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SOPA and PIPA
Caitsith.Mahayaya
サーバ: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3341
By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2012-01-20 13:02:52
The irony of all this Hollywood vs. Internet and Silicon Valley deal is that most of Hollywood started as an illicit business. People got tired of paying Edison patents so they fled from New York to Hollywood.
Hollywood is now the Edison of the past, trying to enforce their rule over the Internet(Hollywood of the past).
Looks like karma to me.
Lakshmi.Flavin
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2012-01-20 13:04:08
Ragnarok.Yathatguy said: »Fenrir.Bellalunaa said: »http://boycott-hollywood.org/ Join the rest of the world to boycott Hollywood. We need to protect ourselves and show our support for all the freedoms we currently have (including the use of this site; many thanks to the team who make it possible). Ummm why boycott Hollywood? You do know that you play a game...a game made by the largest profiting section of the media industry right? It needs to be fine tuned by OUR representatives not by Hollywood. I'd have to agree here. Hollywood holds no interests in the well being of it's consumers or people in general. They will always seek out legislation that are within their interests and benefits. The key is us making sure those in office are truly representing us rather than their pockets and the lobbyists that filled em up with coin. Businesses are about making profit. I bet you there are companies that oppose SOPA/PIPA and don't care about your "well being" either as it was about keeping their doors open and their pockets full. Do you honestly think the people who run facebook care about you as they sell your personal information to the highest bidders and make billions off of you as their product?
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Quetzalcoatl.Xueye
サーバ: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6386
By Quetzalcoatl.Xueye 2012-01-20 13:04:21
Caitsith.Mahayaya said: »The irony of all this Hollywood vs. Internet and Silicon Valley deal is that most of Hollywood started as an illicit business. People got tired of paying Edison patents so they fled from New York to Hollywood.
Hollywood is now the Edison of the past, trying to enforce their rule over the Internet(Hollywood of the past).
Looks like karma to me.
Just curious, but what is the answer? Independent groups supporting artists, not RIAA and such? Groups that focus on digital distribution?
By Artemicion 2012-01-20 13:07:51
Ragnarok.Yathatguy said: »Fenrir.Bellalunaa said: »http://boycott-hollywood.org/ Join the rest of the world to boycott Hollywood. We need to protect ourselves and show our support for all the freedoms we currently have (including the use of this site; many thanks to the team who make it possible). Ummm why boycott Hollywood? You do know that you play a game...a game made by the largest profiting section of the media industry right? It needs to be fine tuned by OUR representatives not by Hollywood. I'd have to agree here. Hollywood holds no interests in the well being of it's consumers or people in general. They will always seek out legislation that are within their interests and benefits. The key is us making sure those in office are truly representing us rather than their pockets and the lobbyists that filled em up with coin. Businesses are about making profit. I bet you there are companies that oppose SOPA/PIPA and don't care about your "well being" either as it was about keeping their doors open and their pockets full. Do you honestly think the people who run facebook care about you as they sell your personal information to the highest bidders and make billions off of you as their product?
I wouldn't know since I don't use facebook, but it would be more wise to leave representation to those in politics and boycott to those that would vote against your interests at large, or enact in business ethics that alienate your privacy or otherwise.
Lakshmi.Flavin
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2012-01-20 13:29:03
Ragnarok.Yathatguy said: »Fenrir.Bellalunaa said: »http://boycott-hollywood.org/ Join the rest of the world to boycott Hollywood. We need to protect ourselves and show our support for all the freedoms we currently have (including the use of this site; many thanks to the team who make it possible). Ummm why boycott Hollywood? You do know that you play a game...a game made by the largest profiting section of the media industry right? It needs to be fine tuned by OUR representatives not by Hollywood. I'd have to agree here. Hollywood holds no interests in the well being of it's consumers or people in general. They will always seek out legislation that are within their interests and benefits. The key is us making sure those in office are truly representing us rather than their pockets and the lobbyists that filled em up with coin. Businesses are about making profit. I bet you there are companies that oppose SOPA/PIPA and don't care about your "well being" either as it was about keeping their doors open and their pockets full. Do you honestly think the people who run facebook care about you as they sell your personal information to the highest bidders and make billions off of you as their product? I wouldn't know since I don't use facebook, but it would be more wise to leave representation to those in politics and boycott to those that would vote against your interests at large, or enact in business ethics that alienate your privacy or otherwise. Facebook is just one example. Just because a business syncs up with one of your interests doesn't mean their doing that for a noble cause. It's most likely for the same cause that the other the other one that doesn't sync up with your current interest. Keeping their wallets fat.
