I think it is situational, but usually I find 6 attack > 5 str for this WS providing my attack isn't capped. If my attack is capped, I believe most likely my fstr would be capped, making those 5 str absolutely useless. The str gloves are my touch to make sure I can cap fstr on most mobs as you can see I don't have much str in that set. A 6 attack for 5 str swap is far better than 6 attack for 13 str swap if I use AF3+2 gloves. I personally think it is a pretty all around build, but I have seen ppl liking to stack VIT. I think to a certain point you have to take care of attack, it is by far the best source for damage when not capped, especially against mobs higher lvl than you.
If a mob is lvl 90, def 500, you have 900 attack, adding 10 will be a 1.1% increase in your cratio.
If a mob is lvl 95, def 500, you have 900 attack, adding 10 will be a 1.3% increase in your cratio.
Tiny bit more but you get the idea. Probably is a good idea to have another set for full VIT stack against trash mobs. With spellcast variables, not very hard to do as I have 3 sets for torcleaver.
Torcleaver Math
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Torcleaver Math
I don't have Caladbolg yet but its close to being done, got all my lanterns and most gems done so i'm starting to decide how I should gear up for torcleaver.
atm with current gear I have this is what I came up with. Currently working towards to +2 feet/legs, twilight mail, bale earring. Any suggestions on anything else I should get/add look at my set in my character page. I believe it is the most balanced set you can get and fairly easy to get.
Purposely saying screw ares feet and hands cuz I hate salvage. But IMO, if you use those two pieces, you are going to have problem capping fstr. If you say well, in abyssea, I am likely not going to need STR cuz the cruor buff, then you likely won't need that tiny bit of VIT as well since cruor buff makes the addition in VIT less significant. Inside abyssea I believe you need to stack attack, so simply swap heafoc for AF3+2 gloves and you are set. If you are a galka, you can use the +7 VIT glove and settle with AF3+2 feet outside abyssea. Swapping out heafoc will mean you need slightly more STR, thus the swap on feet. It is all about balance, you take one thing out, you have to take another out as well. Bale Gauntlets +2 have Great Sword skill +5 and nice +Att on them, that might be worth considering.
Twilight Mail and Twilight Helm definitely seem like good body/head choices. Would a weapon skill gorget on neck, and possibly the belt as well, be a better option? Not sure how it'd be aligned or if it'd be worth it. For a WS like Torcleaver the gorget/belt should produce best results.
Figured i would post some numbers. Some of these are the higher end but breaking 4k is fairly common with last resort up, using the Espafut +2 no caladblog yet. Most of these were done with VV/GC/Apoc(or RR) atmas, the last 2 on the wyrm in ks99 were done on pld/nin Minuet IV and rabbit pie. Edited I was just screwing around this morning and started to do some tests. Is this the way to go aboot it?if so i'll continue
Quetzalcoatl.Volkom said: I was just screwing around this morning and started to do some tests. Is this the way to go aboot it?if so i'll continue What exactly are you trying to test? All you proved was your fSTR isn't capped. Also use Sekki, random TP tests are pointless.
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Wow, it's been a long time. Sorry I haven't continued my testing from when I created this thread. I haven't spent too much time on DRK lately. I didn't have my third atma back then so I really should get back to this. ><
It still seems like a good mix of STR, VIT and Attack is the best way to go. I really like Balinorix's gear set, but I don't think I would choose 7 VIT on the hands over 13 STR from Heafoc mitts. I really need to go out and see how attack changes the WS because I didn't notice a very big increase during my tests, or when I had minuet in parties. If it helps as much as he says it does, I might even opt to use Bomb Core over Bibiki Seashell. Throw in a Terrasoul ring and I think Balinorix has one of the best Torcleaver setups. Returner has a good set too, but I don't think I would use Moonshade earring over Brutals. Unless you plan on waiting until 175% to WS, I don't see how that will beat your combined DA rate with Brutals + Athelling, and even Pole Grip if you choose to use it. This is still one of my favorite weapon skills, so I'm glad others are upgrading the weapons and enjoying it too. Keep up the good work everyone! if you do the math, 1.0 from DA from brutal is 1/4.95 = approximately 20% increase to your damage when you DA. But that will happen about 5% of the time with brutal so 20% x 0.05 = 1%. An 1% overall increase in your WS damage on average.
