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why contradictingmath ?
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1245
By Phoenix.Gaiarorshack 2011-08-20 14:56:18
i'm a bit confused about some math in some of the threads because they simply... contradicts each others
http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/21651/nuevo-coselets-vs-zahaksmail/
in this thread its said that 5str and 5 dex outperform 2% DA
http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/19437/uthers-grip-vs-pole-grip/
in this thread 2%da beats 4str and 9ga skill
"Yeah its not even close, 2% DA is better than STR and skill. "
so how come 4 str 9 skil is no way close to 2%da, but 5str and dex beats 2% da
i know we are talking one str in difference but really ?
i've seen same kind of contradiction among blm thread also
1 int beats 0.5mab and then later on 3 mab beats 7 int.
i just doesn't make alot of sence on its own.
i know you can only really know with looking at the full pictures
but none (maybe 1) of these advices was giving in that way
By BorealisV2 2011-08-20 15:06:02
Cerberus.Vaness
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1515
By Cerberus.Vaness 2011-08-20 15:20:44
Pole grip do more DoT dmg (You will double attack more frequently blablabla)
Uther grip is direct dmg (or instant dmg? My english suck) mostly better for ws.
it like do 2x 230 dmg (lets say you hit for 230) VS hitting 1x for 240 dmg
It's what I think, I am a melee tard so feel free to prove me wrong.
Bahamut.Serj
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6179
By Bahamut.Serj 2011-08-20 15:24:22
Should be using a claymore grip anyway. Also, pole grip affects ws frequency, where as the body for ws does not.
[+]
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 996
By Asura.Kaisuko 2011-08-20 15:24:42
Zahak's has crit which is why it wins, otherwise I'd say double attack beats either the slight increase in str or attack.
Edit: And what Serj said.
Bahamut.Serj
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6179
By Bahamut.Serj 2011-08-20 15:26:54
Zahak's has crit which is why it wins, otherwise I'd say double attack beats either the slight increase in str or attack.
Edit: And what Serj said.
The body has crit rate too.
Carbuncle.Asymptotic
サーバ: Carbuncle
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Posts: 2659
By Carbuncle.Asymptotic 2011-08-20 15:30:23
As long as you're WSing in your haste gear, you're doing fine.
サーバ: Asura
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Posts: 996
By Asura.Kaisuko 2011-08-20 15:32:04
Nuevo? I didn't read the thread.
I assumed attack/double attack auggments; but crit/double attack I could see winning unless you need the attack (which in most cases you do, so that devalues it), but also like Borealis said, it's situational. xD
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2269
By Cerberus.Wolfshadow 2011-08-20 15:32:28
Because you can't switch grips without losing tp. ***'s situational, as is tradition, in that you're choosing what you're going to be both weaponskilling and tping in, obviously STR and Skill will not be helping you as much as the other 2 in terms of white damage, while the other 2 are enhancing both your weaponskill and white damage.
The body pieces are more about what is ideal for weaponskill, in nightfyre's calculations it called Zahak's as superior, and he usually knows his ***, so that would be your safe bet
Bahamut.Serj
サーバ: Bahamut
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Posts: 6179
By Bahamut.Serj 2011-08-20 15:34:12
Nuevo? I didn't read the thread.
I assumed attack/double attack auggments; but crit/double attack I could see winning unless you need the attack (which in most cases you do, so that devalues it), but also like Borealis said, it's situational. xD
DA also has diminishing returns, but str/dex doesn't do much for your ddex or fstr in abyssea.
On war with a 30% DA rate on ws, 2% DA isn't even a 1% increase.
Carbuncle.Asymptotic
サーバ: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2659
By Carbuncle.Asymptotic 2011-08-20 15:57:47
Nuevo? I didn't read the thread.
I assumed attack/double attack auggments; but crit/double attack I could see winning unless you need the attack (which in most cases you do, so that devalues it), but also like Borealis said, it's situational. xD
DA also has diminishing returns, but str/dex doesn't do much for your ddex or fstr in abyssea.
On war with a 30% DA rate on ws, 2% DA isn't even a 1% increase.
1.5% isn't it?
[+]
Bahamut.Serj
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6179
By Bahamut.Serj 2011-08-20 16:10:24
Carbuncle.Asymptotic said: »Nuevo? I didn't read the thread.
I assumed attack/double attack auggments; but crit/double attack I could see winning unless you need the attack (which in most cases you do, so that devalues it), but also like Borealis said, it's situational. xD
DA also has diminishing returns, but str/dex doesn't do much for your ddex or fstr in abyssea.
On war with a 30% DA rate on ws, 2% DA isn't even a 1% increase.
