The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos

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The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos
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By Spaitin 2019-02-27 19:24:11  
Been running the Decimation build with the new kaja axe. Was wondering what buffs people have been getting the best results with. Specifically corsair rolls. Personally I have found sam/misers to generally be the best.
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By Asura.Saevel 2019-02-27 19:53:23  
SAM's / Fighters rocks for me, but I have sets that drop DA for Store TP if Fighter's is up.
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By Spaitin 2019-02-27 19:59:55  
I have found sam/fighters to also be very good. I do like the extra TP return with misers. I have noticed that with certain levels on sam roll, misers becomes somewhat worthless since overflow doesn't help. IDK. been kinda fun playing around with the new DW toy. Guess ill just stay greedy and run with two corsair until i figure out how i want to work things.
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By Spaitin 2019-02-27 20:06:03  
if you could post your DW STP set that you use for fighters roll, id like to try it out.
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By Asura.Saevel 2019-02-27 20:46:03  
Swaping out emicho body for Store TP, legs for the DA Damage+ or more Store TP from Odyssean. You can usually find a decent 15 DA to drop for more Store Tp / ect. The real bonus of Fighters Roll is that it push's up your average hits on WS since we're normally not capping DA there.
 Leviathan.Fiddle
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By Leviathan.Fiddle 2019-02-28 00:28:00  
ItemSet 365258

BEST SET looks stupid yes but if you wanna do 15k-40k Auto attacks trust me

if you have Indris GEO and a solid COR buffing you can hit 14k Consistently also with these you can reach that 40k

Double Attack JPS cape on WAR is dumb no reason to have 112% Double attack instead get the Crit hit RATE on war +10% don't believe me try it out
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By SimonSes 2019-02-28 03:30:33  
First of all I would like to say, that I support new ideas (tho this isn't new, but still niche), but I support providing full info instead of propaganda even more.

I'm trying to point out for a long time now, that despite (at least I think it is this way) the general believes of MNK being king of melee DPS, it was not the case for a long time. Now it kinda is, but only with very high amount of Impetus stacks. Without Impetus MNK is surpassed by at least Twashtar THF and Ukonvasara WAR, but probably also by Caladbolg DRK.

Ok, lets play MythBusters

Leviathan.Fiddle said: »
you can hit 14k Consistently
Going back to above set posted by Fiddle:
1. Base damage of Ukonvasara with capped fSTR is 399. Above set has (with traits/gifts) 24% critical hit damage. Max crit final ratio on WAR is I think 5,1975 (4.95 * 1.05, correct me if im wrong). Set has also Double Attack damage +31%. Finally there is damage * 3 from AM3 ODT. Let's leave * 2 damage from Empy +1 for now, because I believe it wasn't the part of 15k damage auto Fiddle mentioned but part of 40k autos, that he mentioned. So:

399 * 5,1975 * 1.24 * 1.31 * 3 = ~10100

So first propagada info busted.
You wont do 14k auto with this build, unless you fight enemy that takes 50% damage more from slashing. That was typical "My ultimate max is my avg" type of comment.

2. 40k crit...
Empy +1 set bonus is double damage on double attacks.

So we know that max without empy+1 proc is around ~10100, not 14k, so max with that proc is ~20k, not 40k. Another propaganda busted, but let's check how often will that even happen

Master WAR base crit rate is 20%. There is +17% in that set. Let's assume max ddex that gives +15%. So 52% crit hit rate total. Now let's assume fighter's roll so this build can actually cap Double Attack rate. ODT has 50% rate with AM3.
Set has 2 empy+1 pieces, so it's 2% chance for a set bonus proc.

0.5 * 0.52 * 0.02 = 0.0052, so 0.5% chance. Once per 200 rounds.

3.
Leviathan.Fiddle said: »
Double Attack JPS cape on WAR is dumb no reason to have 112% Double attack instead get the Crit hit RATE on war +10%

It's cool sentence. You pretty much call people dumb, while providing no details of your imagined 112% DA rate set. Let's check that out tho.

Your set has 50% Double Attack. Master WAR has 33% DA (with merits). That's 83% DA. So I assume, that this is your set that includes Fighter's roll, because otherwise I don't see your 102% DA rate with crit hit rate cape.

