Armageddon Vs. Gandiva

This is assuming your cor is perfectly geared and has the +2 boots. also there is nothing stopping a rng from /rdm if they wanted to (although /sam is my preferred choice). If the Cor is perfectly geared and utilizes all of its buffs correctly (fire shot w/ +2 boots, MAB roll ETC..) then yes chances are it will out damage a rangers wildfire but not by much assuming the rng is perfectly geared for the ws as well.

I'll explain in more detail why I think Yoichi/Arma is the best combo.

A rng is supposed to have both a gun and a bow.
Gandiva out of the four has something the others have not: a ws with low enmity(albeit arma's is variable). Even if there are ways to manage hate, I think this can still be considered something that Gandiva is lacking. Namas arrow is also a strong ws, therefore as for bow I'd chose Yoichi.
Now you need a gun. The reason I say Arma is pretty simple: it also gives you a choice when physical damage is not reliable and you want magical damage. Since the bow is good enough for physical damage, might as well get a magical counterpart.

As for 'easyness' of making them, relics are the quickest and easiest to obtain. I'd rank Arma third and Gandiva last place due to Bhukis crap(even more of a reason to not chose it).

That being said, they're all good weapons, I'm in no way saying that any of them is worthless.

Edit: also arma and yoichi have multijob utility! :p

At this point in the game, a cor wildfire should easily outdamage a rng wildfire, even without being "perfectly geared." Not like its difficult at all to gear corsair, sedna is a joke for +2 boots. Even a "poorly geared" corsair still has fire shot and a MAB roll.

a.) Relics are far harder to get then emps.

b.) Depends on the event. long fights? both relics win hands down. Short fights? gandiva wins. Need magic damage? armageddon wins.

c.) I agreed that if you want to be a career rng. Yoichi / Armageddon would probably be the "best" but thats only because i am biased towards bows. If you actually think about it for a little bit, relic gun vs bow, they fill the same spots and gun is considered to be better / more damage.

I disagree. Farming currency is so easy now, it takes much less time than those annoying pops->nms.

Finish a Relic in 2-3 days, then come back and say that

100% disagree, I'm currently farming currency every day for another Relic. It is mind numbingly boring to dual box. I can get a couple hundred coins per run but thats still 75+ days of dynamis.

thats assuming you have 150mil~ to throw around. starting from scratch, that is much harder for most people to do then emps.

is not faster then emps.

As much as some of your comments in this thread make sense, you seem to have completely missed the point of the job to begin with but you also seem to be totally oblivious about how this game is after level 55.

It's 2011, I would advise you to catch up about game mechanics, the 2006 brady guide you are using is outdated.

On topic:

Gandiva or Yoichi depending on your situation, but certainly not some ***like Armageddon, really.

Gandiva on worms in La Theine is quite possibly the most fun I've ever had xping.

On the other hand, the fact that xping on worms is the only real fun thing I can think of using my Gandiva for should tell you something.

This is true right up until you look at the 95 versions. If all you care about is getting some sort of functional product then yes, Empyreans are easier, but getting a current weapon and looking forward to 99 reverses that trend.

eh, i can see that being a valid argument as it stands right now. If SE does decided to continue with the current heavy metal plate theme, we should see linnin style plate purses eventually, which would help.

some people still believe that 1500 plates is a placeholder, i think SE is just that sick.

Just cause I said 'suicide tool'? It was just a dramatic exageration.
The 4 are all as powerful, just Gandiva is short of one thing. Unless you tell me that Jishnu puts Coronach, WF and Namas to shame(but I honestly don't think it's the case), there's not much point in chosing it other than the awesome coolness.
I never claimed that the enmity- is the musthave thing anyway, just a bonus.

I think people missing the point of why Empyreans are made faster. Abyssea lets you say stay in for an unlimited amount of time whilst Dynamis can only be done 2 hours a day. The Empyreans can definitely be finished faster due to that, but do you actually spend less hours doing it?

lol good point

I think something is going wrong if RNG do 400ish dmg with Jishnu's on Voidwatch. Ok, it depends on the NM but still hard to belive.

I use Harrier+2 (so not even gandiva) and never got that low numbers. Even on Kaggen (Tier 3 Jeuno Path) i was getting dmg of anywhere between 700-1700 and i don't even have a Gandiva + my gear still misses alot. Used Red Curry buns.

Also on the few occasions i tested Decoy Shot it seems to help alot. Even did JR->JR-> light sc w/o pulling hate once.

But 400ish with a Gandiva? something's wrong there i'd say.

maybe they meant 4k?

This is so very true.. was working on an LS mate's 85 almace trial, and did like 30+ skins in 3h as a trio lol

90 to 90 yes Emps are way faster.

Armageddon shouldn't even cross someone's mind when it comes to picking a "final" weapon for RNG. Yoichi is the clear winner for many reasons as soon as we go beyond the job of RNG itself.

When it comes to RNG and strictly RNG, Anni/Yoichi and to a lesser extent Gandiva are the way to go.

