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why contradictingmath ?
 Bismarck.Altar
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1676
By Bismarck.Altar 2011-08-20 16:51:20
Should check Motenten's spreadsheet to see the difference between 2% DA and 5str/dex in abyssea berserk down with Ukko's. Maybe do that in a bit.
He has not updated his spreadsheets recently. I don't believe his crit damage/critrate has been updated. You need to fix both in the TP page and WS page for it to be accurate. :< War was updated just yesterday x.x
But before that it had definitely been updated post-crit damage update.
Cerberus.Wolfshadow said: »Because you can't switch grips without losing tp. ***'s situational, as is tradition, in that you're choosing what you're going to be both weaponskilling and tping in, obviously STR and Skill will not be helping you as much as the other 2 in terms of white damage, while the other 2 are enhancing both your weaponskill and white damage.
The body pieces are more about what is ideal for weaponskill, in nightfyre's calculations it called Zahak's as superior, and he usually knows his ***, so that would be your safe bet
And this ^ is the right answer.
 Fenrir.Niniann
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2871
By Fenrir.Niniann 2011-08-20 17:00:24
War was updated just yesterday x.x
But before that it had definitely been updated post-crit damage update.
Wow, you're right. :o
Bahamut.Serj
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6179
By Bahamut.Serj 2011-08-20 17:02:00
Think about it this way. If you already happen to have 50% DA which is immutable, then you WONT be DAing 50% of the time. Any additional DA you add will only possibly be helpful on those 50% of attacks that you wouldn't already be DAing.
0% to 1% is a 1% increase.
50% to 51% is a 0.5% increase
100% to 101% is a 0% increase.
That's how often the additional DA will proc. Not the increase to overall attacks.
Phoenix.Kirana
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2025
By Phoenix.Kirana 2011-08-20 17:08:16
Think about it this way. If you already happen to have 50% DA which is immutable, then you WONT be DAing 50% of the time. Any additional DA you add will only possibly be helpful on those 50% of attacks that you wouldn't already be DAing.
0% to 1% is a 1% increase.
50% to 51% is a 0.5% increase
100% to 101% is a 0% increase.
That's how often the additional DA will proc. Not the increase to overall attacks. "how often DA will proc" is the actual percentage. 1% at any level is a 1% increase to proc rate (unless capped). What I am pointing out is the increase to DPS. This structure coincides with the "returns from additional haste vs. DA" graph that was floating around a while ago.
edit: 
Actually now that I look at the graph, it's not decreasing nearly as fast as I thought it should.
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 825
By Fenrir.Skadoosh 2011-08-20 17:25:25
Thank you. /vomits at all this "BUT... % INCREASE..."
Bahamut.Serj
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6179
By Bahamut.Serj 2011-08-20 17:34:13
Think about it this way. If you already happen to have 50% DA which is immutable, then you WONT be DAing 50% of the time. Any additional DA you add will only possibly be helpful on those 50% of attacks that you wouldn't already be DAing.
0% to 1% is a 1% increase.
50% to 51% is a 0.5% increase
100% to 101% is a 0% increase.
That's how often the additional DA will proc. Not the increase to overall attacks. "how often DA will proc" is the actual percentage. 1% at any level is a 1% increase to proc rate (unless capped). What I am pointing out is the increase to DPS. This structure coincides with the "returns from additional haste vs. DA" graph that was floating around a while ago.
edit:
Actually now that I look at the graph, it's not decreasing nearly as fast as I thought it should.
That graph is confirming what Asym and I are saying...
Carbuncle.Asymptotic
サーバ: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2659
By Carbuncle.Asymptotic 2011-08-20 17:38:11
Which makes me feel better, because I was just reasoning it out lol.
I'm a math major, but I don't really know FFXI math :)
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1901
By Odin.Hitoseijuro 2011-08-20 17:56:29
Actually now that I look at the graph, it's not decreasing nearly as fast as I thought it should. Thats because after 50% DA, each 1% decreases less than it did before almost by half of what it was decreasing from 1-50. Meaning the total of decrease from its initial 1% start to 50% for each 1% DA has decreased its worth of .033% while from 50% to 100% the decrease was .017%.
So at the end of the spectrum ie 100%, 1% DA is giving you half the increase that it was when it was fresh at going from 0 to 1%. Which is why you got 2% at 100% giving you roughly the same amount as 1% at the start.
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2011-08-20 18:00:14
I'm assuming a bunch of people already said "because we don't TP in WS bodies".
Also wow, didn't know Motenten was updating spreadsheets again.
Does the peanut gallery have anything useful to contribute or are you fishing for cool kid points?
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2269
By Cerberus.Wolfshadow 2011-08-20 18:02:32
I'm assuming a bunch of people already said "because we don't TP in WS bodies".
Also wow, didn't know Motenten was updating spreadsheets again.
Does the peanut gallery have anything useful to contribute or are you fishing for cool kid points?We're all out for the day. Sorry, check again in around 6 hours
Ramuh.Austar
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10457
By Ramuh.Austar 2011-08-20 18:05:39
Cerberus.Wolfshadow said: »I'm assuming a bunch of people already said "because we don't TP in WS bodies".
Also wow, didn't know Motenten was updating spreadsheets again.
