The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

It bothers my OCD that they didn't make it 250tp

Great Analysis Buukki, strangely enough I built a similar set and tried this same thing last night on Normal. Was surprised at how well it did, the intimidation's were great. In the end the fight took me about the same time as it did in my Malignance setup but the fight seemed easier, just lower tp gain on average took getting used to but it seems the lack of need to continually recast shadows made some of that time back for me. Planning on trying this on Dynamis-D Wave 3 mobs next to see how we can do.

Can't confirm if it was ever broken or not, but it's working as of this update.
SAM/WAR
Spirits Within, 2024 HP, 1000 TP
Expected damage if TP Bonus +200 ineffective: 253 damage
Expected daamge if TP Bonus +200 effective: 404 damage
Damage Dealt: 403 damage (likely some rounding somewhere that's missing to cause the 1 damage difference)

I think this might show a problem because of Fencer?

Derp. Been too long since I played this game.
Replicating the test with /PLD with 2000 HP results in a 250 damage Spirits Within. So yeah, Mpaca Head's TP bonus is broken.

Would this be current Shun set when not attack capped?

would think malig hat and maybe body would be better if you're able to cover the additional atk needed

Hey guys,

picking up ninja, working on kikoku trials atm (aeonic would be dream, but aeonic weapons seem to be a dream to me).

What should I do for Group 2 merits? is Sange still the way to go, the shurikan I see people referencing are from Ark GK, which I would imagine using San isn't ideal to throw those constantly. But, wondering what the best ones are.

really up to you, sange's not a bad JA to have but is prone to you losing a shuriken you didnt want to toss, plus nin's natural daken is already pretty high, if you have the gifts/JSE neck available its 74~79% right there.

I do 5/5 Ninjutsu Macc and 5/5 Ninjutsu MAB. We have pretty solid nuking options now (definitely check out Logical's Ninjutsu sets video, one of my favorites of his). One of NIN's strengths these days is excellent SC ability, and you can get some really solid additional damage by MBing. I get way more out of that than Sange.

Personally, I used to have Sange merited but I'd generally only use it for "serious" zerg-type situations for TP gain - and I'd remove my good/expensive shuriken from inventory entirely before a fight and stick 'em in a mog sack.

I dropped Sange when they made the NIN merit category changes and I really haven't missed it. As Nariot said, we get so much Daken already with JSE neck/traits/gifts, so we're talking increasing Daken proc rate about 20% with Sange. After which you still have a ranged accuracy check with a cap of 95%, and your Daken hit rate may be even lower depending on actual situation, especially considering that Madrigals that help melee Acc don't help Racc, nor do our RMEA weapons (aside from Kannagi's AGI) or some common offhands (like the notable daggers - Ternion +1, Tauret, Gleti's Knife). So, best case scenario is an additional shuriken proc in less than 1 out of 5 attack rounds for the 1min that Sange is up. I just don't find it worth the hassle for what's most likely a few extra Daken hits during the course of a zerg fight.

It's undeniably still something, and honestly the ideal is prob to unlock Sange and use it to maximize DPS. But for a JA that is far from game changing, it's kind of annoying and it burns through shuriken like a MFer (like 1/4 of a stack or more per Sange use). If I actually used NIN for zergs a lot, maybe I'd still have it. But if I'm doing a zerg fight, TBH I'm just not gonna be on NIN to begin with, so meh!

If you do go for Sange, don't do more than 1 merit in it to unlock the JA. And if you aren't confident you have a rock solid way to not lose the shuriken (be VERY careful of your inventory not running out of "NQ" shuriken you don't want to throw), I'd suggest just TPing with NQ Happo shuriken that you can buy from Curio Moogle. It's a very minimal hit to DPS for the security of not throwing your Date/Seki/Happo+1.

I went 5/5 Macc and 5/5 Mab myself, after years of promoting Sange.
I just couldn't stand it anymore.

Got pissed at the amount of "rare" shurikens I lost because of packet losses.

