PLD VIT+Enmity = What?

I get snatch morsel'd more than the paladins in my parties just because of my polearm. 3-4 stacks should be enough for a 1-2 hour party since hate usually bounces. If it doesn't, get new DDs.

Flourish has 3/4, jig has 1/4, hence flourish/jig = provoke.

And you read the part where you're main tanking COLI'S right? The thing that constantly eats your TP? You must have incredible luck or a kc to be getting that kind of tp every fight.

For reference, /war is 3 more str than /dnc. And hi2u acc bonus and quick/box step. What is the etc etc btw? Those two things are just about it.

If hate bounces get a new pld o.o lol like i said point of pld is to hold hate, in a non brd pt I only lose hate to sidewinder or if a DD opens with a WS (which is what cover is for and hopfully they turn around to lose hate). If you got a brd you probably don't need a pld just DD to /nin and bounce hate.

Curing isn't a hate tool because 90% of the time I had to fulltime berserk just to take enough damage to use my NORMAL cures on myself, or anyone really. Doing more damage > crappy cures that lower your damage by 90000billion.

Colibri hit for air, that's why I don't get how people are being assraped by flurry :/

Stop fighting lesser at level 54 and normals before 63...

Hate is going to bounce in a bird party a bit, there is NOTHING that can be done about that. Unless, of course, your DDs suck.

I got a WS in per fight because I made sure to not cheap out and ate food, I had a bard or COR giving ACC, and birds tend to eat food or eat your face in more often than tickle. If your bird gets more than 2 WSs off, maybe you should have given a ***about your PLD enough to do a decent vorpal blade. It's not hard to hit 400+ in an EXP PT.

Then that's just your situation really. If you're so low that you need berserk just to take extra dmg, you're either doing mid-low VT mobs or you have a brd giving carnage 100% of the time. But not everyone has a brd all the time and the high VT/low IT range will give you better xp generally. You work with what you got but that doesn't make /war better 100% of the time.

And unrelated, but just for reference, looked it up, flourish = 5/6 provoke, jig = 1/6.

Like I said, you must just be getting lucky or losing hate constantly then, 1/3 chance of getting tickled and depending on speed of killing, 3 ws a fight is perfectly doable. This isn't fricking greater coli merits where mobs die in 10 seconds flat. And what, just 400? I've hit some 800 dmg vorpals /dnc, lol.

Just curious, but why the heck would anyone exp WITHOUT a bard or corsair when they're so useful and common? Maybe it's just midgard, but there's always a *** lfg.

Well, normally if I search inv brd 41-74 during jp prime time hrs, I have about a 50% chance of seeing a brd seeking. Cor is nice but elegy really is a deal breaker.

Maybe jp's just all finished lvling brd already or something, lol.

I've taken pld/drg/sam to 75 and are doing war/rdm atm through aht urgan (not lolqufim/smn burn). I was lucky to have a brd or cor 50% of the time. No there are not countless brds to match 1 to every pt. Some days are better than others, sometimes you can sit there waiting for a brd to pop on to make that awsome pt for hours, during which time you could have made 20k exp in non-brd pt.

I don't blame ppl for wanting brd in pt but to expect it to EVERY pt you join is amazing for me lol From my experiance there arn't that many around.

I wanted to do some math for DD vs turtle, and i'll say now my math isn't that great so flame me for it if it's flawed lol This is just to calc the enmity of taking dmg from melee hits VS dealing dmg from melee hits, to show the difference between DD and turtle pld. No JA's/spells/WS's.

Let's assume the following:

-You have 920 hp as pld in DD gear.
-You have 1k hp in turtle gear.
-You take on average 120dmg per hit(beserk up).
-You take on average 80dmg per hit(defender on).
-Your melee does 60dmg a hit(beserk up).
-You melee does 40dmg a hit(defender on).
-The Lesser Colibri is level 64.
-You are level synced to 55.
-DD pld has no +enmity gear on and no +enmity merits.
-Turtle pld has +20 enmity gear and no merits.

