Shiva.Msthief said:
Proc rate of ODD is 30|40|50%, sorry thought that was common knowledge.
show me where it's not a flat 30% for all three.
Ukon Vs Maschu +2
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Ukon vs Maschu +2
show me where it's not a flat 30% for all three. Entourage said: Shiva.Msthief said: Proc rate of ODD is 30|40|50%, sorry thought that was common knowledge. show me where it's not a flat 30% for all three. Look for it you lazy ***. Testing was done on BG I believe. It's known to be 30/40/50.
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Bahamut.Serj said: Entourage said: Shiva.Msthief said: Proc rate of ODD is 30|40|50%, sorry thought that was common knowledge. http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Aftermath
BG is a pretty damn reliable source, if its there then its true.
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effort's overrated.
Phoenix.Gaiarorshack said: Lakshmi.Hiku said: tldr: would you rather do a 4k WS and regular melee/crit for 800-1000dmg, or would you settle for a 4k WS and melee for 200-400? these numbers are actually not far off furry's dbl dmg effect i saw 1150 and then 1170 dmg on tp swing BUT when did dbl damage of 200-400 become 800-1000 ? I was using very rough estimations, as my WAR is like level 50 :x your face is like level 50
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Cerberus.Fiasko said: Entourage said: Cerberus.Fiasko said: What is the proc rate of the ODD? Unless it is 15-20% I don't understand how it would be an increase of 15% to overall dmg. Also I assume the ODD cannot proc on WS which would further the argument that just the ODD wouldn't put it so far ahead. Also, the parse above isn't much to go by. There is no way the warriors were playing the same style when the Ukon did 6 WS compared to 2. The sample size is incredibly small also. Of course Ukon will come out on top, but the principle difference is the ODD and the delay. (which depending on the build would be the 4% (482/504= .956 or 4.4%) lower delay compared to the 2%DA or 3% crit rate) One would also have to see if you can maintain the 5 hit build with sword strap (with mashcu +2). I don't know if the 1.4% extra delay would allow you to keep the build without rose strap (4.4% - 3%). the delay is a null factor tbh... ODD does in fact make that big of difference... with Ukonvasara more than any other weapon (easy crit dmg/rate+ in tp sets / high base dmg / high double attack) I dont know the ODD rate off the top of my head (I have 3 emps what? lol)... 30%? at LEAST 15% That actually makes me incredibly happy and glad to hear (ODD rate), but I doubt in a game of marginal upgrades 4% increase in swings would be a null factor. Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Cerberus.Fiasko said: Entourage said: Cerberus.Fiasko said: What is the proc rate of the ODD? Unless it is 15-20% I don't understand how it would be an increase of 15% to overall dmg. Also I assume the ODD cannot proc on WS which would further the argument that just the ODD wouldn't put it so far ahead. Also, the parse above isn't much to go by. There is no way the warriors were playing the same style when the Ukon did 6 WS compared to 2. The sample size is incredibly small also. Of course Ukon will come out on top, but the principle difference is the ODD and the delay. (which depending on the build would be the 4% (482/504= .956 or 4.4%) lower delay compared to the 2%DA or 3% crit rate) One would also have to see if you can maintain the 5 hit build with sword strap (with mashcu +2). I don't know if the 1.4% extra delay would allow you to keep the build without rose strap (4.4% - 3%). the delay is a null factor tbh... ODD does in fact make that big of difference... with Ukonvasara more than any other weapon (easy crit dmg/rate+ in tp sets / high base dmg / high double attack) I dont know the ODD rate off the top of my head (I have 3 emps what? lol)... 30%? at LEAST 15% That actually makes me incredibly happy and glad to hear (ODD rate), but I doubt in a game of marginal upgrades 4% increase in swings would be a null factor. ODD is a myth on MNK ;_; off-hand hit only sucks. ***'s sake, I clearly need sleep. Totally forgot about that. Revised statement based on me actually thinking things through somewhat: afaik ODD does not proc on Retaliation, and the whole critrate/dmg thing doesn't actually affect the value of ODD. Thus, I'd theorize that Calabolg DRK is actually getting the most out of ODD, PLD might be up there too depending on how much TP you're getting from shield blocks. If it does proc on Retal then WAR would be close behind.
I need to actually spend time testing it, but I believe ODD can only proc once per attack round on mnk. It seems that no matter how many punches you do, only one is with your offhand and the rest are mainhand. There may be testing on it already, but that's what I've noticed.
