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SOPA and PIPA
By Artemicion 2012-01-19 15:43:26
So, I was wondering. If this does actually pass, then would all the music threads, the threads with any and all pop-culture clips, and the LOLpic thread have to be wiped from AH?
Potentially. But luckily lolcats are safe as fuzzy kittens aren't the intellectual property of anyone but their loving owners which I honestly can't imagine would take hostile legal measures against those that would stamp captions to their furry friends.
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Cerberus.Draupnir
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By Cerberus.Draupnir 2012-01-19 15:44:06
As well as our Avatars D:
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By Ragnarok.Shadowknoll 2012-01-19 15:46:26
besides the community the only reason's I stay around these forums would be gone if they pass =/
By Artemicion 2012-01-19 15:46:48
Cerberus.Draupnir said: »As well as our Avatars D:
Indeed. Mine too would be guilty of infringement despite being endorsed and sanctioned as a downloadable avatar from the owner's site :P
By zahrah 2012-01-19 16:14:59
What. A. Clusterfuck.
By slipispsycho 2012-01-19 16:35:00
The forums themselves would likely have to go, if not the site all together..
Look how long it takes sometimes to get attention to inappropriate material as is.. Every second a piece of copyrighted material was up, would be every every second the admins/owners of the site would be at legal risk. They don't have the resources to police the forums so vigilantly that never happens.
By Eugene 2012-01-19 17:03:06
So, I was wondering...If this does actually pass, then would all the music threads, the threads with any and all pop-culture clips, and the LOLpic thread have to be wiped from AH?
It depends whether or not the work falls under fair use. Stills or short gifs of a copyrighted work generally fall under fair use, assuming there is criticism or commentary accompanying it, so likely they'd legally still be allowed.
Whether the entertainment industry would use its powers to punish websites with fair use works is another matter. Eliminating due process would mean they can get websites shut down without an overwhelming burden of proof.
Cerberus.Draupnir said: »As well as our Avatars D: That might not fall under fair use.
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Bismarck.Rosalee
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By Bismarck.Rosalee 2012-01-19 17:08:23
In good news, I just got an email reply from one of my senators, Sen. Mark Kirk, professing his opposition to PIPA as it stands (his stance wasn't listed on http://projects.propublica.org/sopa/). Unfortunately, however, the other senator (Sen. *** Durbin) for my state is in support of the bill.
Cerberus.Kiori
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By Cerberus.Kiori 2012-01-19 17:12:56
a few pages back people were talking about the lack of people voteing in the US. I see no point to voting...when the citizens vote...that is called the Popular Vote...our votes get counted...yes...but they don't actually always decide who our President is. Look at my list below.
John Quincy Adams in 1824 (Andrew Jackson won the popular vote.)
Rutherford Hayes in 1876 (Samuel Tilden won the popular vote)
Benjamin Harrison in 1888 ( incumbent president Grover Cleveland won the popular vote)
George W. Bush in 2000 ( Al Gore won the popular vote)
ridiculing or scoffing at people who don't vote, but try to put there opinion out there doesn't make much sense to me...when in fact our votes don't always matter.
*edit
I signed the petitions for helping to stop this...i believe a petition has more power then the vote in our current system...hence why i brought up my opinion above. maybe i'm over reacting a bit...but it felt like from reading those few post made my opinion a little less valid to those who do vote.
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By Valefor.Annikahansen 2012-01-19 17:16:37
a few pages back people were talking about the lack of people voteing in the US. I see no point to voting...when the citizens vote...that is called the Popular Vote...our votes get counted...yes...but they don't actually always decide who our President is. Look at my list below.
John Quincy Adams in 1824 (Andrew Jackson won the popular vote.)
Rutherford Hayes in 1876 (Samuel Tilden won the popular vote)
Benjamin Harrison in 1888 ( incumbent president Grover Cleveland won the popular vote)
George W. Bush in 2000 ( Al Gore won the popular vote)
ridiculing or scoffing at people who don't vote, but try to put there opinion out there doesn't make much sense to me...when in fact our votes don't always matter. this is why i don't vote
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2012-01-19 17:26:49
Quote: So, how does it all look to the people who actually live with it? In China, the reaction to American protests has ranged from sympathy to gentle Schadenfreude, as Chinese Web users try to sort out whether they are being held up as victims or patsies or pirates. After several years in which American diplomats have inveighed against Internet censorship in China, the proposals have inspired a bit of snickering. “The Great Firewall turns out to be a visionary product; the American government is trying to copy us,” one commentator wrote. A Chinese message making the rounds on Thursday said: “At last, the planet is becoming unified: We are ahead of the whole world, and the ‘American imperialists’ are racing to catch up.”
Source
Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2012-01-19 17:31:54
In good news, I just got an email reply from one of my senators, Sen. Mark Kirk, professing his opposition to PIPA as it stands (his stance wasn't listed on http://projects.propublica.org/sopa/). Unfortunately, however, the other senator (Sen. *** Durbin) for my state is in support of the bill. Another Illinois resident!