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サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 374
By Ragnarok.Shadowknoll 2012-01-20 13:32:21
Quetzalcoatl.Xueye said: »Caitsith.Mahayaya said: »The irony of all this Hollywood vs. Internet and Silicon Valley deal is that most of Hollywood started as an illicit business. People got tired of paying Edison patents so they fled from New York to Hollywood.
Hollywood is now the Edison of the past, trying to enforce their rule over the Internet(Hollywood of the past).
Looks like karma to me.
Just curious, but what is the answer? Independent groups supporting artists, not RIAA and such? Groups that focus on digital distribution? it's to starve them into submitting most likely like Go Daddy saw. that or to starve them and make way for a new company to grow and push them out. but I doubt that will happen.
Asura.Jadecc
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 221
By Asura.Jadecc 2012-01-20 14:34:34
Theres a new bill out to compromise PIPA and SOPA, called
OPEN: Online Protection & ENforcement of Digital Trade Act
you can check it out and suggest changes as well at
http://www.keepthewebopen.com
it still seems the huge multimedia companies will have the power to sue any website infringing on their copywrite, except now instead of pretending to stop piracy its pretending to be a free and open internet
By Artemicion 2012-01-20 14:41:40
Ragnarok.Yathatguy said: »Fenrir.Bellalunaa said: »http://boycott-hollywood.org/ Join the rest of the world to boycott Hollywood. We need to protect ourselves and show our support for all the freedoms we currently have (including the use of this site; many thanks to the team who make it possible). Ummm why boycott Hollywood? You do know that you play a game...a game made by the largest profiting section of the media industry right? It needs to be fine tuned by OUR representatives not by Hollywood. I'd have to agree here. Hollywood holds no interests in the well being of it's consumers or people in general. They will always seek out legislation that are within their interests and benefits. The key is us making sure those in office are truly representing us rather than their pockets and the lobbyists that filled em up with coin. Businesses are about making profit. I bet you there are companies that oppose SOPA/PIPA and don't care about your "well being" either as it was about keeping their doors open and their pockets full. Do you honestly think the people who run facebook care about you as they sell your personal information to the highest bidders and make billions off of you as their product? I wouldn't know since I don't use facebook, but it would be more wise to leave representation to those in politics and boycott to those that would vote against your interests at large, or enact in business ethics that alienate your privacy or otherwise. Facebook is just one example. Just because a business syncs up with one of your interests doesn't mean their doing that for a noble cause. It's most likely for the same cause that the other the other one that doesn't sync up with your current interest. Keeping their wallets fat.
You're right, but I never implied that in case that was what you were instigating over.
I was simply noting that it is a relatively futile effort to boycott hollywood in hopes of "changing their minds" over what they choose to support in terms of legislation.
Valefor.Mithano
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 541
By Valefor.Mithano 2012-01-20 15:33:15
I bet you there are companies that oppose SOPA/PIPA and don't care about your "well being"
Companies do not have feelings - they are not people (despite what the law may say).
Boycotts and protests DO work, but it would be wrong to say they all do. People like Hollywood, and the movies they make (Avatar not included!), the problem isn't with the content. The problem is with the money, and who gets what and how much and when. That's why I am against a Hollywood boycott - there are other, better ways to fix the industry without outright removing it.
It would be similar to boycotting all cars because I object to gasoline usage. There are other ways improve autos without removing them all outright.