But if you assume Fighter's roll.. Fighter's roll with +7 phantom roll which should be considered minimum now for endgame is 32% DA with XI roll and 38% if CCed. So why are you overloading yourself with 83% DA in gear, when you only need 68%. Isn't that dumb by your standards?

You should switch feet to empy +1. That's +1% for set bonus and +11% critical hit damage.


Now I wonder if that build can actually reach capped attack without Chaos roll, because I assume you would want to use Samurai/Fighter? Or maybe you assume Chaos/Fighter and just forget about WS frequency, because melee dmg is high enough?

TL;DR
- ODT DA crits will do 10k, not 14k. Boii set bonus will make it 20k, not 40k. You will see that big damage once per ~130 rounds (assuming 3 Boii pieces)
- You need Fighting's roll to cap DA rate
- Use Boii +1 feet with Fighter's roll
- This set has up to 6900 DPS with just white damage and up to 8250 with Blood Rage up
- Is it competitive assuming you would TP to like 2000+TP before Upheaval? It might be. If I'm not mistaken it would around 8800 DPS when used like this and almost 10k DPS with Blood rage up
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By Spaitin 2019-02-28 05:19:17  
with that set it might be best to run fighters/rogues roll.
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By SimonSes 2019-02-28 05:26:34  
Spaitin said: »
with that set it might be best to run fighters/rogues roll.

Sure, but it would need to be a party just for WAR/s with this build, while Sam/fighter would work for other DDs too.
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By Spaitin 2019-02-28 05:31:50  
agreed.
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By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2019-02-28 06:04:01  
I made a little commentary video about the new Ambuscade Axe which seems to fit nicely with the recent discussion if people are interested:

YouTube Video Placeholder


Ironically, I spent the entire day farming a DW earring/Emi+1 hands only to not update my gearswap when I did NMs. Needless to say, the axe build is extremely OP atm and easily accessible to most to try it out!
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By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2019-02-28 06:04:53  
PS. I am working on overhauling the entire WAR guide to be more modern. It's an epic feat but I should be done soon.
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By Spaitin 2019-02-28 06:54:58  
i have found the axe to be very strong. I have broken down the offhand into three categories myself. kaja/digir for when you dont have fighters roll. Kaja/barbirty+1 for when you do and kaja/reikiko for when you are doing MS. fun stuff.
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By ocean 2019-02-28 06:58:44  
Ragnarok.Ejiin said: »
PS. I am working on overhauling the entire WAR guide to be more modern. It's an epic feat but I should be done soon.

Thank you! Much appreciated
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By Rixit 2019-02-28 16:02:51  
Everywhere I am looking at shows tier VIII Fencer, with Gear and JP, etc, the max is 10. Anyone done any testing to find out if 8 is actually the max and therefore useless to stack it to 10? Or if there is infact an unlimited cap (or atleast not known yet).

My limited tests personally, I haven't liked the results of Fencer 10 when using let's say, Savage Blade. Off hand, since I'm not on the game or looking at my sets, thinking that I lose some STR/MND to obtain that Fencer; in addition to maybe they aren't capped but the additional effects are diminished, and not linear?
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By Asura.Saevel 2019-02-28 17:00:08  
There is no such thing as Fencer "10", the highest is tier 8.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Fencer

Gifts are handled as a separate bonus.
 Fenrir.Skarwind
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2019-02-28 19:26:25  
I'm wondering what the next phase of these weapon s will have. Possibly an added effect or glow? Teaser shows a glow on the GAXE.
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By Bahamut.Lexouritis 2019-03-01 03:31:06  
Ragnarok.Ejiin said: »
PS. I am working on overhauling the entire WAR guide to be more modern. It's an epic feat but I should be done soon.

:o

Edit: Also, RIP. Video won't load diectly from ffxiah. Had the same problem with our recent Schah Vid. Have to go to youtube and watch it. Cool Vid :o
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By Lili 2019-03-01 06:09:43  
Asura.Saevel said: »
There is no such thing as Fencer "10", the highest is tier 8.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Fencer

Gifts are handled as a separate bonus.