Also, apparently when using hth, everyone suddenly becomes left handed. Who knew? Also need to test the crit rate bonus that Smite gives. Ugggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggh.
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definitely not NIN as they waste delay on their offhand just like MNK. Ukon reigns supreme with ODD. NIN only has a higher tp/ws split cause they don't have retaliation and thus do less damage.
I stand by my delay comment because Maschu is a 5-hit weapon and Ukon is a 6-hit... different styles = incomparable at that level. Yes you could compare them but there's much more to it than "Ukon attacks faster". gtfo do people really think anything out DDs WAR still... you may not realize, but that is what you're arguing. inb4 "NIN has better defense" ... cause that matters right? /sarcasm We're just talking about benefiting from ODD. If you swing less, you benefit less, and war doesn't swing that much because of retaliation/lower x-hit build.
I'm pretty sure ODD doesn't proc on retaliation. At least not that I've noticed from our Ukon war. oh you hit more times with your kannagi than i do with my Ukon? my ODD doing 400-800 dmg per hit (not counting af3 set proc) with yours doing how much? (assuming universal "you" as NIN). Double Attack / Triple Attack favoring Ukon? right right
as yes you're right about ODD not happening on retaliation... I was just mentioning that because of the random "it favors higher tp/ws split weapons" statement. This is the first time I've ever heard anyone even begin to say ODD favors dual wielders. Entourage said: oh you hit more times with your kannagi than i do with my Ukon? my ODD doing 400-800 dmg per hit with yours doing how much? (assuming universal "you" as NIN). Double Attack / Triple Attack favoring Ukon? right right Your ODD only hits for 400-800? Anyway, comparing it to drk, say. You build tp at the same speed (bar retaliation) and it's 6 hits vs 7 hits. No matter how you look at it, they're hitting more often, and therefore, benefiting from ODD more often. Same reason it benefits Almace/Kannagi more. You hit more during your tp phase and have a tp/ws split that favors tp. War is mainly doing damage through ws. He probably does hit more often, given Kannagi's lower delay. And the whole swinging with two weapons at a time thing. And DW reducing TP/hit.
Double Attack and Triple Attack favor high delay weapons LESS (iirc) because of a higher chance of TP overflow TP overflow. Unless you're purposely trying to get higher TP for stronger aftermath effects like you would using a Mythic, that is. added damage, you stupid? reg ODDs hitting for 800ish, crits hitting for 1600ish
tp overflow doesnt matter in this ODD argument, and it still favors two-handed weapons I'd say something about reading comprehension/braining being hard but I derped too, so I'll just say go back and read my second post again so that you're not arguing against points I already corrected myself on.
ODD benifits staff the most because its the only weapon that has no argument not to have constant 300% tp aftermath.
/trollface Entourage said: added damage, you stupid? reg ODDs hitting for 800ish, crits hitting for 1600ish Entourage said: oh you hit more times with your kannagi than i do with my Ukon? my ODD doing 400-800 dmg per hit (not counting af3 set proc) with yours doing how much? Uhhh, what? if it didn't derp out on non-two-hander jobs (being allowed to occur on offhand strikes instead of just the main hand), occasionally deals double damage would most certainly favor white damage jobs; regardless, the argument at hand with empyrean aftermath is somewhat pointless if you ask me
i'm unsure as to if maschu can support a five-hit without voracious violet or tactical mantle, but assuming it can, it would be a nice little niche for the weapon outside of abyssea, given the frequency of tp overflow from apocalypse atma inside otherwise, but even then, it would still hardly compare to ukonvasara for obvious reasons Odin.Sawtelle said: ODD benifits staff the most because its the only weapon that has no argument not to have constant 300% tp aftermath. /trollface
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yea this is true nightfyre... but then lolSerj continued spamming nonsense
"my ODD doing 400-800" means the added damage from ODD, I can see how you'd misunderstand but that doesn't make you any less of a tard for your witty comeback Entourage said: yea this is true nightfyre... but then lolSerj continued spamming nonsense are you referring to actualserj or lolserj they are in fact two separate people you know, the former of which i myself trust much more often than not to know what he's doing
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Dammit Ironguy! D:<
Ragnarok.Raenil said: Dammit Ironguy! D:< HE SPEAKS THE TRUTH! D:< Entourage said: yea this is true nightfyre... but then lolSerj continued spamming nonsense "my ODD doing 400-800" means the added damage from ODD, I can see how you'd misunderstand but that doesn't make you any less of a tard for your witty comeback Not my fault you can't comprehend basic english/logic. Bahamut.Serj.... this statement matters? lol
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