|
|
The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide
By SimonSes 2021-08-06 07:29:50
I didn't double check Rua but did you add the fixes and additional stuff I posted a few weeks/pages ago already?
The initial table you originally posted had like one or two errors and was missing some families.
Also if someone doesn't want to use Altana's Repast or Marine Stewpot, then I think Grape Daifuku +1 is a valid alternative.
Offhand-wise what's best after Kunimitsu? Ambu Katana? Dyna Katana?
TP bonus katana is actually bis for hybrids if you can maintain accuracy.
Grape Daifuku is not really alternative for Marine, because it lacks macc. Rolanberry Daifuku is alternative tho.
By iamaman 2021-08-06 07:33:10
The best main/offhand weapons are Heishi Shorinken and Kunimitsu. Another person with NIN in the group tried it but the TP Bonus Katana off-hand doesn’t stack up for some reason, perhaps the Magic Accuracy drop on the off-hand hit of a Hybrid Weapon Skill is just too steep. Not sure otherwise, can anyone else chime in?
I found the same thing, it is a noticeable difference. I'm not sure why, though, I would've thought the +1k TP Bonus would have beaten out the MAB/MD/MA on the Kunimitsu. Even when accuracy isn't an issue and I can hit everything fine, Kunimitsu beats it out.
For food I recommend Marine Stewpot, this is because Hybrid Weapon Skills dip on both Accuracy and Magic Accuracy. Marine Stewpot gives +90 to both and also gives +90 Ranged Accuracy for Daken.
Have you compared damage with macc food and without? I tried w/ Rolanberry Daifuku and the numbers I got (vs Apex Bats) were really close. I've seen others mention this, so I was a bit surprised when there wasn't really a noticeable difference.
I'm not really proficient in how hybrid damage is calculated, though, so maybe there is a reason I missed. I also haven't had a chance to try it in C, folks are skeptical enough bringing a NIN along atm, so I don't really experiment too much in there.
By SimonSes 2021-08-06 07:36:14
There will be 0 effect from Magic accuracy from food if you are macc capped without food.
I found the same thing, it is a noticeable difference. I'm not sure why, though, I would've thought the +1k TP Bonus would have beaten out the MAB/MD/MA on the Kunimitsu. Even when accuracy isn't an issue and I can hit everything fine, Kunimitsu beats it out.
Its most likely magic accuracy problem then or you actually overestimating your accuracy in WS set. Hitting accuracy cap with sub during TP is not the same as hitting accuracy cap in WS set. Most of Nyame B is pretty low accuracy.
By iamaman 2021-08-06 09:09:19
I'm not using Nyame except in a few slots, epeen not big enough to get into a v15 static. None of the pieces I used are augmented.
I did a few combos below, against Apex Bats again, one set of Heishi/Hitaki w/ TP Bonus and another with Kunimitsu. Both with and without food to compare. Food was Marine Stewpot. Only trust was Apu for erase/heals and no debufs (that I saw anyway). Same caveats apply as before (e.g. I know it is a limited sample set, etc). All Blade: Chi. I discarded results where I was above 1500tp or where I was debuffed (mainly the attack down one from bats).
MAcc (Armor, no weapons): 197
MAB (Armor, no weapons): 172
WSD: +15%
Hitaki w/o food
High: 13455
Low: 7710
Average: 9556
Kuni w/o food
High: 14318
Low: 7411
Average: 10979
Hitaki w/ food
High: 15243
Low: 8906
Average: 11915
Kuni w/ food
High: 14223
Low: 9331
Average: 11880
Going to 2k TP with Kuni got me between 18-22k. All results at pastebin.com/vRbDPzgg
By Izanami 2021-08-06 10:40:17
If your sample size is less than potentially 1000~2000 weapon skills per trial, then you will likely not arrive at meaningful results.
Hitaki should always win at low TP values if you can make up for the loss of accuracy in both TP phase and WS phase and the loss of white damage during TP phase. (Edit: Magic Accuracy is also important, of course. My simulations assume no magic resists for simplicity.)