Honestly, that's what I was thinking of leaning towards. I do have a Gastra for Ranger, so I have a decent MAB set already (not the best, but still a good starting point), so I was leaning towards this, just need to get some more gear.

Too bad best nuking set for NIN is also best hybrid WS set for NIN and both are different paths.

This is true, however, I swapped in Body, Hand and Legs into my BiS MATK and MAB setup and saw 4-6k improvements on Apex bats (up to almost 40k now every time). Now if you have herc that had 25+ Matk 25+ Macc AND MB Bonus +6 or more, you might beat these items but I didn't have any such pieces, just a lot of pieces with lower magic attack and MB bonus +15 on it and such or 47 magic attack but little to no magic accuracy... the new pieces torch those options. So literally without a perfect Fern stone or good dark augment, just use those three pieces now with usual feet and head and be done with it. For me, I'll be going Path B but yea... part of me see's the probably 50+k MB's I could be doing with the Magic Path and it makes me wonder. :)

I'm a little weird.

I did 5/5 yonin merits, because ninja gets some crazy high HP of stacked properly.

Put one in sange for activation

Put 4 in magic accuracy for debuffs

Have no interest in mab or innin because I won't always be nuking. But the yonin is full-time regardless of direction, and is pretty nice when soloing. It's not even hard for Ninja to maintain 3k+ hp

I have 5/5 Innin (partly for MBing, but more so for hybrids) and 5/5 MAB (because if you nuke at all, you should have them).

Sange is mostly a liability, though I will say the ranged accuracy boost from 5/5 is kinda cool.

I agree. I'm thinking body/hands/legs being BiS minus some insane Oseem aug's (was pretty tough for me to get mbb 5+ and 30mattck+ on augs). Another factor is the good chunk of INT on t4 set vs previous pieces. Sitting at about +50 more INT using t4 body/hands/legs vs samnuha + herc hands/legs w/augs. My mb numbers almost looking close to pre-relic augment swaps now at least :/

As far as the new T4 pieces I'm thinking boost to:
nin mb
hybrids
metsu (metsu so freaking attack starved might be nice w/wsd set and attack)
ten (ya, wsd obviously and welcomed attck)
kamu (curious to see some numbers from people w/mythic and t4 set wsd. decent str/int + wsd). Be kinda cool if made decent and I had a reason to make mythic outside of style lock :p

WSD is shitty stats for Kamu. You want STR/INT and multihit for it. 1% Triple Attack is even to 4%WSD.

In addition to Simon's comment, you're gonna be curious for quite a while to see any decent WSD augments on T4 gear due to the crazy amount of farming required to upgrade ;)

And honestly, if I was only thinking about Nagi... the STP path A on Nyame is just sick. Malignance is already great gear for Nagi AM3 sets for the STP, but Nyame adding solid attack to the mix actually makes it more viable that you may be able to take advantage of PDL. Since Nagi is really good for the role of a hybrid DPS-tank, it's also fantastic to have strong Meva/DT in case something slips through shadows or ignores them. The only real negative is that it's "only" serving as essentially a Malignance upgrade, when Malignance performs a similar role. But damn, it's a nice upgrade.

Re: your mythic comment though... even with all of the RMEA at my disposal, I often do find myself defaulting to Nagi (R15) these days for most stuff that I use NIN for:

- I find NIN to be one of the absolute best jobs for Odyssey segment farming, which is becoming a thing we're gonna see a lot of in the coming year or so. I usually act as the main tank + DPS. So I like the combination of enmity and solid DPS. I'd use Fudo C for all out tanking if my DD contribution was unimportant (like it might be for some NM fights), but that isn't Odyssey farming.

- Kamu is very respectable with Nagi augment. People just tend not to think that way because they're used to trying out Kamu on a not-Nagi, which is kinda trash.

- When I'm soloing anything, rapid fire Mythic AM3-up light SCs with Kamu-Shun(or longer multisteps) are very effective, and Macc adds something too when you're tacking on MBs. Heishi is pretty good in this role too though (if somewhat less reliable to get self-SCs, though not a huge issue) - easy Shun-Shun light and MB bonus on the weapon.