I actually think it's simply that the table has not been updated, since war can do this:

Base: 5 tiers from job traits
+1 from Blurred shield
+1 from JSE neck
+1 from relic hands
+2 from empy legs

total 10. Granted, I don't know anybody that uses empy legs (me included), but Fencer 10 is achievable in gear, now. Unless you mean it caps at 8 no matter what?

I think the tp bonus values in that page come to testing that is prior to the release of relic hands and jse neck (definitely prior to the latter), and the only thing that's been updated in that page is the equipment list.

EDIT:https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ja&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.square-enix.com%2Fffxi%2Fthreads%2F353-教えて!開発さん!%3Fp%3D606774%23post606774

This says it caps at +8 indeed.
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By elliondrk 2019-03-01 08:01:37  
Bahamut.Lexouritis said: »
Ragnarok.Ejiin said: »
PS. I am working on overhauling the entire WAR guide to be more modern. It's an epic feat but I should be done soon.

:o

Edit: Also, RIP. Video won't load diectly from ffxiah. Had the same problem with our recent Schah Vid. Have to go to youtube and watch it. Cool Vid :o

<derail>

Your browser is probably blocking a script. For me, Chrome has a shield with a red x over it in the address bar when visiting this page. Clicking it and choosing "Load unsafe scripts" should allow it to play. I think that can be turned off somewhere in Chrome as well. Not sure about other browsers, however.

</derail> Super cool video and guidance. Definitely making the axe next month.
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By Spaitin 2019-03-04 04:43:31  
As powerful as Decimation is per WS. I have found that in high buff it is about the same as Resolution for DPS. Probably because you basically have to have 2 attack rounds with DW to get to the 1k TP mark. Where resolution inside of escha you have a high chance of just getting to 1k tp in 1 attack round. Reso also becomes extremely strong with warcry, which doesnt do much for decimation. So this is a cool toy. But it seems more like a different option to do about the same amount of damage. Most OP aspect of Decimation imo is the fact that it makes light with Savage Blade.
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By Asura.Saevel 2019-03-04 07:28:15  
Spaitin said: »
Probably because you basically have to have 2 attack rounds with DW to get to the 1k TP mark. Where resolution inside of escha you have a high chance of just getting to 1k tp in 1 attack round.

Umm your not getting TP in one round, it's actually two but since Resolution's animation is so long the first attack round has already happened while your still swinging. One attack round with Axe + Axe is 360 delay while one attack round with Montante +1 is 475, then there is the fact that the GS build will have 26 more Store TP on both TP and WS sets. Resolution also works much better with TP overflow, which WAR is going to have a lot of while being buffed (WS+3 at 100% DA means we'll rarely ever land on 1K), Decimation doesn't grow with TP while Resolution has near linear TP growth.

So yeah Kaja isn't going to be beating our best Resolution builds for DPS vomit, much less Chango madness. It's still very competitive and I wouldn't fault anyone for using it to change things up a bit. Check out the Kaja Lance and Impulse Drive, that also gets kinda silly.
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By Spaitin 2019-03-04 07:45:22  
I think i should clarify. I use sam/misers quite a bit. So with ideal crooked misers you are looking at 444 tp return on reso. With that you actually can get to 1k tp with 1 attack round without sams roll from extra hit from raetic. But this depends on the level of your rolls.
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By Spaitin 2019-03-04 07:46:54  
Sadly i built the dagger instead of polearm this month. Wanted to try it out on teles. Alas i will have to wait a month.
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By Asura.Saevel 2019-03-04 08:24:09  
Spaitin said: »
I think i should clarify. I use sam/misers quite a bit. So with ideal crooked misers you are looking at 444 tp return on reso. With that you actually can get to 1k tp with 1 attack round without sams roll from extra hit from raetic. But this depends on the level of your rolls.

I'm talking consistently which is averages, your talking getting 355 TP back and then hoping for a TA or Raetic proc, otherwise your waiting another attack round anyway for extra TP. Only issue I have with misers it that it's either an 11 or a complete waste of a roll because with SAM's I already get really high TP return on multi-hit WS's. Miser's becomes more important when your tossing around 1-hit WS's like Torcleaver, Samurai-Anything, ect. Those tend to only get 150~170 TP returned.

Montante +1 = 133 Base TP return.

