Question For All The PUPs.

Just got done tab farming with a PUP I know. He good at his job, and honestly, he seems to be one of the very few PUPs who know how to play it.

But.

He sent me a tell later complaining that he de-leveled while trying to skill up his Automaton. This guy de-levels a *LOT*. I'm talking, 5 times a week, probably. I then asked him, "What do you consider a buffer and why don't you have one?" His response : "10k. And I'm a PUP. No one cares about us. No one invites us to parties."

I'm sorry, but...

What?

I was going to post this on KI, but the intelligence level on KI is absolutely absurd, so, I'm asking you ffxiah.com, and to all the other PUPs. Now, before you read too much into this, it's a simple question. I'm seriously trying to figure out what's wrong with the majority of the PUP community. Maybe it's just Asura.

Why do you level the job, then complain about not getting anything from the community?

I think the thing that people don't understand is that PUPs who stand there and play the "Oh, woe is me" game seriously ruin it for other PUPs who are actually GOOD at their job and who actually understand how to play it correctly.

This other PUP I knew would complain that no one would take him in merit parties, Nyzul, etc... Yet, PUP is his only 75. And I asked him why he doesn't level anything else. His response : "I'm not going to level something just to get accepted into the community."

... yet... He complains that he's not getting accepted.

I'm so confused... (Help me out!)

Lolpup.

/endthread

Doesn't matter what type of job you have you should always have a buffer (18k is my minimum)

The party thing is true, i levelled 1-75 with only 3 random party invites, rest of the way was FoV and ls party's (which tbh was to make up the numbers)

I disagree with the merit party thing though, a good pup is awesome in a merit party. Fair enough, in Nyzul, people use a "tried and tested" party setup most of the time, so no suprise's at no invites for that.

My guess would be he hasnt got his PUP skilled enough to use the high damage moves (Armour Piercer, Tier-IV spells etc) and thats why he cant get into partys, its like when you look for members- you always remember bad players in merit partys, not the decent one's.

No offence to your friend btw. Just my Guess on his situation.

No one wants a pup in their pt, though I do love them in East Ronfaure[S] pts.

Also no one wants a blu, drk, smn, drg, mnk, thf, pld, nin,rng sch, dnc or whm.

My friend just reached 75 pup, and although we tease him about it, I truly am interested to see it in action, since he hasn't shown me much. He is the same way when it comes to complaining though.

Also, my take on merit pts with pup is this: There are good and bad of all jobs. The problem is though, for example, is that no one really knows how a pup works, and won't know for sure if they can pump out the damage. "A bad sam is still better than a good pup" - I've heard this alot. This I highly disagree with. The people that say that are the people that play sam, which frankly, is quite alot easier to play than pup. ALOT.

Edit:

What?

I personally don't give a ***if I'm invited to a party or not, I solo on PUP 85% of the time. The few times I am in a party, I use RNG frame.

It's the stigma of lolpup that these idiots keep in their tiny minds that keeps them away from us PUPs. But any job can be lol if there are enough idiots leveling it.

Theres very few good PUP's out there to prove the point of how much damage they can do, mine aint fully merited yet so i cant say, but i do know someone who, if you watched what he can do with his PUP, you'd be amazed.

Looking at him was the main factor i levelled PUP in the 1st place.

I think this is solely because there aren't many pups in general.

I'm gonna do great things!

^^ This

Is how lolPUP began......

I got teased etc, but im 75 now, and can do just as much damage as a SAM.

Just back playing today after having to work away, and was on PUP for 5 hours- loved it!!

PUP FTW

I sure hope someday the stigma is gone. Unlikely considering all the mmos I've played theres always a loljob.

Sure, I'll tease him about PUP but it's all jokes. And he knows that. But, for the other "LOLPUP," I really can't speak for them. I honestly think, and also fully stand by this, the only reason the majority of the people lolPUP is because there's too many people leveling it that are doing it wrong or are very immature about it and who are also 'in your face' about it. I'll agree whole heartily, PUP is a very hard job to play because there's so many different ways to play it. There is no one set way to play the job like most others, and I think that's what turns a lot of people off.

HELL YEAH!!!

If SE allowed us to switch automaton types/attachments via macro's (like equipment) PUP would be VERY powerful,

That to me is the only downside to playing PUP.

Dunno if anyone remembers this, but I think SE F'ed up when they nerfed this

Jesus Christ, what frame was used O.o?

Yeah SE nerf'd it, Magic Mortor only does the damage based on what hp the PUP is missing now.

If your a good PUP your mage automaton should always have full hp >.>

So its useless now lol

The blm one ;O

That light is just rediculous...and a PUP CLOSED IT (well, his/her automaton)

Doesn't the Dyinyinga take 25% more Magic Damage? Lol

Isn't Magic Mortar magic based, too?

Skillchains are also magic based. xD

Alright... subtract 25% and it's still a helluvalot of damage

I'm still impressed.

Like I said, I'm not bashing or loling PUP, just trying to understand what goes on in the 'other' PUP's heads when instances like that happen earlier.

Dont get me wrong, it can still be done but very risky, If it was that scenario again i'd say Magic Mortar would hit for 1k (based on 25%hp and 200+tp) and the sc close for 1.5k (ish, however, as you have to use a light maneuver to force the automaton to use Magic Mortar now- 9/10 the AI of the automaton will cure itself.

