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best sub for PUP
 Hades.Cruxus
サーバ: Hades
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11
By Hades.Cruxus 2010-03-19 16:24:55
Fairy.Basilo said: I know sub sch has been mentioned tons of times in this thread and no disrespect to Vegetto but I remember him saying PUP wont reliably sleep anything tough at the time I was 65ish PUP so I had to wait before I could test for myself how high a lvl mob I could handle. I swore I remember seeing a PUP/SCH solo Aerns the VT ones that drop the HQ organs.
Not hard to imagine, I've read on some forums that some ppl can pull off some decent solo farming in limbust pup/sch. Would be interesting to try given I ever feel compelled to lvl sch to sub lvl.
 Fairy.Basilo
サーバ: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 650
By Fairy.Basilo 2010-03-19 16:38:37
Hades.Cruxus said: Fairy.Basilo said: I know sub sch has been mentioned tons of times in this thread and no disrespect to Vegetto but I remember him saying PUP wont reliably sleep anything tough at the time I was 65ish PUP so I had to wait before I could test for myself how high a lvl mob I could handle. I swore I remember seeing a PUP/SCH solo Aerns the VT ones that drop the HQ organs. Not hard to imagine, I've read on some forums that some ppl can pull off some decent solo farming in limbust pup/sch. Would be interesting to try given I ever feel compelled to lvl sch to sub lvl.
True, but this particular thread mentions sub sch but hadnt mentioned to this point quite how high a lvl mob and how reliably. Im sure it is noted elsewhere on BG etc but I only use these ones.
 Gilgamesh.Lunatone
サーバ: Gilgamesh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 149
By Gilgamesh.Lunatone 2010-03-19 17:53:18
ive always used pup/drk in Pts and solo
サーバ: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10387
By Siren.Enternius 2010-03-19 17:56:10
Fairy.Basilo said: Hades.Cruxus said: Fairy.Basilo said: I know sub sch has been mentioned tons of times in this thread and no disrespect to Vegetto but I remember him saying PUP wont reliably sleep anything tough at the time I was 65ish PUP so I had to wait before I could test for myself how high a lvl mob I could handle. I swore I remember seeing a PUP/SCH solo Aerns the VT ones that drop the HQ organs. Not hard to imagine, I've read on some forums that some ppl can pull off some decent solo farming in limbust pup/sch. Would be interesting to try given I ever feel compelled to lvl sch to sub lvl.
True, but this particular thread mentions sub sch but hadnt mentioned to this point quite how high a lvl mob and how reliably. Im sure it is noted elsewhere on BG etc but I only use these ones. Anything below high-IT should be reliably sleepable. Meaning any normal mob and not NM. 256 base skill, and PUP gets mage gear, so a PUP can be just as accurate, if not moreso, than a BLM with sleeps.
サーバ: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3615
By Fairy.Vegetto 2010-03-19 17:58:04
Quote: ive always used pup/drk in Pts and solo Why?
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By semimmortal 2010-03-19 18:00:44
Fairy.Vegetto said: Quote: ive always used pup/drk in Pts and solo Why? I'm hoping it's sarcasm, otherwise IDK...
soul-eater and last resort? LOL
Only thing I can see it being good at would be at lower lvls for the attack-bonus for those who didn't lvl DRG.
Fairy.Basilo
サーバ: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 650
By Fairy.Basilo 2010-03-19 18:00:52
Pup/drk? O.O
Fairy.Basilo
サーバ: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 650
By Fairy.Basilo 2010-03-19 18:06:45
Siren.Enternius said: Fairy.Basilo said: Hades.Cruxus said: Fairy.Basilo said: I know sub sch has been mentioned tons of times in this thread and no disrespect to Vegetto but I remember him saying PUP wont reliably sleep anything tough at the time I was 65ish PUP so I had to wait before I could test for myself how high a lvl mob I could handle. I swore I remember seeing a PUP/SCH solo Aerns the VT ones that drop the HQ organs. Not hard to imagine, I've read on some forums that some ppl can pull off some decent solo farming in limbust pup/sch. Would be interesting to try given I ever feel compelled to lvl sch to sub lvl. True, but this particular thread mentions sub sch but hadnt mentioned to this point quite how high a lvl mob and how reliably. Im sure it is noted elsewhere on BG etc but I only use these ones. Anything below high-IT should be reliably sleepable. Meaning any normal mob and not NM. 256 base skill, and PUP gets mage gear, so a PUP can be just as accurate, if not moreso, than a BLM with sleeps.