If we overplot the distributions for Heishi+Kunimitsu and Heishi+Hitaki with the best Blade: Chi set, then we can more easily directly compare them:
For the TP range 1000-1300 on Apex Toads with 50,000 simulations each:
Low buffs: just Grape Daifuku and Dia2
Mid buffs: Grape Daifuku, Dia2, Chaos, Honor March, Victory March, Minuet5, and Minuet4
High Hybrid buffs: Grape Daifuku, Dia2, Chaos, Honor March, Victory March, Minuet5, Minuet4, Fury, Malaise
High Melee buffs: Grape Daifuku, Dia2, Chaos, Honor March, Victory March, Minuet5, Minuet4, Fury, Frailty
Without getting into details due to lack of time, if you weapon skill above 1500 TP with Hitaki, then it seems to be more beneficial to swap to Nagi over Heishi rather than swap out your Moonshade Earring, unrealistically assuming that you can perfectly maintain Lv3 aftermath.
[+]
By Kikomizuhara 2021-08-06 14:10:42
Nagi + Hitaki keep AM3 and ws above 1.5k tp. Got it thanks! Been trying to use my Nagi more so this is cool.
[+]
By SimonSes 2021-08-06 16:38:21
I'm not using Nyame except in a few slots, epeen not big enough to get into a v15 static. None of the pieces I used are augmented.
I did a few combos below, against Apex Bats again, one set of Heishi/Hitaki w/ TP Bonus and another with Kunimitsu. Both with and without food to compare. Food was Marine Stewpot. Only trust was Apu for erase/heals and no debufs (that I saw anyway). Same caveats apply as before (e.g. I know it is a limited sample set, etc). All Blade: Chi. I discarded results where I was above 1500tp or where I was debuffed (mainly the attack down one from bats).
MAcc (Armor, no weapons): 197
MAB (Armor, no weapons): 172
WSD: +15%
Hitaki w/o food
High: 13455
Low: 7710
Average: 9556
Kuni w/o food
High: 14318
Low: 7411
Average: 10979
Hitaki w/ food
High: 15243
Low: 8906
Average: 11915
Kuni w/ food
High: 14223
Low: 9331
Average: 11880
Going to 2k TP with Kuni got me between 18-22k. All results at pastebin.com/vRbDPzgg
Whats your accuracy with Hitaki in WS set?
By Izanami 2021-08-17 14:12:20
Hybrid weapon skills do a respectable amount of damage during the current Ramuh v1 VD Ambuscade. For future reference, I decided to screenshot the hybrids I used today.
I used each weapon skill above 1300~1500 TP. Similar numbers were seen with Blade: Teki on Ifrit yesterday without a 2nd COR, but I did not screenshot them at the time and did not see Ifrit today.
We used standard buffs: March, March, Min, Min with BRD, Samurai+Chaos with COR#1, and Wizard+Tactician with COR#2. Wizard's adds about 5%~10% damage to hybrids based on an earlier run without a 2nd COR, so it really isn't a huge jump. Having a 2nd COR is helpful for quickly taking down the main boss with quick draw ( see this 30-second VD clear video).
I didn't screenshot them, but I believe Savage Blade may have been doing 20k-25k damage and Blade: Ten may have been doing 15k-20k damage with the same buffs.
I have not yet updated my Tachi: Hybrid sets since finding the best in slot sets through my Python code. For example: I'm still missing the Alber Strap and haven't put Orpheus's Sash (or potentially Mpaca's Cap) into my Tachi: Hybrid sets yet. Although, Fotia Belt may win at low TP for Tachi: Kagero/Goten/Koki anyway.
I'm curious how much damage a SAM would do with Hybrids on the appropriate enemies during this Ambuscade.
[+]
By Kikomizuhara 2021-08-17 21:45:50
Ahh you're Kastra! Didn't want to use nagi? I'm guessing this is with r20 nyame?
By Izanami 2021-08-17 23:25:13
Ahh you're Kastra! Didn't want to use nagi? I didn't use Nagi because I thought that my hit rate would be too low to allow Hitaki to be used effectively. Next time I run Ambuscade, I'll try Nagi+Hitaki with Sublime Sushi instead of Grape Daifuku.
Nagi won't beat Heishi unless the TP Bonus +500 on Heishi becomes irrelevant. This occurs above 1500 TP if you're using Heishi+Hitaki. Above 1500 TP you should swap Heishi+Hitaki for Nagi+Hitaki and above 2000 TP you should also swap Moonshade Earring for Friomisi Earring. This means that Nagi+Kunimitsu will not beat Heishi+Kunimitsu unless you're above 2500 TP, which you shouldn't be anyway.
As a side note: if you don't want to spend 40m on an Epaminondas Ring, it's nice to know that Epona's Ring is only 0.7% worse on average, but 100% cheaper.
I'm guessing this is with r20 nyame?
My Nyame is all R20 path B and my Kunimitsu is R19.