Unless you use the Spiritweaver Head- thats the risky part :(

How to identify a lolpup:

1) Does he wear his full AF at any time because it looks so "pretty"?
2) Is he wearing STR-rings for TP-ing?
3) Does he use PUP-Stun? (Does he know it? -.-)
4) Does he have all essential attachements?(At least Turbo Charger and Tranquilizer at 75)
5) Does he use maneuvers at all? (one maneuver at a time counts as "No")
6) Is he using Stormwaker frame with valoredge head fulltime for "mainhealing" or soloing?(farming is ok)
8) Does he use full Valoredge in parties?
7) Can he answer questions about the automaton's behavior without rapidly logging off??

If you look at a PUP and you answer theese questions you can make sure to slap him to hell or cheer him.

Speaking as a 75 pup, it starts at a big disadvantage as far as merit pts go. Merits generally have 1-2 buffers. The automaton will not benefit from any rolls/songs that would be used in a merit pt so let's say you're 60% of the damage, and the puppet is 40% of your damage. The other DDs, get 100% benefit from their respective buffs while the pup gets 60% of the total benefit since it only applies to 60% of his damage.

When a large portion of your damage comes from a source that the buffs won't apply to, it'll hinder you as compared to someone who gets all of the benefit from the same buff.



I don't see where she was coming from w/ drg, but I generally don't care for rngs in my party. SCH is one of the last jobs I'd invite to a merit. I'd rather have a dancer. Sch has no form of haste. enspells won't make up for that. Whm dnc rdm smn all have some form of haste and will be better in a merit party than sch.

The problem with pup is, it is not so obvious what it can do for ppl that haven't played it. From the new jobs PUP, SCH, DNC, BLU and COR PUP is the one with the widest range of possibilities in battle (in comparison to BLU it is of course argueable). On all jobs i just listed except pup it is clear what role they roughly fill in a party.

SCH: Healing or Nuking (obvious because of Light + Dark Arts)
COR: Buffer + DD (Access to slug shot and the rest is all about buffs mainly)
DNC: Healing and debuffs (Thats what all abilities are about, obvious again)
BLU: I-can-take-care-of-myself-DD (lot of spells for damage mitgation, healing etc.)

Now try to describe PUP. It would be something like:
PUP: healing + nuking + debuffing + DD + specialities of PUP

That's a wider range than on other jobs. So for outsiders or newbies it is hard to clarify what we actually do... tho pup is out since a long time and it should be already known what it is capable of...

To the topic-starter's friend:
For skilling up the best is going PUP/WAR or PUP/DNC with an evasion-set. Luckily evasion-pieces are far from being expensive for PUP. Go to Kuftal Tunnel or the Boyahada Tree, that should do it.

PUP is a job that can only really be appreciated by playing it. Granted mine's only level 11, I understand the kind of work that goes into playing it effectively. The intense amount of micromanagement is absurd. Especially for such an uncontrollable reaction, it can be very frustrating. I don't envy PUPs their jobs, but the kind of stigma they receive is unwarranted.

Thats argueable. You're exchanging Haste for Stoneskin, phalanx, +7 STR (Stormsurge) and enspells. I find myself as SCH more usefull than on DNC in terms of merits (having bird camp in mind). Besides DNC does not have anything for sleep, WHM lacks in mp after a while (there are some awesome whms out there yea.. but we are not talking about exceptions) and in terms of SMN it is kinda obvious that CC will be a problem. SMNs Cure-tier is low aswell, it will have problems keeping up the HP in dangerous situations and im not counting in the dangerous timegap you have when /startsummon -> /endsummon. Unless you want to let a BRD handle CC completly and totally depend on him you better go with rdm or sch, IMO.

Oh, it's very warranted, and this is speaking as a lv 75 pup. It's warranted exactly for that reason, it takes an absurd amount of micromanagement, and 90% of the people who play the job will not put that kind of effort into playing.

Whm/sch can do just as well, if not better than RDM as far as merits go, especially birds for esuna on wivres. SCH may have more mp management, but whm will make up for it because of haste. Haste = mob dies faster and therefore does less damage to the party before dying, requiring less heals.

All your DDs being hasted is going to be a MINIMUM of 21% increase in kill speed, kill 21% faster, get exp 21% faster. This is with low haste builds on each DD and no marches.

If we go to a party w/ double march and each DD having 17% haste in gear
17 + 11 + 9 + 15 = 52 haste
15/(100-52) = 15/48 = 31.25% increase in killspeed and exp.
I honestly can't see myself in a party w/o haste. SCH isn't on the list of jobs I would even consider for a merit party, unless it was a personal friend of mine I was trying to help get their level.

Stoneskin the 7 str ext, none of that will come close to a 21-31% increase in killspeed.

Exactly. Some ppl say Ninja is hard, because you need the equip to keep shadows up, but this aint hard because it is a situation where money comes into play and time, not skill. Some ppl say Rangers are hard to level, because you need to farm a lot for money if you don't have enough for your arrows, but that's gil, not skill.

On PUP all depends: you need to give your automaton the right command in the right time, calculating factors like enemie's HP, own HP, tanks HP, behavior-changing attachements, combination of Maneuvers, used Frame, used Head, mob's weaknesses when using magic (because it restricts you to certain spells), own debuffs and many more in to make sure your automaton does what you want. No other job has to look on so many things than a PUP, which gives us a clear advantage, because most DDs don't even know whats going on.