Regardless, the average person (one that cannot afford to spend all day being an activist) generally only has one real option - VOTE. You have a large election coming up this year. If you don't like what your current representatives are doing, DON'T VOTE FOR THEM. It really is that easy.
Valefor.Vandell
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 67
By Valefor.Vandell 2012-01-20 15:45:55
Welcome To The Internets, Post SOPA!
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=71a_1327079635
For stealing all those movies, music and video games, these sorts of videos will be your eternal punishment!
By Eugene 2012-01-20 16:00:31
I don't understand what I'm watching and I feel I've been horribly trolled.
Leviathan.Chaosx
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2012-01-21 07:15:34
Just saw this on TPB's home page and it made me lol:
By Kikorimo 2012-01-22 11:18:14
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=-tD1yaE0GfQ
Tried to post it here but got error. Everyone should watch this if they haven't already.
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3351
By Fenrir.Terminus 2012-01-22 11:33:44
lol vote. good luck.
Carbuncle.Joltx
サーバ: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3
By Carbuncle.Joltx 2012-01-22 12:04:26
Not sure if anyone posted this on the previous pages, but i just find it ironic that while they tossed the SOPA and PIPA in our faces, theyre trying to sneak this through the back door.
http://digitaljournal.com/article/317977
Lakshmi.Jesi
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 576
By Lakshmi.Jesi 2012-01-22 12:14:45
Ragnarok.Yathatguy said: »Fenrir.Bellalunaa said: »http://boycott-hollywood.org/
Join the rest of the world to boycott Hollywood. We need to protect ourselves and show our support for all the freedoms we currently have (including the use of this site; many thanks to the team who make it possible).
Ummm why boycott Hollywood? You do know that you play a game...a game made by the largest profiting section of the media industry right? It needs to be fine tuned by OUR representatives not by Hollywood.
I'd have to agree here.
Hollywood holds no interests in the well being of it's consumers or people in general. They will always seek out legislation that are within their interests and benefits. The key is us making sure those in office are truly representing us rather than their pockets and the lobbyists that filled em up with coin.
And since this will never happen, the only way to stop it is to make it so it makes no financial sense for them to give money to politicians.
This is from that boycott website and it was a quote from FOX news.
Quote: “Don’t ask me to write a check for you when you think your job is at risk and then don’t pay any attention to me when my job is at stake… I would caution people don’t make the assumption that because the quote ‘Hollywood community’ has been historically supportive of Democrats, which they have, don’t make the false assumptions this year that because we did it in years past, we will do it this year”
This is a perfect example of why we need to get corporate money out of politics as quickly as possible. The MPAA is attempting to bribe and blackmail politicians to get support for SOPA. Sounds criminal… but it’s not.
They are telling Democrats that they had better fall in line or else lose out on Hollywood support, which is huge by the way.
Leviathan.Chaosx
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2012-01-22 13:08:45
Not sure if anyone posted this on the previous pages, but i just find it ironic that while they tossed the SOPA and PIPA in our faces, theyre trying to sneak this through the back door.
http://digitaljournal.com/article/317977I thought that was going to be about OPEN which I clicked it.
Sylph.Zohnax
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 248
By Sylph.Zohnax 2012-01-22 13:41:18
Not sure if anyone posted this on the previous pages, but i just find it ironic that while they tossed the SOPA and PIPA in our faces, theyre trying to sneak this through the back door.
http://digitaljournal.com/article/317977So, with the help of that other bill they passed recently, if this one passed will they fill up our prisons even more or start deporting people? lol
By Artemicion 2012-01-22 14:03:11
With bills of this extremity coming out one after another, the US is starting to look more and more imperialistic by the day.
And it scares the hell out of me.
Sylph.Zohnax
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 248
By Sylph.Zohnax 2012-01-22 14:41:30
With bills of this extremity coming out one after another, the US is starting to look more and more imperialistic by the day.