[+]
By Ruaumoko 2021-08-17 23:27:42
Worth noting that a Warrior's Tomahawk will hit the -50% Physical resistance all Avatars have, thus increasing Hybrid damage.
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 829
By Asura.Iamaman 2021-08-18 09:38:24
We were doing V1VD last night, I had Naegling MH and Hitaki OH. I rotated through some sets, but was having trouble hitting Ramuh with Hitaki OH even w/ sushi and Hunters roll, primary acc in the set I was using was 1151. I ended up swapping to something else, but had no issues against the SMN or avatars. It was borderline though, maybe with a BRD we wouldn't have had any issues (or with the higher katana skill MH). Going to a Kuni OH and I had no issues.
I didn't try with katana MH since I don't have r20 Nyame and didn't want to risk accidentally setting off a SC, so I had to bandwagon.
Whats your accuracy with Hitaki in WS set?
Sorry, missed this, in the hybrid set with Heishi/Hitaki:
MAcc (Armor, no weapons): 197
MAB (Armor, no weapons): 172
Primary Acc: 1194
By SimonSes 2021-08-18 10:55:12
I'm confused. Why are you talking about primary accuracy when talking about hitaki offhand. Offhand is auxiliary accuracy if I recall correctly (not on PC now).
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 829
By Asura.Iamaman 2021-08-18 11:43:40
I'm confused. Why are you talking about primary accuracy when talking about hitaki offhand. Offhand is auxiliary accuracy if I recall correctly (not on PC now).
You are right, aux is OH. Aux is 917 (ouch)
By SimonSes 2021-08-18 12:08:16
Yeah 917 is way too low for many things, unless you get Honor+Madrigal. Even then it might be too low for some things.
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 829
By Asura.Iamaman 2021-08-18 12:21:46
Yea, that is in my WS set, may explain why two hitters like Chi can be all over the place.
My TP set with Hitaki is a little higher @ ~980-1003 (depending on amount of DW). I'll have to try and boost that if I have Hitaki equipped.
Out of curiosity, what is yours (or others) in your TP/WS sets w/ Hitaki equipped?
By Fribbit 2021-08-26 14:11:48
I am new to Ninja and still in the process of gearing up, but I had a question regarding neck pieces. I do not have a Ninja Nodowa +2(don't currently have 50-60mil to throw around), but I was thinking about buying a +1 version until I have the means to get a +2.
My question is this, does Ninja Nodowa +1 beat out Moonbeam Nodowa(assuming everything else stays the same for simplicity sake) or vice versa for any of the sets listed in the guide(mainly TP and WS though). On my server Moonbeam Nodowa is about 1-2mil and Ninja Nodowa +1 is about 2mil so I was curious if one was clearly better than the other while on my way to Ninja Nodowa +2.
My first instinct was +20 RACC probably beats +3 Store TP, but I could definitely be wrong.
 Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2021-08-26 14:20:36
Consider getting an Iskur from Omen
By Fribbit 2021-08-26 14:24:27
Consider getting an Iskur from Omen
I would, but unfortunately I can't really do Omen due to a combination of reasons(time, people, etc.) so it isn't really an option for me.
That goes for Dynamis-Divergence as well. So, that being said, I guess a lack of augmenting Ninja Nodowa +1 comes into play here as well.
Lakshmi.Buukki
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-08-26 14:29:50
My question is this, does Ninja Nodowa +1 beat out Moonbeam Nodowa(assuming everything else stays the same for simplicity sake) or vice versa for any of the sets listed in the guide(mainly TP and WS though).
Since you're probably not considering augments, it won't matter for WS. Nodowa is better for TP *if you don't need the ranged accuracy, but 20 is a nice chunk to consider if you are a little low on racc elsewhere. The dps difference is miniscule, and if you buy either you can sell them back for break even, so long as you don't begin augmenting the +1 JSE neck. Bonus to being able to wear Moonbeam across two other jobs for the same price/stats, so saves some inventory space if you haven't invested in those other jobs yet.
By Fribbit 2021-08-26 14:34:22
My question is this, does Ninja Nodowa +1 beat out Moonbeam Nodowa(assuming everything else stays the same for simplicity sake) or vice versa for any of the sets listed in the guide(mainly TP and WS though).