Yeah 400 should be when you're missing 2 of the 3 hits.... And being able to self light without pulling hate is pretty nice.

Pick up group is a pick up group? yeah i agree 400 jinshu is low but that's what they told me they were hitting for. I'm not sure how they were geared if they were having acc probs or not(although certainly seems like they were and i didn't care enough to compare and contrast their gear with it being a pick up group n all) point was to show the difference between the 2 weapons. That there are somethings that are physically resistant and would take more damage from a magic based WS like wildfire as opposed to a multihit physical like jinshu. The OP of this thread had asked which of the 2 EMPYREAN weapons was better, was just trying to show light on both the weapons they asked about so perhaps they could make their own informed decision between the 2.

No RNG talks about macc on Wildfire? Is it really non-existent?

I might have enough coins for making WoE gun soon, considering whether the gun is worth it for RNG outside brewing stuff.

From what I can tell it can't really "miss" but it can be resisted. So I believe magic acc comes into play for less resists. Cor has +20 magic acc from +2 empy feet and body. The WoE gun might be good for Cor who don't really need the aftermath but for rng who actaully TP with the weapon I think aftermath is a great bonus to have. But As far as DPS bows are probably the better choice. And as everyone else has said pretty much situational for Gandiva/Armageddon so why not put the effort to get both?

COR should get more benefit from Miser's and Tacticians than wizards in VW anyways. And should have both up unless mage needs evokers(which they shouldn't with temps).

I may be biased since I only pt with WF RNG in VW once, but personally I don't think WF RNG/SAM can beat COR/SAM in VW, since COR can add 20% extra WS dmg with fireshot, and able to gain tones of TP with QD. RNG has higher /ra DPS with better bullets/double shot/more snapshot and such, but since you have so much TP in VW with atmacite/temps/rolls/QD, it kinda favors WS dmg more than /ra DPS.

Back to the topic, OP didn't ask anything about relic, only ask about empy. I'd say get Arma if you do VW a lot, plus you can get the best brew WS in game if you still do abby. Gandiva is kinda meh in VW(WS dmg is decent, but doesn't do more than Arma for anything has high def/eva, and hate problem etc)

Of course if you're a career RNG with dedication get relic and screw empy XD

well since you only have had 1 experience w/ 1 wf rng and you don't seem to have rng lvled yourself, i don't think you have had enough experience with the situation to definitively say either way.. a WF rng can most certainly beat a wf cor overall in dmg through a VW fight. I have both jobs lvled, both jobs are geared equally, and have played both jobs on the same mob(s) for the same fights. almost always have a cor in the party i am in on rng so rng is getting same buffs as cor (miser/tacticians). WF does almost the same dmg on rng as it does on cor, due to slight differences in gear available to each job. Yes, cor has af3+2 boots which can add 20% dmg to your ws assuming you can fire shot first. But once again rng has significantly higher AGI naturally and a large amount of agi gear that's unavailable to cor (WF has a 60% agi mod). not to mention even w/ a perfect tact and miser roll, rng still is able to build that 100% tp faster then a cor can(cor mainly relies on that tact roll and atmacite for its tp gain being it wiffs anything important where rng can shoot twice n have its tp instead of waiting the extra 20-26s on regain), making it able to ws more often. so even if your rng is doing 100-200 less dmg per ws, if the rng can ws 20 times in a fight and a cor can only ws 15 times that rng is doing more dmg with ws alone in the long run. On certain fights (Pil for example) your QD isn't always available to shoot right before your ws (QD one of the only dmg that can put its shield down aside from the shields "weakness"). Do not misunderstand i am not saying it is impossible for a cor to out damage a rng, or that rng gets more use out of the gun b/c in actuality cor probably utilizes it better. But to say that a rng overall puts out less dmg then a cor when you don't have both jobs leveled or even have more then 1 single experience w/ a WF rng is a bit unfair. So you met a not so good wf rng, it happens all the time, ppl who play their jobs like crap but have empy for em anyway.

Maybe it's better to say COR got more self-sufficiency to pump better number on WF without relying too much on other jobs support?

Honestly not sure what the fear of pulling hate is when most talk is about VW. If you're going all out, chances are the mob is proc'd or your group is proc'ing reliably (so you're fulltiming Fanatic's). And then, usually other people are going all out unless they're currently working on a proc, so hate is pretty much shared at that point. Only concern would be MPKing mages, in which case you should just be standing away from them D;

Furthermore, I have seen plenty of CORs pull hate with Armageddon and RNGs pull hate with Yoichi in VW, so having one of those weapons definitely won't ensure you don't pull hate like people seem to be suggesting.

Now if the game were to move back to PLD tanks and only RNGs and SMNs for damage, then I'd agree that the hate argument is valid, but it doesn't seem relevant to most events you'd bring a RNG to nowadays.

That being said, I'm indifferent to the actual debate at hand. I wouldn't call myself a career RNG by any means, but I thought Gandiva was pretty easy to get. I take the chance to fight Bukhis whenever I can, I think it's a fun fight ;< Take two tanks and a WHM if you want to be safe.