Everytime a colibri hits you in DD gear you lose (120*1.957) 234 CE. If you change to turtle gear and use defender you lose (80*1.800) 180 CE per hit.

That's about an 23% decrease in enmity loss per hit in turtle gear/defender on as opposed to DD gear/berserk up.

Everytime you hit the bird in DD gear you create (60*1.778) 106 CE. If you change to turtle gear you would create (40*1.778) 71 CE. Now to add in enmity+; 71*(1+20/100)= 14 CE, so 85 CE per hit in turtle gear.

That's about a 20% loss in CE generation from melee when in turtle gear/defender instead of DD gear/berserk.

So overall (w/o taking hitrate into consideration) a turle pld will hold hate 3% better using conservative figgures. Obviously hitrate will bring DD pld out on top but there are other things to take into consideration; MP usage.

Assuming you get hit 10 times per fight:

DD pld will take (120*10) 1200dmg. It will take ~3 cure4's (at ~350) per fight. That's 264 MP.

Turtle pld will take (80*10) 800dmg. It will take ~2 cure4's, 176 MP. so you can save about 80mp a fight.

Whether MP is an issue or not comes down to individual party, i'm just pointing out how it can affect a pt.

I'm not for or against either method of tanking, each has it's merits. Which one is better comes down to the variables in each party. Anyways, feel free to tear me up if my math is wrong lol Just wanted to give it a go.

There is the problem :x Those figures are a bit unrealistic, especially in the case of the melee hits (+25% atk => -25% atk is going to be a HUGE difference).

I'm tired and could say more but :( bed time!

Lol yeah I wasn't sure on the numbers but couldn't find any parse data to work with. But meh so long as the concept is right i'd be happy x.x

In the end DD Paladin will hold hate above a turtle Paladin :x also you need to calculate increase in damage (both through damage you cause and ability of the DDs to generate more "reckless" damage) as a function of exp/hr... this latter thing is quite complicated to do!

Even the most extreme dd paladins aren't going to tank with berserk up. That moves you out of the realm of "DD Paladin" and into the realm of "Terrible Player" A dd paladin might pop berserk to enhance the damage of a single weaponskill, and cancel it immediately. Assuming they would be so foolish as to fulltime berserk badly skews the numbers in favor of the turtles.

Any Pld currently leveling worth their salt, especially in the birds phase of leveling should be voking/sentinel/rampart/curing in macroed in enmity gear. Flashing, casting reprisal in haste gear, and meleeing in DD gear. Berserk is a pop and drop ability to be used with weaponskills. If you're fulltiming zerk, youre taking a hell of alot more damage and thus completely mitigating the few points of enmity youre getting from the extra attack on your melee hits.

And yes, i just tested this theory 3 days ago in a sync'd level 62 pt on birds.

3 stacks of crab sushi and 2 stacks of tav tacos for an hour~ish pt says otherwise. Albeit a syncd level 62 as reference. At 75, if youre meriting, COMPLETELY different story.

cure cheat sets

Yes, I'm going to cure cheat set before level 75 in an exp party.

Please kill me now.

I'm sure GM Dave would oblige.

Sure, fine, close enough anyway.

As stated above. No one full-times zerk. Difference in damage taken would be no where near this large.

So much wrong here. First, the primary difference between DDing build and turtle build is accuracy. Even the best DDing builds generally will have a hard time reaching 95% accuracy in many camps. Assuming 40 accuracy difference and 1 acc = .5% hitrate, that's a loss of 20% hitrate for turtle build.

Second, turtle builds hit for far less than 40 in defender (when they actually hit). I'd put this closer to single digits or low "10s."

So let's say ~40 average DD damage vs. (15 * 0.8) = 12 average turtle damage. So more like 70 CE vs. 25 CE.

No reason for me to argue this.

Only other thing I will say is that while both builds have equal opportunity to dish out nice vorpal blades when TP is available, a turtle build will basically never see this happen due to tickle, while a DD build will get some off because they will reach 100% faster and will beat the bird to the punch occasionally.

EXP Paladins are played completely different than Endgame Paladins.