On other more trivial content, it's honestly sort of irrelevant which RMEA to use. They all have their strengths and slightly different playstyles, but I never feel like I'm that much better/worse off with one over the other. In that case, I also go with Nagi a lot just for the looks factor :)

I feel like Heishi got a bit overrated these last couple years due to Dynamis Divergence being a key activity, and lending itself to picking the weapon that spams WS for the best raw WS numbers with few SCs. Well buffed Heishi with Ten/Hybrids, or lesser buffs with Shun, performs great. As we start doing different things, you get to see a bit more advantage from some of the other weapons though - Kikoku for Metsu's strong SCs, Nagi's nice blend of enmity and DPS for a DD/tank, Kannagi tends to shine whenever you have spottier buffs, etc.

damn...lol still kinda want to make nagi to add to the set but can't justify the cost. Kanngi still sitting around 1/2 finished too.

Yea a lot of different ways to do content- for example though, in ody-c seg farm group we don't even bother w/tank. just x3 dd in hybrid sets, brd/cor/whm and usually around 6k+ per run. Most stuff explodes w/ 1 good dd ws or 2 at minimum (with/without sc). Usually try to take own mob because it doesnt make sense fighting something w/2+ people on it and the time it takes to retarget. Same set up usually do 2-3 nms & 2-3 aegons without a tank.

Nin is great for super low man and or solo stuff tanking but for most content just feels more like a parlor trick than actual tank.

How good is Nagi actually? Most things I've heard or read have it's usefulness for just the +40 enmity and that that's it. Been contemplating what to do for a 3rd mythic (gonna do bard for my alt, so was gonna do something for my main, but I just can't decide).

I kinda agree that tank isn't needed in C. Most dd jobs has access to Malignance/Sakpata/Gleti's/Mpaca. There is no reason for tank where there is only 10 monsters in group. Each dd can run to own target and tank 1-2 links if something aggro.

I think nin as a tank has solid survivability and hate, but it lacks strong party buffs. PLD has great aoe cures and stuff like Rampart and circle. Run has OFA and Valiance.

Paldin also gives all the other party members up to 150 bonus defense for the whole run, which lets them separate more easily.

NIN has arguably the best damage while still "tanking" though (yeah yeah I know RUN can DPS too), so that's something. Especially in content like Odyssey where NIN's DPS potential is just fine (you can only overkill the mob by so much with a Torcleaver or whatever). And I mean, mobs are dying so fast anyway why NOT help soak up some hits on a lot of pulls instead of making your DRK friend eat them? Or free up the healer to be able to give a bit more focus on other people on a different mob.

Can also help patch over some holes in parties pretty well. Farming segments with 4/6 real people and a trust healer? Let someone else call healer and have them get faster cures, and YOU go solo your own mob with little risk due to shadows (assuming you're on an appropriate mob type, but a lot of Odyssey is pretty blink-tank friendly, it's sorta "meripo reforged" in that respect).

I appreciate RUN's defensive buffs, but they aren't that big of a deal on most nostos mobs. I'm actually more intrigued by something like PLD taking on most of the healing with Majesty while tanking and giving defensive buffs that are more impactful, while freeing up a dedicated healer party slot for another DPS or support job. Kinda neat to see ways to use jobs that haven't been as popular recently.

IDK, I just feel like NIN is fun and effective in there. But like kitfoxrot said, lotta options.


I mean, I actually half made the thing as a joke...

But it's better than it gets credit for offensively, especially with the rise of Malignance gear being a great combo with Mythic AM3 and Kamu being more respectable than its bad reputation. I think it's very fun to gain TP at lightning speed and take advantage of NIN's SC flexibility in solo/lowman situations. The ability to hold hate better while playing as a hybrid DPS/tank is also of some use.