And it scares the hell out of me. Indeed. Will end up having to fight for our freedoms all over again.
Sylph.Kimble
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2012-01-22 14:44:32
It wont pass and it isnt worth getting to upset about. Stupid, extreme bills are brought up like this all the time but rare do they ever go to a first vote.
By Artemicion 2012-01-22 14:48:29
It wont pass and it isnt worth getting to upset about. Stupid, extreme bills are brought up like this all the time but rare do they ever go to a first vote.
Though they're unlikely to pass, the fact that there is a recognizable trend of legislation of extreme nature popping up one after the other on such a short margin of time is pretty damned scary. The principle of fundamentals appear to be diminishing and extreme views put into power and influence seems to be on the rise.
Seraph.Koroma
By Seraph.Koroma 2012-01-22 18:06:40
Sylph.Kimble
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2012-01-22 21:23:21
It wont pass and it isnt worth getting to upset about. Stupid, extreme bills are brought up like this all the time but rare do they ever go to a first vote.
Though they're unlikely to pass, the fact that there is a recognizable trend of legislation of extreme nature popping up one after the other on such a short margin of time is pretty damned scary. The principle of fundamentals appear to be diminishing and extreme views put into power and influence seems to be on the rise.
Its not really that scary when you realize bills like this have been proposed hundreds of times and nothing ever comes of them.
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8022
By Shiva.Viciousss 2012-01-22 21:32:20
Its not really that scary when you realize bills like this have been proposed hundreds of times and nothing ever comes of them.
And yet people will claim that the internet protests actually accomplished something and played a big part of the withdrawal of the bills. Instead of realizing that yet another controversial Republican-led bill died because it had no chance of getting by the Democrat controlled Senate, much less the White House.
Sylph.Kimble
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2012-01-22 21:38:31
Its not really that scary when you realize bills like this have been proposed hundreds of times and nothing ever comes of them.
And yet people will claim that the internet protests actually accomplished something and played a big part of the withdrawal of the bills. Instead of realizing that yet another controversial Republican-led bill died because it had no chance of getting by the Democrat controlled Senate, much less the White House.
I'm sure they did help some what, but not as much as people would like to believe. Hell a lot of sites talked big about "taking their sites down" and such and when the day came, barely of those sites even made mention of the protest. I give wiki huge credit for pretty much taking their site down (i'm aware there was ways around it but lets be honest, most people wouldn't even bother going through the steps to disable javascript).
Cerberus.Caitlinn
サーバ: Cerberus
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Posts: 4
By Cerberus.Caitlinn 2012-01-22 22:13:17
ppl need to read more news SOPA and PIPA got canceled after just about every major website our government uses blacked itself out to show what will happen if hte bill passes he canceled the bill before it even got voted on
Sylph.Kimble
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2012-01-22 22:20:18
Cerberus.Caitlinn said: »ppl need to read more news SOPA and PIPA got canceled after just about every major website our government uses blacked itself out to show what will happen if hte bill passes he canceled the bill before it even got voted on
Really? What major websites? Only ones I know to actually black its self out was Reddit and Wiki.
They aren't canceled really. Just on hold until they rework the bills.
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8022
By Shiva.Viciousss 2012-01-22 22:23:31
Furthermore, I'm fairly certain our government doesn't use wiki very often. And while they aren't cancelled, I really dont see them being successfully reworked to a point where Obama would actually sign them into law.
Sylph.Zohnax
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 248
By Sylph.Zohnax 2012-01-22 22:50:21
Its not really that scary when you realize bills like this have been proposed hundreds of times and nothing ever comes of them.
And yet people will claim that the internet protests actually accomplished something and played a big part of the withdrawal of the bills. Instead of realizing that yet another controversial Republican-led bill died because it had no chance of getting by the Democrat controlled Senate, much less the White House. Actually the bill had a lot of supporters including democrats and they along with media producers were "shocked" at the internet's uprising against these bills.