Since you're probably not considering augments, it won't matter for WS. Nodowa is better for TP *if you don't need the ranged accuracy, but 20 is a nice chunk to consider if you are a little low on racc elsewhere. The dps difference is miniscule, and if you buy either you can sell them back for break even, so long as you don't begin augmenting the +1 JSE neck. Bonus to being able to wear Moonbeam across two other jobs for the same price/stats, so saves some inventory space if you haven't invested in those other jobs yet.
Yeah, augmenting isn't really an option for me currently and I don't play MNK or SAM. JSE +1 sounds good to me. Thanks!
By Ruaumoko 2021-08-26 17:21:03
The Daken +% on the Nodawa should make it outright win, even the +1.
Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2021-08-26 18:39:04
No augment
Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk
サーバ: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1418
By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2021-09-05 21:15:34
Has anyone made a serous attempt at working out ninja tanking?
I wouldn't expect Yagyu Darkblade (though it would be fantastic)
but fudo masamune + tsuru + mpaca's set seems link a really good setup for tanking set.
Its more about working out the ja/ninjutsu rotation and subjob and enmity management styles.
It would be really interesting to see. my alt's ninja is not really ready yet methinks. but maybe I could work something out.
Lakshmi.Buukki
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-09-05 22:23:52
Me and Logical talked about this a half year ago. Even made length posts about it. I have done a lot of tanking on Ninja on various levels, but it's mostly built for fun.
tldr: literally, nobody (besides us) cares about Ninja tanking
Here's an all-purpose tanking set I have been working on that's not quite complete. Can improve in a few areas (cape can be HQ, the OH is only R4, and I am losing 50 HP from Tuisto Earring swap since I used it all between Tuisto+Odnowa +1 combo). I was inspired by Logical's video about Mpaca set, and noticed it has higher HP and defense than malignance, as well as killer stats. Started playing around with the new katana and then I decided to try out a new style of tanking on NIN. Full HP, PDT, Defense, no gear swaps Yonin shadow tanking. Just maintain high *** HP/DEF/Shadows and get curebombed while you spam shadows for hate
3900 HP, 2035 defense, caps PDT, 11% DT using 5/5 Yonin merits, Defender, Omelette.
Slightly modified set with a bit more HP and lower defense, Ashera for DT instead of PDT and more HP (44 MP from Ashera to make Tuisto Earring work, only 6 MP loss now), but puts you at 4100+ HP and caps MDT as well. This was as high as I could get it while playing around, but can break 4200 with HQ cape.
Decided to go mess around in in VD1 ambu to see how well the first set held up. Did good even after trusts died due to positioning. The intimidation was a nice touch. I wasn't swapping in empyrean feet or ambu cape for 2 extra shadows, was just staying locked into the set for the max HP boost. Can obviously do that for a tiny bit more damage mitigation in exchange for ~300 HP dips.
YouTube Video Placeholder
Edit: went back in today with dancer sub using the second set, and was basically able to hold these two mobs indefinitely. Dismissed the trusts and was able to continue tanking for another 7 minutes with just waltzes, shadows, and yonin (was mostly buffless during this time). Only risk is when Yonin gets dispelled. I think it could be a very effective tanking strategy to employ when you have multiple monsters constantly stripping shadows and need extra bulk HP to push through. Like that Mamool Ja (aura) ambuscade we recently had.
Great Analysis Buukki, strangely enough I built a similar set and tried this same thing last night on Normal. Was surprised at how well it did, the intimidation's were great. In the end the fight took me about the same time as it did in my Malignance setup but the fight seemed easier, just lower tp gain on average took getting used to but it seems the lack of need to continually recast shadows made some of that time back for me. Planning on trying this on Dynamis-D Wave 3 mobs next to see how we can do.
By SimonSes 2021-09-06 03:57:55
I care for Ninja tanking (Literally yesterday I was updating casting sets for tanking for few hours and not finished yet), but on the other hand I care for most jobs and builds XD
By alzeerffxi 2021-09-14 05:18:10
Ninja/rng hot shot build could work now i really think hmmm not sure any 1 tested?
By SimonSes 2021-09-14 06:37:46
For some weird niche use when target is really weak to fire? Not sure if Flamming Arrow wouldnt be better. Gun+Ammo is higher base damage, but NIN seems to have better selection of 119 bows than gun and arrows are 119 while highest bullet 115 I think?. Ullr or Raetic Bow vs Donar Gun.
By alzeerffxi 2021-09-14 09:41:00
yea can also use the ambuscade bow too,
By SimonSes 2021-09-14 09:44:56
yea can also use the ambuscade bow too,
Ullr is the ambsucade bow :)
[+]
|
|
