Dev Tracker - Discussion

Lionheart - Run only

I have no faith what so ever...

I dont think that they'll make a run specific weapons but ragnarok willl be run, apoc drk, sword pld/blu/rdm etc. Same shape as relic but same jobs organisation on weapons as Aeonics.

Edit: unless they did show the relics only and still hide weapons for the toau and soa jobs buy i dont think so

Look, nobody is saying that PUP is meta and should be included in every setup. For the majority of its existence PUP has always been extremely niche and, frankly, underpowered. But it can still perform well and be useful in the right situations, so shitting on the job is completely unwarranted. Honestly, a lot of jobs could use adjustments these days anyway.

As for tanking being its niche use, that might be the case right now and it might not be ideal (though PUP is still a pretty decent DD), but what exactly is wrong with that? MNK and PUP work perfectly together for damageon Ngai while the Automaton holds the add. PUP is also perfectly capable of tanking Kalunga and Arebati even if you have to adjust the party to accomodate it—you still end up with a tank that needs zero healing support and doesn't have to worry about dispels. It's a safe and steady way to beat v20 and not something MNK could do.

Aside from that PUP can do respectable physical damage, but still swap to BLMaton to MB at will for content like Sortie or Omen. Or have an extra healer if your Dyna group is low on support, while still one-shotting most mobs with HF. No pet only groups needed.

Sure, it's undisputed that specialized jobs/setups are generally better, but this is still a game that is supposed to be fun. It's not just about beating everything slightly or moderately faster than the alternative.

I would rather guess, that WAR will be only on Gaxe and DRK only on Scythe. PLD only on shield. Meaning only RUN will be on Gsword.

I think every job will get a Primal, but none will get two.

Think you misunderstand my stance. The reason I say PUP is awful is simply because it is supposed to be a pet job, and the pet in this case is almost useless and worse than Trusts in most cases. I'm not saying that PUP cannot be used or anything like that. It's just that you have to jump through hoops to make it even remotely viable.

Most PUPs on this forum basically have to bot for the Auto to function as a DD. And, if you do not decide to go that path you have to sit in pet WS gear that marginally boosts your damage over your pet tp set.

The Auto needs a complete overhaul. The AI, frames, attachments, damage output etc are all awful. This is comparing the Auto to BST pets, and Avatars. The Auto is the only one that needs TP to WS, and despite that is the weakest of the three


All this is coming from someone that played PUP when it first came out, when it had C- h2h. Generally when people say something is terrible I will try to see if it is awful or it just the user. Aka I made Rag before Resolution, and was the first one to AG Claustrum on here.

Not really. I'm just directly disagreeing with several of the statements you made. It's not awful or a MNK-1, just non-meta like several of the jobs currently in the game, but the Automaton can still be decently viable if used well; the party doesn't always have to cater to you because PUP can sometimes cater to the party; there are situations where no other job is necessarily better than PUP (e.g. offtanking Ngai v20); the Automaton is not useless nor worse than Trusts in most cases and you do not need any kind of bots to make it useful as a DD.

I've also played PUP since around ToAU release and I've repeatedly adjusted to how it changed over the years. I also want the job to receive major buffs to make it more popular for groups, but it can still be competitive in its own right. You don't see me going around posting how awful it is, which feeds into people's misconceptions and anti-PUP stances. That just makes it even harder for other PUPs to actually get into content.

I'm gonna drop it here, though, since I don't want to sidetrack the dev tracker thread even more than this.

This is precisely what I'm hoping for myself! Gear that grants new job-specific specializations or enhancements have always been my favorite and helps break up the unga bunga focus of raw stats.

That said, I'm honestly most excited for instrument and shield. >.> The prospect of a new "ultimate" song to go along with Honor March is tantalizing to theorize over. And for shield, they must have something unique planned (I hope)... since we have Ochain's mega-physical focus & block rate, Aegis's ultimate magic mitigation, and Srivatsa's hybridness. Ailment resist shield maybe?

My tldr and my last post on the pup train is basically in my opinion PUP right now is the worst job in the game.

What it brings to the table in terms of damage and support is very low. With the addition of Naegling and master levels it further decreased the little support that it had. The function as an additional healer is basically obsolete by any mage job that subs white mage now with Curaga III.

Other jobs have limitations on what they can do, but the limitations are not with how the job functions, but in game mechanics(BLM MB wall etc). In the case of PUP the limitations are the core of how the job is designed, and the core has literally never been updated.

Damage output is for all pets really, BST got itself back into relevance because its has niche debuffs, aswell as the ability to finally give itself some buffs, noone is looking at the pet for meaningful dmg beyond some potential aoe cleaving. It's often a dps loss to even use a damaging ready move at all. While puppet is almost entirely independant beyond the initial fight command all pet jobs have to use, that along with it being the one most likely to get as close to capping its own haste(think only boar/garuda can do this on the bst/smn side) compensates it needing TP to fire off, even had the highest white dmg of the group for awhile, not sure if that's still applicable with all the dmg+ BST has been getting.

But until SE either re-examines pet rolls, lets pets get buffs like songs or gives buff items via pet food/oils etc. Or more simply gives players better hybrid/even pet specific gear that isnt just accuracies+50, along with a general dmg boost since player creep isnt stopping, pets are just going to continue to fall into irrelevance in their dmg output

This seems somewhat reasonable, but opens up some very eyebrow raising questions. The "orthodox" breakdown would prob look something like this, bolded ones are... pretty interesting.