1.5% isn't it? Yea, down @ Asym. I derped.
Phoenix.Kirana
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2025
By Phoenix.Kirana 2011-08-20 16:14:43
Carbuncle.Asymptotic said: »Nuevo? I didn't read the thread.
I assumed attack/double attack auggments; but crit/double attack I could see winning unless you need the attack (which in most cases you do, so that devalues it), but also like Borealis said, it's situational. xD
DA also has diminishing returns, but str/dex doesn't do much for your ddex or fstr in abyssea.
On war with a 30% DA rate on ws, 2% DA isn't even a 1% increase.
1.5% isn't it?
30/32 = .9375 2% more DA applied to a 70% existing swings that it can still proc on means 2 * .7 = 1.4%
Bahamut.Serj
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6179
By Bahamut.Serj 2011-08-20 16:18:43
Should check Motenten's spreadsheet to see the difference between 2% DA and 5str/dex in abyssea berserk down with Ukko's. Maybe do that in a bit.
Carbuncle.Asymptotic
サーバ: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2659
By Carbuncle.Asymptotic 2011-08-20 16:19:58
Carbuncle.Asymptotic said: »Nuevo? I didn't read the thread.
I assumed attack/double attack auggments; but crit/double attack I could see winning unless you need the attack (which in most cases you do, so that devalues it), but also like Borealis said, it's situational. xD
DA also has diminishing returns, but str/dex doesn't do much for your ddex or fstr in abyssea.
On war with a 30% DA rate on ws, 2% DA isn't even a 1% increase.
1.5% isn't it?
30/32 = .9375 2% more DA applied to a 70% existing swings that it can still proc on means 2 * .7 = 1.4%
doesn't really make sense from a computational standpoint that way, i don't think.
i could be wrong but my combinatorial knowledge leads me to calcualte it this way
0% double attack is 100 attacks in one unit time
30% double attack is 130 attacks in one unit time
adding 2% double attack is 132 attacks in one unit time
so (132-130)/100 = 1.53%
1.4% would assume the initial 30% double attack has some sort of programming priority, which it shouldn't, the %double attack should only alter the threshhold at which DA occurs.
Bahamut.Serj
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6179
By Bahamut.Serj 2011-08-20 16:23:42
Wouldn't it be 132/130 then, to figure out the difference? What I did before my edit.
Close enough to my original value .984~
Also, yours goes to (2)/100, no?
Carbuncle.Asymptotic
サーバ: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2659
By Carbuncle.Asymptotic 2011-08-20 16:25:53
Wouldn't it be 132/130 then, to figure out the difference? What I did before my edit.
Close enough to my original value .984~
132/130 = 1.0153
the whole part (1) represents the 130 initial attacks, in this case.
so you still get 1.53% lol (0.0153 is the increase)
Carbuncle.Asymptotic
サーバ: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2659
By Carbuncle.Asymptotic 2011-08-20 16:26:31
Wouldn't it be 132/130 then, to figure out the difference? What I did before my edit.
Close enough to my original value .984~
Also, yours goes to (2)/100, no?
sorry it should have said (132-130)/130 * 100
Phoenix.Kirana
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2025
By Phoenix.Kirana 2011-08-20 16:26:35
Carbuncle.Asymptotic said: »Carbuncle.Asymptotic said: »Nuevo? I didn't read the thread.
I assumed attack/double attack auggments; but crit/double attack I could see winning unless you need the attack (which in most cases you do, so that devalues it), but also like Borealis said, it's situational. xD
DA also has diminishing returns, but str/dex doesn't do much for your ddex or fstr in abyssea.
On war with a 30% DA rate on ws, 2% DA isn't even a 1% increase.
1.5% isn't it?
30/32 = .9375 2% more DA applied to a 70% existing swings that it can still proc on means 2 * .7 = 1.4%
doesn't really make sense from a computational standpoint that way, i don't think.
i could be wrong but my combinatorial knowledge leads me to calcualte it this way
0% double attack is 100 attacks in one unit time
30% double attack is 130 attacks in one unit time
adding 2% double attack is 132 attacks in one unit time
so (132-130)/100 = 1.53%
1.4% would assume the initial 30% double attack has some sort of programming priority, which it shouldn't, the %double attack should only alter the threshhold at which DA occurs. (132-130)/100 = 0.02 = 2%. I think you are using the wrong formula. nvm you noticed it.
Bahamut.Serj
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6179
By Bahamut.Serj 2011-08-20 16:27:49
Carbuncle.Asymptotic said: »Wouldn't it be 132/130 then, to figure out the difference? What I did before my edit.