Does the peanut gallery have anything useful to contribute or are you fishing for cool kid points?We're all out for the day. Sorry, check again in around 6 hours ; ;
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 225
By Odin.Hevans 2011-08-20 18:09:07
cool kids don't fish for points. they bot.
[+]
Sylph.Kiaru
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 681
By Sylph.Kiaru 2011-08-20 18:12:27
Sad that I still see wars tping/wsing in af1 boots past level 55.
 Ragnarok.Hevans
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15273
By Ragnarok.Hevans 2011-08-20 18:15:05
Sad that I still see wars tping/wsing in af1 boots past level 55.
but the ruby slippers are so pretty!
Ramuh.Austar
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10457
By Ramuh.Austar 2011-08-20 18:15:14
Sad that I still see wars tping/wsing in af1 boots past level 55. Because there totally is a reason that 1-2 acc would beat that.
[+]
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 825
By Fenrir.Skadoosh 2011-08-20 18:21:55
Does the peanut gallery have anything useful to contribute or are you fishing for cool kid points?
/doze
Phoenix.Kirana
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2025
By Phoenix.Kirana 2011-08-20 18:44:31
I'm probably wrong then, I'll believe you.
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1925
By Odin.Sawtelle 2011-08-20 19:24:57
HOW DOES I MINE FOR COOL KID POINTS!?!
Ramuh.Austar
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10457
By Ramuh.Austar 2011-08-20 19:27:31
HOW DOES I MINE FOR COOL KID POINTS!?! We hand them out usually as soon as our [+] count resets. So stick around, be cool, and talk legit math about haste.
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4554
By Bahamut.Raenryong 2011-08-20 19:40:55
Sad that I still see wars tping/wsing in af1 boots past level 55. Because there totally is a reason that 1-2 acc would beat that.
2acc would if you were using the full accuracy%!!
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 339
By Asura.Mekaider 2011-08-20 20:03:53
So, just to clarify as this has caught my interest, which is right?
Carbuncle.Asymptotic
サーバ: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2659
By Carbuncle.Asymptotic 2011-08-20 20:05:03
So, just to clarify as this has caught my interest, which is right?
What do you mean which?
Edit: Thread has gone so many places, I just don't know.
Phoenix.Kirana
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2025
By Phoenix.Kirana 2011-08-20 20:05:51
So, just to clarify as this has caught my interest, which is right? About DA diminishing returns? I think I was wrong, by looking at that old graph.
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 339
By Asura.Mekaider 2011-08-20 20:06:48
Not the diminishing returns part but the actual formulae and stuff, would be nice to know
Ramuh.Austar
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10457
By Ramuh.Austar 2011-08-20 20:09:54
Not the diminishing returns part but the actual formulae and stuff, would be nice to know Haste is formula I think is something like:
(Added haste/total haste) * 100
So if you have 41% haste from gear and spell, and you add 10 more from samba:
(10/51)*100 = 19.61% increase.
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 339
By Asura.Mekaider 2011-08-20 20:11:18
Ah, cool, thanks. I already knew all the stuff about how DA worked just not the formula and never really knew of the haste formula i just know the caps and hit them where achievable.
Thanks ^^
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2011-08-20 20:11:31
(oldhaste-newhaste)/(100-newhaste), where haste values are expressed in whole numbers. If you use decimals, change 100 to 1.
DA is newDA/oldDA
Ramuh.Austar
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10457
By Ramuh.Austar 2011-08-20 20:12:51
(oldhaste-newhaste)/(100-newhaste), where haste values are expressed in whole numbers. If you use decimals, change 100 to 1.
DA is newDA/oldDA The formula I use for haste works pretty much the same, doesn't it?
Carbuncle.Asymptotic
サーバ: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2659
By Carbuncle.Asymptotic 2011-08-20 20:12:52
Not the diminishing returns part but the actual formulae and stuff, would be nice to know
To get the % increase from adding X% double attack use the following forumla:
X/(100+DA_i)*100 for 0 <= DA_i <= 100
where DA_i is the amount of DA you had before adding X.
So for example:
20% Double Attack
What do i get by adding 3%?
3/120 *100 = 2.5% increase.
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2011-08-20 20:14:35
(oldhaste-newhaste)/(100-newhaste), where haste values are expressed in whole numbers. If you use decimals, change 100 to 1.
DA is newDA/oldDA The formula I use for haste works pretty much the same, doesn't it? Yeah, your post wasn't up when I opened the thread. Yours is the exact same formula, just condensed a bit.
i'm a bit confused about some math in some of the threads because they simply... contradicts each others
http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/21651/nuevo-coselets-vs-zahaksmail/
in this thread its said that 5str and 5 dex outperform 2% DA
http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/19437/uthers-grip-vs-pole-grip/
in this thread 2%da beats 4str and 9ga skill
"Yeah its not even close, 2% DA is better than STR and skill. "
so how come 4 str 9 skil is no way close to 2%da, but 5str and dex beats 2% da
i know we are talking one str in difference but really ?
i've seen same kind of contradiction among blm thread also
1 int beats 0.5mab and then later on 3 mab beats 7 int.
i just doesn't make alot of sence on its own.
i know you can only really know with looking at the full pictures
but none (maybe 1) of these advices was giving in that way
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