H2H - MNK PUP
Dagger - THF DNC
Sword - RDM BLU
GS - RUN only?
Axe - BST
GA - WAR
Scythe - DRK
Polearm - DRG
Katana - NIN
GK - SAM
Club - WHM GEO
Staff - BLM SMN SCH
Bow - RNG
Gun - COR only?
Instrument - BRD
Shield - PLD

What the heck are they gonna do with Staff if they stick with the "typical" job distribution of BLM SCH SMN? Pet stats for SMN that will be irrelevant to BLM SCH? Different augment paths or second stage version to choose between a more nuke focused weapon and an alternate path with pet stats? I'm actually more curious to see what they do with staff than I am with any other weapon type (though I'm not necessarily optimistic it won't be a huge disappointment as usual for RMEA staves... but at least Su5 Musa was a semi-recent example where they did something pretty cool!)

Similar question for Club. If it has healing stats, does GEO just... get a superpowered healing weapon in addition to any luopon effects? Or do they just ignore Geomancy/luopons altogether and focus on stuff like cures (eww)? TBH, I wouldn't mind seeing something weird like GEO being the only job on shield and let PLD be on the sword or something. Maybe let BLU have a club this time or share it with WHM?

RNG only gonna get a bow? Strong enough to be worthwhile to use archery??? That better be one strong-*** bow! I think I'd be a little pissed to see the first type of RMEA (and Su5) where RNG doesn't get access to a marksmanship weapon.

Theyre just melee weapons. But new. There won't be any job specificness. They're just generic copy paste weapons. Cause that's the easiest thing to do.

I'd lean toward that being the unfortunately more likely outcome. Same jobs as relics (they love sticking to same jobs getting on the same model weapons from the past, as we've seen with a lot of Unity drops), just slap the post-ToAU jobs on there too on their most "obvious" jobs. BLU sword, COR gun, PUP h2h, DNC dagger, SCH staff, RUN GS, GEO club. If we're getting really spicy, maybe stick some of those jobs on a second weapon too (BLU club, COR sword or dagger, GEO shield).

But... they did put in some legit effort into C path Su5 weapons to make them tailored a bit to different job aspects, almost Mythic-like. That gives me some hope. But that also makes me think they've already "been there, done that" somewhat recently, so perhaps we aren't getting any more thoughtful job-specific pieces this time around. Guess we'll see soon enough.

People are failing to see the most obvious answer in the room.

Augments.

Weapon is generic, augments make it special. Done and done.

Thats the hopeful assumption, if it is the route they go i hope it wont be another nyame even though i assume it will be

There's no perfect way of having "unique" weapons (which I 100% doubt are the design intention for these things but anyway) when there isn't one tailor made for every job.

Augments could potentially make unique job specific bonuses for us to choose, but then you're potentially stuck with BLU augments on a sword that PLD and RDM can also wear.

Most likely these will be more generic weapons like Aeonics/Empyreans/Relics rather than job specific boosters like Mythics/SU5.

I’m personally hoping the job distribution is closer to ambuscade weapons. We already have had hyper specialized weapons for 20 years. Let us have something good for when we have to shift damage types like in Sheol, or those dancers want KRT MLS.

As long as I can trade mine to a moogle somewhere to use relic ws on my already good weapons, I'll be happy.

If they really end up being something special (assuming like aeonics they will start at base ilvl +269 skill) It would be cool if they made an alternative quick path to the REM 75-119 grind to level the field a bit.

They havent with Aeonic, why would they now?

Also relic WSs on other weapons would be really weak. Beside Cata and Coronach utility (tho you would still want Coronach with Anni anyway) other would be only weak skillchain properties fillers.

Skillchain prop fillers are what I'm most excited about! Scourge > reso/dimi > dimi/scourge, or kotr > Savage > cdc/kotr, depending on if they give us the relic weaponskill via a new source or buff those weaponskills with prime, I'm seeing this as a pretty big deal for some classes and their ability to multistep.

Depends how they plan to tackle those WS' presuming theyre on those weapons to begin with, do we just get a II variant or are they going to give us a similar WS boost or will it be something entirely different

The fact that they specifically skipped over Final Heaven when they were updating Hand-to-Hand weaponskills (and later stated that any changes to Relic WS properties would be done as a whole, and not a single ws even if the entire line of weapon's skills are being fixed) leads me to believe they are going with a II version of weaponskills, with different modifiers or properties. Otherwise, they risk completely invalidating the entire line of Relics.

There is like no way stronger relic WSs will be on Primals. It might be same animation, but stats will be completely different. Keep in mind they said Primals will be on par with REMA, not stronger, so for sure they wont have stronger versions of same WSs. They might have stronger WSs in general, because SE sucks at balancing, but it wont be anything that is straight up upgrade of the same.

But you see, you have to have the original relic to make these new relics!

Revives old content, inflates the market, and gives you new goals, plus makes you go back and do more trials of the magian!

They have already said you don't need Relics to make Primals, so no.

This is the 1st time were getting a different version of same weapon, better versions apparently, so can't be sure. I'd find it odd for them to just flat out invalidate relics but at the same time I dont see them making new WS' either, hence the II variant, anythings possible really.

All they have to do is just revamp the stat modifiers on some of them and give it a darker aura. Give monk a darkness option. Etc Add a random additional effect debuff that’s worth using.

“PrimeAegis- Additional effect: blocked attack: flash”
“PrimeKatana- Additional Effect: silence”
“PrimeH2H- Counter: occasionally attacks twice”

most will completely ignore the same garbage WS stats if they just add a couple of unique element to it and make them interesting.

PrimeSycthe - Cata now drains HP from undead!

Cata now restores HP of your party members too, so DRK can main heal if status effects aren't a big issue.

Make no, but what about upgrade steps?

I think we know how accurate translations from the Dev team always are when they are trying to be subtle.