHLIGHT). I WILL DO ANYTHING TO MAKE MY PUP HAPPY BECAUSE UNLIKE YOU GUYS SHE LOVES ME.

By Valefor.Prothescar 2013-03-21 11:26:57
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You realize that using the automaton to compensate for lost master DPS by supporting the automaton is just filling a neverending hole of DPS loss and will just leave you at the same or less DPS right? You're not gaining anything. that's the point. sending in the automaton just offsets the loss of DPS from using maneuvers, it doesnt account for itself and the loss of the master's DPS at the same time.


Sending the auto in before you even hit the NM is not supporting it. I fail to see how that kills the dps. And I said before to just leave it at that point. Although the maneuver right before the WS is a good idea. Probably the only maneuver I would use in this situation

You're losing a couple things right there.
1) Not using maneuvers means your automaton is no where near the damage of players with high buffs. I will admit it will still do damage, but it will be so much less than it would be with maneuvers I'd say it's a very small margin of improvement to the PUP's overall damage (The split would be about 80% Master 20% Automaton if even that, compared to say 70-30. Sorry if that is waaaay off, Byrth and other mathheads.)
2)Magic damage is one thing, but another thing that rapes automatons waaay more is TP move spam. Guess what is fed to monsters very quickly in a zerg situation? TP. If you're not at least using one of that earth attachments that helps reduce physical damage, and buffing them using earth maneuvers, negating magic damage to the puppet isn't going to help after the mob uses 3-4 TP moves in a matter of seconds.
3) Any experienced PUP is not going to forget about our ability to mix and match heads and frames, but there's also trade-offs to this as we all know. If we put a Harlequin head on a Sharpshot frame this means you're lowering your Ranged skill, which means lowering its ranged accuracy/attack. You're also increasing the delay between its ranged attacks by an extra 5 seconds, which is a sizeable dent to its damage output.

I'm not saying these things can't be done. What I'm saying is mathematically it is not in our favor. Yes, skill will play a factor and a good PUP can still beat jobs if they're not playing to their fullest, but if both players are playing the best they can, in similar gear sets, the PUP is quite simply not going to win.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, and I'm sorry if this is nothing you believe. But I'm tired of fellow PUPs trying so hard to defend our job and not just accepting that we have weaknesses because of flaws in our design. Like I said before, THIS DOES NOT MAKE PUP BAD. It's just not nearly as efficient for zerg events.

You, brought a tear to my eye.

All my <3 for reminding me of my feelings for Kintoki.

I love pup, I think it's the most fun job to use in this game. But defending it blindly is silly, misinformed and somewhat annoying.

Getting all the facts out of the way and all the silly arguments that will take us nowhere...... Can we see some parser?
And yea, I have clear that if PUP comes first or in the first places ppl will say the other DDs sux or if PUP comes in the last places ppl will say the other DDs were as good as the PUP since, obviously, no one likes to give PUP some credits and prefer to look outside of the job to justify it's performance, but other than that, will be interesting to see how well other fellow mythic PUPs do and use their PUPs. ^^

True dat the game mechanics basically screw u over hence no mnk ever boost every time its up lol..... I love to parse one I parsed many pups including my self fun job but zero with mythics....

Getting tired of people giving replies like this. Me, Kaparu, Spathaian and others all have said KKK is an amazing weapon for the job. We just admit that when someone specifically asks how it fares compared to other jobs, pup is behind most of the pack.

I wasn't calling names. :'(
Still, the fact that ppl look at other jobs to justify PUPs performance is true instead of looking at how the PUP gear/play the job, since there is more variations to it than to what other jobs do.

Now, can we see some parser?? ^^

Well that is what it meant lol, you save a small amount of time doing maneuver followed immediately by ws. I still have this horrid ballista mindset with pummel cuz it's so long and you can't gear swap to get rid of the animation so you basically stun yourself for a few seconds and potentially get owned XD. I didn't mean to connect the two the since blinking the ws out is what we normally do lol just a brain fartis all lol

Edit: my thumbs are too big for my phone keyboard :-(

Fact is, maths/spreadhseet will point out that PUP will fail versus let's say a rag DRK.
Now, maths will tell you who has the best gear/job combinaison, parse will show you who uses in the best efficient way their gear.
If the gap between parse and math is very slight, you can say the player use his gear perfectly, and generaly speakign, he's a good player.

So if the pup wins the parse, despite losing in "math terms" you can argue that it was the DRK didn't do his job properly, or that the PUP is very skilled.

ok no prob, got that clear. In first page I even said PUP will not beat an equally geared DD class. Let's stand that point as cleared and let's focus on the matter...

Three pages into "Kenkonken parse" post and not a single parser been posted. I wanna see some ^^

This is the only thing I could find in my logs, old Pil and I never checked the guy's gear so no idea if he was actually doing it right. He parsed good though:




edit: sorry I messed up the format a bit.

Not bad. I been parser before by some friends doing Uptala and Pil and I almost 90% of the time am in the first three spots. I never parser myself on VW though since with all the procs and stuff DDs and other ppl do the DPS can go up or down. I will parser some when I do them though.

A million times this. PUP is not going to outdamage heavy DDs on high-end content, but that's ok. We have our niches that we do well at. This is a game where everyone has multiple jobs, you don't have to force puppetmaster to do things that its not good at.

Overall I'm pretty pleased with where PUP is compared to where it used to be. We have access to lots of gear now, we have a nice WS that is bolstered with mythic weapon, automaton magic timers were changed so that the auto provides better support now, etc. All of the defensiveness really isn't necessary anymore. I do wish that SE would make maneuvers last longer, or let us put three up at once and have them last until changed, like Hasso/Seigan or Solace/Misery.

VW isn't a good place to parse. If you can do some odin V2/legion as PUP, that could provide more solid data.

Pup would be very bad on those targets. Non-existent puppet, low attack/accuracy, no way to hybrid turtle efficiently.

Ok. I don't go PUP to those though. I go RNG to Odin V.2 and legion I go usually SCH. So, if any other PUP go like PUP and parser, i'd like to see numbers. ^^

Maybe they'll be bad, but that's an even ground imo.

Is that a kkk pup and where is the automaton's damage?

The only thing winning a parse in VW shows is who isn't procing the mob more often than not. Sadly one of the stupidest things peeps do over and over again. Any event that doesn't depend on atmas or proccing or temps would be great give me a minute to think of one now a days lol...

Problem with this whole kkk thread is that I believe the last time I checked when they had a moogle event, I believe there were less then 10 pups on all servers with kkk. And I think they were all Japanese except for one or two the most. Hardly anyone puts a lot of effort into the job but a lot of people know what it can do without them experiencing it personally. (sure) I know that you have one Jonadriel but is it even completed?

Spam killing high lvl mobs like those that drop limit break 99 items work? Like get a few DDs and start killing them nonstop for like 5 mins? Since is just to compare dmg...... I dunno, just trying to figure out a way to compare dmg in a fare way.

Changing the subject pretty fast, I wonder how well PUP will do on farming new expansion mobs since PUP is great soloing high lvl non NM mobs. Maybe they can drop items that at start will be overpriced. ^^

yeah killing those lvl 100+ turtles for awhile (over time 1hr+ 5 minutes isnt nearly long enough unless just showing a zerg) in gustav tunnel seems fair game..

Yea, is 99 and had it over a year now. So, If anyone have used it for stuff, is me but I am sure there gotta be more KKK pups with as much knowledge or even more (in the field, not with spreadshits or all that theory stuff).