A decent leveling combination of gear is to go with Accuracy Body, Belt, and Rings. Haubergeon, Jaeger/Ulthalam/Life belt is a good combination. The haste bonus from swift belt isn't a significant advantage imo. People are welcome to test the living crap out of this with their statistics but I can tell you from personal experience. I leveled PLD and always had our THF SATA our WHM for shits n giggles because I hated waiting for SATA. I never lost hate. Granted, things started to get different around 70+... *** grinding PLD in "merit parties".

Flash and Provoke are still your primary hate tools. Treat your weaponskills like a free voke/flash approximately twice every three fights.

The idea is to hold hate long enough (without taking too much damage) before one of your primary DDs rip hate just before the mob dies.

Honestly, if you hold hate 80%+ of the time, you're doing just fine. It doesn't hurt to let the DDs get a few shadows taken down versus taking a few hundred points of damage to get healed, so don't assume you're a bad tank just by trying to be MP efficient to maintain longer chains.

Oh and one last thing. /BLU is pretty worthless in endgame. It looks great on paper but believe me, there is nothing worth supertanking where /BLU is truly a big benefit. Even Divine Might, a /war tank is nearly as good as far as defense goes. The difficulty with /BLU is cocoon takes forever to cast so unless you plan on supertanking for approximately a minute and some change, you're better of going /war and popping an un-interruptable Defender. Wasting 10-15 seconds attempting to recast Cocoon getting interrupted by multiple targets isn't worth a consistent fulltime Defender.

Btw, endgame subs involved:
/NIN, pretty much your default endgame subjob
/RDM, for solo and distance tanking (ie Jailer of Love)
/DRK for maximum hate spam kiting King Behemoth
/WAR for Dynamis and Super tanking only

Keep in mind, most kiting will involve /NIN and spamming cure kits and such. King Behemoth gives you such a huge area to kite in that /DRK would be the ideal subjob. You can easily outrun Meteor.

I would play PLD the same way again as well, even if it's the old school version of VIT/DEF/HP/some AGI. A dear friend of mine tutored me in the PLD ways, and I like to honor his teachings ^^;

I even still wear my Pennon Earrings. I'll probably break the set when I get a Knight's earring. Until then, WHEEEEEEEEEE~ wing-shaped earrings~!

*Realises this set needs more VIT...*

When will people realize the correct answer is to have both gearsets? There's no single magical gearset that works for all situations.

Hardly taking damage? Swap in DD gear. Taking too much? Swap in turtle gear. Adjust as the situation requires. A big part of being good at the job is the ability to adapt.

Post 55+ though, if you absolutely NEED to turtle up fulltime, you need a better camp.

That said, if you're a diehard turtle fan, please please PLEASE at least macro in acc/atk for vorpal.

oh wow that's disgusting

brb being sick

gj if this is a troll set though

double post

Yeah I can't even think of a situation you'd use that as an actual set. Most of the gear is only good in different situations, not at the same time.



Except for knightly mantle, since it's never good. Ever. That thing is a damn plague, like shinsoku, domaru, and barone body lol

Because most of them suck and don't know how to play the jobs right.

Of course I've got an attack set as well. And a set with maxed Enmity.

My playstyle, my rules!

Let's see how sick I can get you... I prefer to use Savage Blade over Vorpal Blade. Atonement can kiss my metal Adaman-plated ***. In exp parties, I use Sentinel+Flash+Provoke to create a hate spike when needed. And people should realise the real task of a Paladin. It's not to serve as a DD. You're supposed to tank a mob, keep the party alive, while making sure you stay alive as well. VIT+Enmity > ATK. Clearly you don't use or see that, else you wouldn't be buying all those Hi-Potions. And if you don't care about that... you're an anti-social [swear word].

People take the term "DD PLD" way too litteraly. It's not about putting up huge numbers and doing the most damage. But it is about doing what you can while still mitigating damage and keeping the party running smoothly. If you CAN do more damage without creating downtime, you should.

More damage makes stuff die faster, plain and simple. Faster kills = more exp/hr, and exp/hr > all in an exp pt. You're not taking 'too much' damage until it hurts your exp/hr.