Lakshmi.Kolvar
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By Lakshmi.Kolvar 2012-01-19 17:35:44
Quetzalcoatl.Roark
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By Quetzalcoatl.Roark 2012-01-19 17:57:51
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2012-01-19 18:07:11
In good news, I just got an email reply from one of my senators, Sen. Mark Kirk, professing his opposition to PIPA as it stands (his stance wasn't listed on http://projects.propublica.org/sopa/). Unfortunately, however, the other senator (Sen. *** Durbin) for my state is in support of the bill. Another Illinois resident!
Same here, I labeled him as an ignorant fossil that can't even use a computer. Yet he votes on a bill that can change the internet for so many.
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By Ragnarok.Shadowknoll 2012-01-19 18:19:29
Quote: ‘American imperialists’ are racing to catch up.”
Source . . .. . so many slaps need to be given out, where to start.
I signed the petitions for helping to stop this...i believe a petition has more power then the vote in our current system...hence why i brought up my opinion above. maybe i'm over reacting a bit...but it felt like from reading those few post made my opinion a little less valid to those who do vote.
Your opinion is just as valid as anyone's, but thinking your vote does nothing seems like an over reaction personally. Politicians want this type of voting system because people think this way in large numbers and become apathetic because who they want seems like a hopefulness vote.
Cerberus.Kalyna
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By Cerberus.Kalyna 2012-01-19 21:36:12
I don't know how reliable this is but I'm being hopeful.
Valefor.Endoq
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By Valefor.Endoq 2012-01-20 08:25:20
consequences will never be the same! XD
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By Fenrir.Bellalunaa 2012-01-20 08:34:57
http://boycott-hollywood.org/
Join the rest of the world to boycott Hollywood. We need to protect ourselves and show our support for all the freedoms we currently have (including the use of this site; many thanks to the team who make it possible).
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2012-01-20 10:52:01
First SOPA shelved indefinitely, now this: Reid postpones Senate vote on PIPA anti-piracy bill
But don't think the war has been won, it's only just begun...
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By Lifty 2012-01-20 11:25:21
I'd like to know how the Government of one Nation can legally take down any website they see fit. It's called the World Wide Web. Even if the bill is passed by any rights it can only affect websites based in the United states. I'm not trying to justify the bill just trying to understand how US Government thinks they can start to fix piracy issues when it's not an isolated problem.
Bahamut.Krizz
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By Bahamut.Krizz 2012-01-20 11:27:43
I'd like to know how the Government of one Nation can legally take down any website they see fit. It's called the World Wide Web. Even if the bill is passed by any rights it can only affect websites based in the United states. I'm not trying to justify the bill just trying to understand how US Government thinks they can start to fix piracy issues when it's not an isolated problem. It wouldn't take down the site. It would block it from being accessed by the US. They would strike it from DNS.
By volkom 2012-01-20 11:29:20
I'd like to know how the Government of one Nation can legally take down any website they see fit. It's called the World Wide Web. Even if the bill is passed by any rights it can only affect websites based in the United states. I'm not trying to justify the bill just trying to understand how US Government thinks they can start to fix piracy issues when it's not an isolated problem. It wouldn't take down the site. It would block it from being accessed by the US. They would strike it from DNS. so basically if its a foreign site, the gov blocks it, and if its a domestic site they can shut it down right?
Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2012-01-20 11:41:21
I'd like to know how the Government of one Nation can legally take down any website they see fit. It's called the World Wide Web. Even if the bill is passed by any rights it can only affect websites based in the United states. I'm not trying to justify the bill just trying to understand how US Government thinks they can start to fix piracy issues when it's not an isolated problem. It wouldn't take down the site. It would block it from being accessed by the US. They would strike it from DNS. so basically if its a foreign site, the gov blocks it, and if its a domestic site they can shut it down right? Pretty much. They can also ask other nations to cooperate if there are legal remedies in those nations as well.
Cerberus.Tidis
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By Cerberus.Tidis 2012-01-20 12:12:07
oh wait so this bill in no way shape or form affects me? Woo go SOPA, go PIPA!
Just kidding.
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By Ragnarok.Shadowknoll 2012-01-20 12:40:49
I'd like to know how the Government of one Nation can legally take down any website they see fit. It's called the World Wide Web. Even if the bill is passed by any rights it can only affect websites based in the United states. I'm not trying to justify the bill just trying to understand how US Government thinks they can start to fix piracy issues when it's not an isolated problem.
your talking about the people who are saying they don't fully understand the internet. what can you expect out of stupid people like this? I honestly don't know how these people are in office if this is true(and i doubt it is . . )
Ragnarok.Yathatguy
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By Ragnarok.Yathatguy 2012-01-20 12:48:57
Fenrir.Bellalunaa said: »http://boycott-hollywood.org/
Join the rest of the world to boycott Hollywood. We need to protect ourselves and show our support for all the freedoms we currently have (including the use of this site; many thanks to the team who make it possible).
Ummm why boycott Hollywood? You do know that you play a game...a game made by the largest profiting section of the media industry right? It needs to be fine tuned by OUR representatives not by Hollywood.
Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2012-01-20 12:54:12
Fenrir.Bellalunaa said: »http://boycott-hollywood.org/ Join the rest of the world to boycott Hollywood. We need to protect ourselves and show our support for all the freedoms we currently have (including the use of this site; many thanks to the team who make it possible). Boycotting hollywood may get rid of some piracy... boycott the people who make the forms of entertainment til they go out of business then we will no longer have anything to pirate from them!
By Artemicion 2012-01-20 12:55:29
Ragnarok.Yathatguy said: »Fenrir.Bellalunaa said: »http://boycott-hollywood.org/
Join the rest of the world to boycott Hollywood. We need to protect ourselves and show our support for all the freedoms we currently have (including the use of this site; many thanks to the team who make it possible).
Ummm why boycott Hollywood? You do know that you play a game...a game made by the largest profiting section of the media industry right? It needs to be fine tuned by OUR representatives not by Hollywood.
I'd have to agree here.
Hollywood holds no interests in the well being of it's consumers or people in general. They will always seek out legislation that are within their interests and benefits. The key is us making sure those in office are truly representing us rather than their pockets and the lobbyists that filled em up with coin.
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You may have noticed a number of sites around the internet either going offline, or blacking themselves out today, in protest of two bills in the US Congress that were recently set to pass with nearly unanimous consent of both Republicans and Democrats. An enormous opposition movement has popped up among tech, game, and internet companies, and the bills are now stalled pending further review, but the Democratic (Senate) and Republican (House) leaders are still set on moving forward with them at some point, so it's still important to mention.
Here's a description of what these bills do in a nutshell, and why our users should be concerned.
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Probably the most important provision of online copyright law is something called the DMCA Safe Harbor Provision. This legal provision says that someone who hosts a site that allows user content (example: Google, which links to other sites, FFXI, which allows user chat, or even our site, which allows forum posts) is a legally separate entity from their users, as far as copyright violations are concerned.
In plain English, this means that if one of you decides to make a forum post linking to or re-posting copyrighted content, you are legally responsible. You can be sued. But as long as we make a good faith effort to remove the content as soon as we're notified, we (meaning Scragg, Cliff, and I) cannot be held personally responsible, nor directly sued for violation of copyright ourselves.
Similarly, Safe Harbor means that we cannot be held responsible for sites that we link to, should those sites violate copyright. In other words, if gamerescape, or wikia, or any of the sites linked in our item pages violate copyright somewhere on their own pages, that's their problem -- not ours.
The only way for a copyright holder to take legal action against FFXIAH.com is if they take us to court, and prove beyond a reasonable doubt that we purposely and actively engaged in the violation of copyright ourselves. Which is a pretty high bar to reach.
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SOPA and PIPA essentially remove the Safe Harbor provision. In other words, if one of you decides to link to copyrighted content on our forum, we are now directly and personally responsible, and can theoretically be sued for copyright violation as though we were the ones doing it ourselves. Similarly, if a site we link to (like wikia) decides to violate copyright, we can also be held responsible just for linking to them.
Worse, the bills remove the requirement to even take us to court. Copyright holders themselves (private entities) can now go straight to the internet's DNS authorities (the master address listing for all sites on the web) and file a complaint. This will immediately knock FFXIAH.com offline without so much as a court ruling. It's then incumbent upon us to fight back in court and earn the right to bring the site back.
Copyright holders argue this is necessary because they lose money for every second a site is allowed to link to, or feature, copyrighted content. They argue they need ultimate power to knock sites off the internet immediately, and only deal with the burden of proof later.
They promise to only use their new powers "sparingly" and "responsibly." I'm sure you can all guess how that one will end.
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This makes the internet a very dangerous place to operate. Google could be held responsible for returning links to any sites that could even possibly feature copyrighted content. (Which is most of them.) We could be forced to pre-censor all forum and user content for copyright violations before we could even put them online. Arguably, MMO's couldn't even allow users to speak freely in chat, as they might mention something copyrighted, which would make the MMO companies themselves legally responsible, and capable of being knocked offline without trial at the first complaint. Sites like Wikipedia, which are based entirely on user content, probably couldn't operate at all due to the inherent dangers. The effects would be widespread and very chilling to how the internet operates.
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Having worked in the games industry for 15 years, I'm acutely aware of the financial damage done by online piracy. This thread is not the place to argue the virtues or moral pitfalls of pirated content.
That being said, these bills are deeply flawed. They were written by major copyright holders (the recording and movie industries) to give them carte blanche ultimate authority over the internet. They comprise a massive overreach, and our elected representatives (who are too old to even understand how VCRs work, let alone the web) are too clueless to realize what's actually in them.
If you have a second, please sign one of the (many) online petitions in protest of SOPA and PIPA, and/or contact your representative or senator and urge them to oppose the bills. This is not a Democrat or Republican thing -- both parties have been equally supportive of the bills and both parties are responsible.
The massive outpouring of opposition from tech companies has caused many people in Congress to change their minds, and the White House has also now expressed reservations about signing the bills in their current form. But the battle isn't done yet. The bills still live, and will still be brought up in the next Congressional session.
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Thanks for taking the time to read this.
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