Pup is not more accurate than blm with sleeps, im totally happy with it performing well on high VT low inc tough with normal magic def but its a bit off blm and always will be. My blm 297ish enfeeb with same 11macc 77+30ish int PUP/SCH has about same int lower based but more added, skill is like 20 less though. Also I forgot till i did it earlier sub sch doesnt give stoneskin / blink and only gives sleep one. Which is a bit of a bummer cos i only used to use sch for sj for rdm i forgot it didnt have these spells.
Lakshmi.Galvaya
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1489
By Lakshmi.Galvaya 2010-04-04 16:12:32
What is the thought of 75 PUP/DRG with the new B+ in h2h. Even without usukane, is it worth it to go haste setup now?
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15064
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-04-04 16:34:22
Haste build + pizza, war sub still wins though, not /drg.
Phoenix.Kojo
Forum Moderator
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 12308
By Phoenix.Kojo 2010-04-04 16:55:31
I usually use PUP/WAR. Solo with WHM puppet curing you. Not saying it's best, just saying that's what works for me.
Caitsith.Alriath
サーバ: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
Posts: 200
By Caitsith.Alriath 2010-04-04 17:06:37
Bahamut.Zarthinius said: alrighty, i do have pup leveled so i know what im talking about.
pup/war for soloing, you need provoke. make sure to use healer head and use dark manuver at start for blind
i used pup/thf for parties, i did decent dps,and at 75 you may wanna go with pup/sch, using blm and using sleep nuke technique
Even when you get howling fist I still wouldn't /thf. /war or /drg for parties.
[+]
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15064
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-04-04 17:39:43
Pandemonium.Spicyryan said: Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Haste build pizza, war sub still wins though, not /drg.
Not true, if you have dual haste from a BRD and haste from a RDM. With adequate haste gear and riding the jump timers, DRG will win.
You can sub DRG in the right setting but you will have to work harder. 4% haste (haste non usu build, you go from 21 to 25) brings pup a 10% increase w/ haste and dual marches to DoT and WS frequency. 10% DA alone from /war + brutal brings 115/105 = 9.5% increase to DoT, WS frequency, and also adds to direct WS damage.
So now we have Berserk vs jumps. Berserk takes the cake, easily there.
Caitsith.Alriath
サーバ: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
Posts: 200
By Caitsith.Alriath 2010-04-04 17:52:20
I'm pretty sure he's talking about 25% gear haste lol.
Caitsith.Alriath
サーバ: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
Posts: 200
By Caitsith.Alriath 2010-04-04 17:57:07
Quote: brings pup a 10% increase w/ haste and dual marches to DoT and WS frequency. .
Just a guess, but looks like he did the math and just didn't feel like posting it.
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15064
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-04-04 18:06:35
What? I accounted for haste all along. I never said 52-62% was a 10% increase. I was saying that 56 to 60 was a 10% increase.
Are you even reading what I'm writing?
Look, 21% haste in gear from non full usu haste build (goli body, swift, turban, usu legs, usu shoes, af2 hands).
21 + 35 = 56. Earring brings you to 25% haste in gear, 60% haste overall.
4/(100-60) = 4/40 = 10% increase. I accounted for haste buffs, if I had not, 4% haste wouldn't come close to being a 10% increase.
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15064
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-04-04 18:16:06
The reason why something like /drg is so attractive on sam is because
A) Berserk does little to nothing for y/g/k damage, due to their high attack boost.
B)Hasso, the addition of hasso increases gains from the earring. Pup does not get hasso.
Let's take a sam. Turban/dusk/vbelt/byakko/usu shoes. 21% haste, same spot as our pup. So now, instead of going from 56 to 60% haste, we're going from 66 to 70%
4/(100-70) = 4/30 = 13.33% increase, which is a good deal more of an increase to sam than it is to pup.
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15064
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-04-04 19:07:22
Quote: Not true, if you have dual haste from a BRD and haste from a RDM. You are now talking about a totally different situation. Dnc would be the deal breaker on drg sub or not. Note how you did not mention it earlier and any/all of my posts were directed with that comment in mind. That being said, rdm brd included, no dnc in the picture, /war is superior to /drg.
Quote: So other than the 60% or 70% haste /drg /war will be the bread and butter. I just wanted to argue /drg can be better than /war in certain situations. I never said it couldn't, but you outlined a very specific scenario earlier, and just changed your views in your last post.
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15064
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-04-04 19:09:47
On a side note, any job w/o hasso is such a waste of a dnc, since that 70~80% jump is monumental.
I currently have MNK and WHM for subs, NIN doesn't fly with me. People tell me SCH is pretty good.
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