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Tachi: Shoha
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2012-12-04 16:18:18
I don't understand how that's funny, I never said 20 WS were considered a "Long fight"...I said the longer the fight the more chances DA has to proc and the higher your DA helps that. More spike from DA procs = higher average damage. And his paragraph pretty much did the math for you dude. Atheling > Unkai don't have to play the job to know how to do math. Let's not do the "duration of fight affects multiattack value" argument again, it was dumb when Kinetix did it and it's dumb now.
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 355
By Odin.Zelphes 2012-12-04 16:28:13
They math out really close overall, but yes, unkai for fudo, and i use it in my regain tp set for the zanshin, though i never have bothered to look up how much is on it... Anyone bothered to math out the best setup for regain?
Checking stats, Unkai Sugemino has 5% Zanshin, which is approx 1.25~1% zanhasso. Since multi-hit takes pri over zanshin it's safe to say atheling beats it for regain build.
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 430
By Odin.Registry 2012-12-04 16:38:03
I don't understand how that's funny, I never said 20 WS were considered a "Long fight"...I said the longer the fight the more chances DA has to proc and the higher your DA helps that. More spike from DA procs = higher average damage. And his paragraph pretty much did the math for you dude. Atheling > Unkai don't have to play the job to know how to do math. Let's not do the "duration of fight affects multiattack value" argument again, it was dumb when Kinetix did it and it's dumb now.
I think (could be totally wrong) Icemn's just trying to say that a parse can show an incorrect result.
 Ramuh.Austar
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10457
By Ramuh.Austar 2012-12-04 16:40:15
I don't understand how that's funny, I never said 20 WS were considered a "Long fight"...I said the longer the fight the more chances DA has to proc and the higher your DA helps that. More spike from DA procs = higher average damage. And his paragraph pretty much did the math for you dude. Atheling > Unkai don't have to play the job to know how to do math. Let's not do the "duration of fight affects multiattack value" argument again, it was dumb when Kinetix did it and it's dumb now.
I think (could be totally wrong) Icemn's just trying to say that a parse can show an incorrect result. Then he has a terrible way of saying it.
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 430
By Odin.Registry 2012-12-04 16:42:35
Not in that specific quote, I guess.
Pretty sure he/she said something about that before I started going on about averages and opinions and ***.
 Phoenix.Sehachan
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13352
By Phoenix.Sehachan 2012-12-04 16:51:13
Actually from what I read he just repeated many times that DA procs more often on longer fights, thus making Atheling better for long fights.
Hidden effect: enhances endurance.
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 430
By Odin.Registry 2012-12-04 16:53:21
Yea, I just looked back. -_-;
Was Mcclane who said what I thought Icemn did on the end of page 35.
Oh well, I tried.
Phoenix.Icemn
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 565
By Phoenix.Icemn 2012-12-04 17:07:51
Um...I actually did say that the longer the fight goes on the higher the average would be due to it proccing more often..lol
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19393
By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-12-04 17:08:15
That isn't how averages work
Phoenix.Icemn
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 565
By Phoenix.Icemn 2012-12-04 17:10:29
It is on a parse? Where higher spike = raising average?
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19393
By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-12-04 17:13:15
You don't raise an average by adding spike damage, spike damage is already accounted for in the average. That's why it's called a bloody average. It's the median of all datapoints, a measure of tendency, it won't change until you increase or decrease possible spike or low point damage through gear additions/subtractions.
The only thing that'd actually do what you're suggesting is Saber Dance, and that's in the opposite direction.
Phoenix.Icemn
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 565
By Phoenix.Icemn 2012-12-04 17:18:25
I'm talking about the category when you run KParser that says "Average" which, you know, goes up more if your WS spikes due to double attack.
Ramuh.Austar
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10457
By Ramuh.Austar 2012-12-04 17:19:21
[+]
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19393
By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-12-04 17:19:34
kparser is calculating the average of its recorded values, not the true mathematical average of the weaponskill that's actual useful in gear comparison (unless you're using a parse with 5,000~ samples, that should cover any possible pDIF randomization, or at least get close). how you're able to make that mistake is beyond me.
Phoenix.Sehachan
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13352
By Phoenix.Sehachan 2012-12-04 17:19:48
Ah well, now everything is better.
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 430
By Odin.Registry 2012-12-04 17:22:50
Parses can be (and usually are) incorrect if you're looking for actual values to compare your gear with.