And the best parts: (1) it looks cool, and (2) FREE RERAISE WHEN U BLOW UP.

I wouldn't suggest it as anyone's first NIN RMEA, but you have a Kikoku as a good all-arounder and IIRC you said Aeonic isn't in the cards for you soon, so it's not that crazy to make another fun NIN toy while you're simultaneously working on your alt's Aht Urghan stuff (and lol I did my tokens/ichor/assualts for Nagi at the same time as my BRD alt's Carn too).

Looking at your other mastered jobs without mythics if your FFXI profile is current, if those were the jobs you're most excited about playing... IDK, *I* would prob go NIN if I were you :) But I'd guess the popular opinion would maybe be Tizona > Liberator > Nagi > Glanz (especially since you have Vere already)

Honestly, I've been debating between nagi, Tizona and liberator. I don't really use Blue much other than some small things here and there, my gear for it is pretty bad. Same with Drk too, I actually haven't played it since returning to the game recently.. The fact that I'm gearing up ninja now does make it appealing and hell, I made Kenkonken, why not Nagi haha.

I was talking about more in general, including Gaol for example.
Like I said you dont really need tank in C. DRK friend is probably the worst example. DRK can Drain III and Dread Spikes and even if mobs are half resisting dread spikes, its still one of the sturdiest job out there, especially that you can full time Sakpata for TP and mostly for WS too. Apoc DRK could probably even split completely and go solo stuff on its own.
NIN with Nagi is just poor DPS with buffs you get while segment farming. Nagi dps is okish in very low buff scenario only. Good BRD is probably doing more damage than Nagi NIN in segment farming scenario.
BLU can easily be more effective for group survivability than NIN in segment farming. You run in with blinks sleep/petrify all the mobs in group and people can pick them one by one. No need for tank. You also give people Mighty Guard on higher floors or time it for Agons. Not to mention 1400+ AoE cure. Nin looks useless in comparison.

K, I'll keep enjoying using my useless job for Odyssey.

I didnt say its useless. I said it seems useless for group survivability in comparison to for example BLU. You keep trying to make Nagi worth it with imo weak arguments and I pointing this out. Sorry if that hurts your feelings.

EDIT: and statement like this:

are imo confusing too. If you try to be main tank, then you would need to keep spamming Utusuemi for AoE hate, so your dps is reduced to irrelevant (and thats the only situation where Nagi would be useful for enmity, but its damage is the irrelevant). Maybe you mean you are trying to be a main puller? Like you jump in into group of mobs and gather them for brd to sleep? Thats not main tanking tho and many jobs can do it. or you mean you pull 10 mobs and BRD for some reason dont sleep it (they are immune for example) and you holding them while DD (heishi would be better then tho, because you shouldnt tag those mobs then, so they have no active hate), when DDs are picking them up of you? Cool, but if mobs cant be slept, then why not just engage them few at a time, instead of pulling them all (mobs are spread enough to just kill them without much links)? Also like I said BLU can do it way better, because you can sleep or/and petrify almost every group of Nostos I think.

I honestly dont see even one good argument for NIN to be "one of the absolute best jobs for Odyssey segment farming". I dont see an argument for it to be even one of the good jobs for it. mediocre slashing damage, no blunt, rather bad piercing, no self healing or group dps buffs, no hard CC etc.

EDIT: I would gladly change my mind, because I like NIN, but I dont see and good argument. I'm happy to hear good arguments tho. Just not vague ones like you presented or controversial ones like Kamu damage is solid with Nagi. How much damage it does on avg? 14k?
EDIT: Logical sheet has avg Kamu damage at 12284 (with R15 Nagi) and dps at 3700 with capped att/acc/samuraiRoll. Thats like 60% of good BRD lol. It also doesnt count dps loss from casting shadows. Thats far from solid DPS.

I've been thinking more and more about not taking a tank to Sheol C farming. You rarely need to get aggro from more than 2-3 beastmen to kill a halo once you have pulled all the mobs or at least those in the way. Requires a good WHM though probably.