Moonshade's +25 tp bonus on the other hand, is a 0.25/4.95 = approximately 5% increase to your damage on just about every single one of your WS. I see the confusion here tho, you probably didn't know 125% tp > 100% tp on WS that says damage based on TP. We know at 100% tp, torcleaver is 4.75 ftp, and at 200% tp, torcleaver is 5.75 ftp, that doesn't mean at 199% you are at 4.75 ftp. At 199% you will have (5.75-4.75) x 0.99 + 4.75 = 5.74 ftp. So you get the idea. Not to mention moonshade can have +4 attack on it too, making it the most powerful earring by far for this WS, single handly increase about 5.5% of your WS. You will actually start seeing reduced return when you get to the 200% tp range since going from 200% to 300% is going from 5.75 ftp to 6.5 ftp. So the increase is 25% less per tp. I think I would definitely use the +7 VIT gloves if I was a galka and pair bale sollerets +2 with it for the added str. Overloading str is definitely not the best thing to do with this WS, but most ppl do overestimate their ability to cap fstr and cratio. On my build I have heafoc solely for the reason to cap fstr since my set, before heafoc, had only 135 str, which will not cap you on anything EM or above. Attack on the other hand tho, is definitely a huge huge boost to your damage if it is not capped and 13 str gives a decent amount of attack as well. As I have said before, you will need to have multiple sets for this WS cuz when you are capped on fstr, adding more str adds absolutely nothing other than giving you some attack, and when you are capped on cratio, adding more attack adds absolutely nothing either. However, when you are capped on neither, those two will give you in general a decent increase in damage. VIT is always going to add to your damage, but since our selection on VIT is limited and often ranging from +2-+4, it is not the best idea to blindly add VIT for the increase when you can get greater increase from adding attack or str. if you don't have access to much vit gear to the already limited vit gear to drk. what atmas do you suggest using for high dmg ws?
VV RR Apoc should be the best unless I'm missing something.
Ragnarok.Returner said: Moonshade's +25 tp bonus on the other hand, is a 0.25/4.95 = approximately 5% increase to your damage on just about every single one of your WS. I see the confusion here tho, you probably didn't know 125% tp > 100% tp on WS that says damage based on TP. We know at 100% tp, torcleaver is 4.75 ftp, and at 200% tp, torcleaver is 5.75 ftp, that doesn't mean at 199% you are at 4.75 ftp. At 199% you will have (5.75-4.75) x 0.99 + 4.75 = 5.74 ftp. So you get the idea. I would really like to believe this, but is there any testing to prove it? Volkoms small test from a few posts up kind of disproves this in my opinion. I would be happy to agree if there was some solid evidence though. Quetzalcoatl.Trauma said: Ragnarok.Returner said: Moonshade's +25 tp bonus on the other hand, is a 0.25/4.95 = approximately 5% increase to your damage on just about every single one of your WS. I see the confusion here tho, you probably didn't know 125% tp > 100% tp on WS that says damage based on TP. We know at 100% tp, torcleaver is 4.75 ftp, and at 200% tp, torcleaver is 5.75 ftp, that doesn't mean at 199% you are at 4.75 ftp. At 199% you will have (5.75-4.75) x 0.99 + 4.75 = 5.74 ftp. So you get the idea. I would really like to believe this, but is there any testing to prove it? Volkoms small test from a few posts up kind of disproves this in my opinion. I would be happy to agree if there was some solid evidence though. http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Calculating_Weapon_Skill_Damage
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First of all, those samples are too small, pdif goes up and down so it is extremely hard to see a trend there.
The easiest to test, which you can do on your own as I believe ppl have done them. Is to do SATA Spiral hell at 200% tp and 299% tp. At 200% tp, ftp is 1.875, and 300%, ftp is 3.625. So at 299%, your damage should be close to the 300% ftp, which should be very obvious. I don't want to sound as I have tested it myself or anything, but this is pretty common knowledge that damage base on tp WS does this. Perhaps you think this WS is different from the other WS or you simply didn't know such thing exists. I will try to find solid evidence for you, but I think at this point you should try to find solid evidence to disproof it since you are raising a question on something most ppl have agreed on. Unless of course I am the only one here who thinks that.... brb, going to try to see if I can find some old tests on this. Actually this page.