How do people not get this yet?
***, only thing I use a parse for now is to say "hahaha, you're doing less damage than me."
Granted, it's usually me being laughed at. *** DRKs. Q_Q
[+]
Phoenix.Icemn
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 565
By Phoenix.Icemn 2012-12-04 17:23:39
I didn't say I was talking about the true average, I was just trying to make the point that the longer the fight goes the higher the average was since he was talking about his Parse average. My mistake, my wording was bad.
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2012-12-04 18:06:23
I didn't say I was talking about the true average, I was just trying to make the point that the longer the fight goes the higher the average was since he was talking about his Parse average. My mistake, my wording was bad. That's still incorrect because it disregards the possibility of starting out above the average (getting more procs in a given fight than the stated rate would suggest you might). Your results will converge over time per the law of large numbers, but how it starts out is anyone's guess given that procs are random (well, pseudorandom). That's why we don't consider fight duration in these scenarios.
[+]
Phoenix.Icemn
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 565
By Phoenix.Icemn 2012-12-04 18:13:48
I see, makes sense. Well, thank you for informing me about my mistake I'll make sure to keep that in mind for next time.
Phoenix.Icemn
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 565
By Phoenix.Icemn 2012-12-11 23:15:53
So I looked at the spreadsheet people use to math out the different gear sets and just ended up confused by it all. Can someone math out which would be better: Pyrosoul + Rajas or Pyrosoul + Sljor Ring for Shoha?
Cerberus.Taint
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1514
By Cerberus.Taint 2012-12-12 08:16:46
So I looked at the spreadsheet people use to math out the different gear sets and just ended up confused by it all. Can someone math out which would be better: Pyrosoul + Rajas or Pyrosoul + Sljor Ring for Shoha?
Pyrosoul + Pyrosoul
Phoenix.Icemn
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 565
By Phoenix.Icemn 2012-12-13 02:44:03
I can't afford to buy a second one atm. lol
Asura.Delos
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 38
By Asura.Delos 2012-12-31 14:43:03
Incoming possible necro!
Looking for optimal sets (tp and ws) excluding NNI gear (time constraints atm).
Gil isn't a issue but I can't find sets excluding them items (work in progress)
Edit: see time thing lol. Weapon is 90 masa
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9265
By Odin.Eikechi 2012-12-31 14:45:24
Incoming possible necro!
Looking for optimal sets (tp and ws) excluding NNI gear (time constraints atm).
Gil isn't a issue but I can't find sets excluding them items (work in progress)
Sam gear thread.... you obviously hit the sam sub section since this is an 18 day bump.
Asura.Delos
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 38
By Asura.Delos 2012-12-31 14:49:31
Incoming possible necro!
Looking for optimal sets (tp and ws) excluding NNI gear (time constraints atm).
Gil isn't a issue but I can't find sets excluding them items (work in progress)
Sam gear thread.... you obviously hit the sam sub section since this is an 18 day bump.
As you can tell from my post count (it's not a lot) want sure. I've looked and and cannot find any sets excluding those pieces
Bismarck.Llewelyn
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1029
By Bismarck.Llewelyn 2012-12-31 15:27:22
Here ya go~
I'll assume you know what adjustments to make in your TP set once you obtain Phorcys head since you can see the same set posted 100 times over in the "sam gear lv 99" thread. ( '-')
Valefor.Sehachan
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2012-12-31 15:28:55
No salvage?
Bismarck.Llewelyn
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1029
By Bismarck.Llewelyn 2012-12-31 15:29:30
They only asked to exclude NNI. Didn't mention Salvage. :x
Asura.Delos
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 38
By Asura.Delos 2012-12-31 15:30:29
Bismarck.Llewelyn said: »Here ya go~
I'll assume you know what adjustments to make in your TP set once you obtain Phorcys head since you can see the same set posted 100 times over in the "sam gear lv 99" thread. ( '-')
Appreciate it.
I've seen the "standard" tp ws set already I just don't have a lot of time for NNI yet (c'mon march, ill get back my 2-4hr play time again)
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9265
By Odin.Eikechi 2012-12-31 16:05:00
No, what I meant, was if it wasn't in that thread, to post IN that thread since you were asking for TP sets as well lol
Doing 2-3k Outside abbysea and 4-5k inside, Outside im testing inside Dynamis...
Current TP set.
And WS.
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