You may have noticed a number of sites around the internet either going offline, or blacking themselves out today, in protest of two bills in the US Congress that were recently set to pass with nearly unanimous consent of both Republicans and Democrats. An enormous opposition movement has popped up among tech, game, and internet companies, and the bills are now stalled pending further review, but the Democratic (Senate) and Republican (House) leaders are still set on moving forward with them at some point, so it's still important to mention.
Here's a description of what these bills do in a nutshell, and why our users should be concerned.
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Probably the most important provision of online copyright law is something called the DMCA Safe Harbor Provision. This legal provision says that someone who hosts a site that allows user content (example: Google, which links to other sites, FFXI, which allows user chat, or even our site, which allows forum posts) is a legally separate entity from their users, as far as copyright violations are concerned.
In plain English, this means that if one of you decides to make a forum post linking to or re-posting copyrighted content, you are legally responsible. You can be sued. But as long as we make a good faith effort to remove the content as soon as we're notified, we (meaning Scragg, Cliff, and I) cannot be held personally responsible, nor directly sued for violation of copyright ourselves.
Similarly, Safe Harbor means that we cannot be held responsible for sites that we link to, should those sites violate copyright. In other words, if gamerescape, or wikia, or any of the sites linked in our item pages violate copyright somewhere on their own pages, that's their problem -- not ours.
The only way for a copyright holder to take legal action against FFXIAH.com is if they take us to court, and prove beyond a reasonable doubt that we purposely and actively engaged in the violation of copyright ourselves. Which is a pretty high bar to reach.
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SOPA and PIPA essentially remove the Safe Harbor provision. In other words, if one of you decides to link to copyrighted content on our forum, we are now directly and personally responsible, and can theoretically be sued for copyright violation as though we were the ones doing it ourselves. Similarly, if a site we link to (like wikia) decides to violate copyright, we can also be held responsible just for linking to them.
Worse, the bills remove the requirement to even take us to court. Copyright holders themselves (private entities) can now go straight to the internet's DNS authorities (the master address listing for all sites on the web) and file a complaint. This will immediately knock FFXIAH.com offline without so much as a court ruling. It's then incumbent upon us to fight back in court and earn the right to bring the site back.
Copyright holders argue this is necessary because they lose money for every second a site is allowed to link to, or feature, copyrighted content. They argue they need ultimate power to knock sites off the internet immediately, and only deal with the burden of proof later.
They promise to only use their new powers "sparingly" and "responsibly." I'm sure you can all guess how that one will end.
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This makes the internet a very dangerous place to operate. Google could be held responsible for returning links to any sites that could even possibly feature copyrighted content. (Which is most of them.) We could be forced to pre-censor all forum and user content for copyright violations before we could even put them online. Arguably, MMO's couldn't even allow users to speak freely in chat, as they might mention something copyrighted, which would make the MMO companies themselves legally responsible, and capable of being knocked offline without trial at the first complaint. Sites like Wikipedia, which are based entirely on user content, probably couldn't operate at all due to the inherent dangers. The effects would be widespread and very chilling to how the internet operates.
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Having worked in the games industry for 15 years, I'm acutely aware of the financial damage done by online piracy. This thread is not the place to argue the virtues or moral pitfalls of pirated content.
That being said, these bills are deeply flawed. They were written by major copyright holders (the recording and movie industries) to give them carte blanche ultimate authority over the internet. They comprise a massive overreach, and our elected representatives (who are too old to even understand how VCRs work, let alone the web) are too clueless to realize what's actually in them.
If you have a second, please sign one of the (many) online petitions in protest of SOPA and PIPA, and/or contact your representative or senator and urge them to oppose the bills. This is not a Democrat or Republican thing -- both parties have been equally supportive of the bills and both parties are responsible.
The massive outpouring of opposition from tech companies has caused many people in Congress to change their minds, and the White House has also now expressed reservations about signing the bills in their current form. But the battle isn't done yet. The bills still live, and will still be brought up in the next Congressional session.
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Thanks for taking the time to read this.
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