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/FTP I am not sure if it is tested, but like I said, when most ppl believe in the same thing, what you need to do is to disproof it with a test of your own. Wow, that's really cool! Thanks a lot guys. I guess I was wrong then. At least now I know what augment I'm getting on that earring. :P I can't believe I had never heard of this before. xD I feel pretty stupid now.
 Said i would post numbers thought i had, seems i was doing it wrong. Those are some pretty strong numbers. Can you point out what's a Triple Attack, Double attack, TP value (Inc. TP bonus if you have it) and other factors? (Atk buffs, for example, and Atmas)
Glad to see torcleaver doing very well. Always been a fan of great-swords. Turns around the old relic stereotype. I've always meant to pick up drk but g-swords losing out to scythes always turned me off. I think I'll pick it back up when I get Serj back.
Despite our scuffle in the other thread, I've always respected you, Zicdeh. Just so ya know. Serj said: Glad to see torcleaver doing very well. Always been a fan of great-swords. Turns around the old relic stereotype. I've always meant to pick up drk but g-swords losing out to scythes always turned me off. I think I'll pick it back up when I get Serj back. Despite our scuffle in the other thread, I've always respected you, Zicdeh. Just so ya know. Wasn't really a scuffle, just two people with contradictory opinions. Thesis and Antithesis, which yields the synthesis. Personally, I've always been a Scythe fan, but that's only because ELV hold Greatswords so stupid, but they wield Scythes with style. It's double irritating, because that little ***from WotG handles a Greatsword pretty well.
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Odin.Zicdeh said: Personally, I've always been a Scythe fan, but that's only because ELV hold Greatswords so stupid, but they wield Scythes with style. It's double irritating, because that little ***from WotG handles a Greatsword pretty well. //load plasticsurgeon //race <anythingbutgalka> m/f Fixed. Imo, mithras and hume females perform Torcleaver(or g.strike) are snazzy ( .-.)~ Quetzalcoatl.Volkom said: I don't have Caladbolg yet but its close to being done, got all my lanterns and most gems done so i'm starting to decide how I should gear up for torcleaver. atm with current gear I have this is what I came up with. Currently working towards to +2 feet/legs, twilight mail, bale earring. Any suggestions on anything else I should get/add Atheling Mantle Inside Abby: x2 +7 VIT rings Outside Abby: Spiral, Pyrosoul or a +7 VIT (assuming losing Rajas during WS wont cost you an x-hit) Twilight Mail Edit: Ares probably better actually SE better release some nice pieces with lots more vit >.>
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Quetzalcoatl.Volkom said: SE better release some nice pieces with lots more vit >.> Pretty sure Ares Hands/Feet are going to end up being ideal for torcleaver when they get upgraded, hands are already pretty nice kinda, feet as well. Fenrir.Gradd said: Quetzalcoatl.Volkom said: SE better release some nice pieces with lots more vit >.> Pretty sure Ares Hands/Feet are going to end up being ideal for torcleaver when they get upgraded, hands are already pretty nice kinda, feet as well. I went 1/1 on Deimos's Gauntlets, but the Madame... Dropping Enlils and Macha's, every kill but not Deimos's... TH10 with the new boosted Rates is nice though. balinorix said: Said i would post numbers thought i had, seems i was doing it wrong. Don't think I'm doing much wrong either: Caladbolg (85) Bomb Core Twilight Helm Snow Gorget Brutal Earring Centaurus Earring Shadow Breastplate Alky's Spiral Ring Rajas Ring Forager's Mantle Snow Belt Bale Flanchard +1 Bale Sollerets +1 Food: Yellow Curry Bun Atma: vv rr apoc Status on WS: STR 91+134 VIT 81+57 ATK: 728 Psh my blu has more att than you!!!
Bahamut.Dasva said: Psh my blu has more att than you!!! Lakshmi.Seoha said: Bahamut.Dasva said: Psh my blu has more att than you!!! |
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