Resolution is 5 hits and we should be procing at least one DA so six hits at +50 TP on top of base. Our Resolution gear naturally has around 46 Store TP (including weapon and sub). Non-cutting card 11 SAM's roll is +68, lucky is 60. That's 114 Store TP on 11, 106 on lucky.

For 6 hits
183 * 2.14 = 391 TP Return
183 * 2.06 = 376 TP Return

For 5 hits
173 * 2.14 = 370 TP Return
173 * 2.06 = 356 TP Return

Perfect 11 Misers is 355 Save TP, lucky Misers is 305 Save TP.

You get either your WS return or the Save TP value, whichever is higher.

Misers is basically wasted on Montante and Raetic setups, hell even Chango Upheaval setups. You would be better off using Fighters Roll to increase the number of MA procs during WS and potentially switch into more TP for bigger WS's.


Now to give you the perfect use case for Misers, lets take our powered up DRK rocking AG Caladbolg and Torcleavering stuff.

Caladbolg = 122 Base TP Return (yeah this is the issue with low delay weapons in general)

Torcleaver is one hit, DRK's don't wear MA and whatever little they did have would only get one roll, so it's safe to say no extra procs. They also don't WS in much Store TP so maybe 26 total (including sub) is present. Same SAM's roll as above for 68/60 Store TP.

122 * 1.94 = 236
122 * 1.86 = 226

Now we can see how awesome Misers becomes for them, it's about a 50% increase if TP return from their WS and mitigates the single biggest issue their build has. Samurai's Fudo is similar though because they naturally have a lot more Store TP it's not as big of an increase.

Spaitin said: »
Sadly i built the dagger instead of polearm this month. Wanted to try it out on teles. Alas i will have to wait a month.

You can build more then two, so far I have Kaja Axe, Kaja Polearm and Kaja Knife. Next up for me is Knuckles, Scythe and Sword.
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By Spaitin 2019-03-04 10:52:40  
.I typically go with a rostam cor. So perfect misers is 444 with crooked. 370 without. But i do agree that it does a bit better for torcleaver drk. it also is pretty nice for upheaval. but as i said. You can get your TP in 1 attack round with raetic. With that 444 from misers you only need 185 per hit and need 3 attacks in one attack round. With raetic inside of escha, you have a pretty solid chance of that happening .pulling out my old raetic TP set. with food you are at 905 MP inside of escha with 100% DA ( assuming sam/fighters). so a 45% chance of a raetic extra hit. then 10% TA and 3% QA. so 58% chance of at least 3 hits. (unless I am forgetting something basic. Happens.). which means you are more likely to get TP in one attack round than not. Assuming 5 hit reso with just regal lucky roll. you need 3 hits at 214 TP a hit. you will get considerably more per hit with raetic spam with sams roll. so on average it will be 1 attack round for TP. (assuming you include WS as part of that.)If i ever got around to maxing out my acro hands. It would be 48% chance of a raetic proc + the 10% TA + 3% qa. so you should pretty regularly get your TP in 1 attack round.


main="Raetic Algol +1",
sub="Utu Grip",
ammo="Ginsen",
head="Flam. Zucchetto +2",
body="Dagon Breast.",
hands="Sulev. Gauntlets +2",
legs={ name="Odyssean Cuisses", augments={'Accuracy+25 Attack+25','"Dbl.Atk."+5','Accuracy+7',}},
feet="Flam. Gambieras +2",
neck="Ainia Collar",
waist="Ioskeha Belt +1",
left_ear="Telos Earring",
right_ear="Cessance Earring",
left_ring="Niqmaddu Ring",
right_ring="Moonlight Ring",
back={ name="Cichol's Mantle", augments={'MP+60','Accuracy+20 Attack+20','MP+20','"Dbl.Atk."+10','Phys. dmg. taken-10%',}},
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By Jhawk27 2019-03-06 14:23:54  
Anyone willing to share their Mighty Strikes sets for Upheaval, Resolution, and possibly decimation if it applies?

I looked on the front page, which isn't up to date and skimmed through quite a few pages without finding much.
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2019-03-06 14:49:12  
For Upheaval I basically just go with my normal set but use Boi Feet+1/Yetshila+1.

Reso/Decimation require some crit dmg+ valorous.
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