Close enough to my original value .984~
132/130 = 1.0153
the whole part (1) represents the 130 initial attacks, in this case.
so you still get 1.53% lol (0.0153 is the increase)
....I had it right, just didn't do it right. LEAVE ME ALONE.
Carbuncle.Asymptotic
サーバ: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2659
By Carbuncle.Asymptotic 2011-08-20 16:29:05
Carbuncle.Asymptotic said: »Wouldn't it be 132/130 then, to figure out the difference? What I did before my edit.
Close enough to my original value .984~
132/130 = 1.0153
the whole part (1) represents the 130 initial attacks, in this case.
so you still get 1.53% lol (0.0153 is the increase)
....I had it right, just didn't do it right. LEAVE ME ALONE.
i'll pewpew tornadoes in your face
Bahamut.Serj
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6179
By Bahamut.Serj 2011-08-20 16:30:25
Carbuncle.Asymptotic said: »Carbuncle.Asymptotic said: »Wouldn't it be 132/130 then, to figure out the difference? What I did before my edit.
Close enough to my original value .984~
132/130 = 1.0153
the whole part (1) represents the 130 initial attacks, in this case.
so you still get 1.53% lol (0.0153 is the increase)
....I had it right, just didn't do it right. LEAVE ME ALONE.
i'll pewpew tornadoes in your face
Dyslexia makes math a *** ;_;
And I'll smite your anus.
Leviathan.Draylo
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
By Leviathan.Draylo 2011-08-20 16:31:19
You will find that a lot of people that give answers through forums like these have no *** idea what they are talking about. A lot just like to parrot the people who actually know what they are talking about so it gives them some significance or cool points.
[+]
Phoenix.Kirana
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2025
By Phoenix.Kirana 2011-08-20 16:32:00
I still don't think you are using the right formula...for instance if you calculate the change from 98% to 100% DA, you get (2)/198*100=1.01%. It should be much lower than this.
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 825
By Fenrir.Skadoosh 2011-08-20 16:34:30
[+]
Bahamut.Serj
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6179
By Bahamut.Serj 2011-08-20 16:36:26
You will find that a lot of people that give answers through forums like these have no *** idea what they are talking about. A lot just like to parrot the people who actually know what they are talking about so it gives them some significance or cool points.
Thanks for your helpful post correcting us on our DA % increases, Sean. >=/
I still don't think you are using the right formula...for instance if you calculate the change from 98% to 100% DA, you get (2)/198*100=1.01%. It should be much lower than this.
You don't calculate it from under 100 as DA adds on to your attacks. 0 DA to 1 is a 1% increase, everything else is lower.
101/100 = 1%. 102/101 = .99%. So on and so forth.
Fenrir.Niniann
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2871
By Fenrir.Niniann 2011-08-20 16:45:34
Should check Motenten's spreadsheet to see the difference between 2% DA and 5str/dex in abyssea berserk down with Ukko's. Maybe do that in a bit.
He has not updated his spreadsheets recently. I don't believe his crit damage/critrate has been updated. You need to fix both in the TP page and WS page for it to be accurate. :<
Bahamut.Serj
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6179
By Bahamut.Serj 2011-08-20 16:47:28
Should check Motenten's spreadsheet to see the difference between 2% DA and 5str/dex in abyssea berserk down with Ukko's. Maybe do that in a bit.
He has not updated his spreadsheets recently. I don't believe his crit damage/critrate has been updated. You need to fix both in the TP page and WS page for it to be accurate. :<
That.... would be good to know lol. I really need to just get excel and download his spreadsheets instead of using google for it.
Phoenix.Kirana
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2025
By Phoenix.Kirana 2011-08-20 16:47:46
Think about it this way. If you already happen to have 50% DA which is immutable, then you WONT be DAing 50% of the time. Any additional DA you add will only possibly be helpful on those 50% of attacks that you wouldn't already be DAing.
0% to 1% is a 1% increase.
50% to 51% is a 0.5% increase
100% to 101% is a 0% increase.
i'm a bit confused about some math in some of the threads because they simply... contradicts each others
http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/21651/nuevo-coselets-vs-zahaksmail/
in this thread its said that 5str and 5 dex outperform 2% DA
http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/19437/uthers-grip-vs-pole-grip/
in this thread 2%da beats 4str and 9ga skill
"Yeah its not even close, 2% DA is better than STR and skill. "
so how come 4 str 9 skil is no way close to 2%da, but 5str and dex beats 2% da
i know we are talking one str in difference but really ?
i've seen same kind of contradiction among blm thread also
1 int beats 0.5mab and then later on 3 mab beats 7 int.
i just doesn't make alot of sence on its own.
i know you can only really know with looking at the full pictures
but none (maybe 1) of these advices was giving in that way
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