Hotshot is still superbroken too (the most broken*)
Lolno, jinpu is a much better hybrid ws than hotshot due to its ability to self sc and a bit more consistent dmg, imo.
The only advantage hot shot has is probably piercing. The lack of consistency and shitty sc property really killed its potential to be actually useful, imo.
Wiki is very wrong and something like 90% of the population doesn't understand them.
Why do you always insist on insulting the wiki, rather than just updating what's inaccurate? A lot of work goes into those pages, so if something is off, fix it.
Wiki is very wrong and something like 90% of the population doesn't understand them.
Why do you always insist on insulting the wiki, rather than just updating what's inaccurate? A lot of work goes into those pages, so if something is off, fix it.
I never insulted wiki, that speaks more about you then me.
I say it's wrong because it is wrong and people like to reference it. It's accurate 99% of the time, this is the 1%, and I'm not a member of the wiki editor team and won't be making any major edits.
Hotshot is still superbroken too (the most broken*)
Lolno, jinpu is a much better hybrid ws than hotshot due to its ability to self sc and a bit more consistent dmg, imo.
The only advantage hot shot has is probably piercing. The lack of consistency and shitty sc property really killed its potential to be actually useful, imo.
It's not about skillchains. Just single ws damage.
Aside from savael's points about hybrid ws functions as dmg type composites, the hybrid WS's have very low and mixed stat modifiers much like blade ten - thus WSD will provide a huge contribution. Of course mab will help the mdmg portion and str can help fstr and potentially contribute to base stat. Ftp is pretty trash on the hybrids so proccing multi- hit can add sone moderate spike dmg.
Hotshot is still superbroken too (the most broken*)
Lolno, jinpu is a much better hybrid ws than hotshot due to its ability to self sc and a bit more consistent dmg, imo.
The only advantage hot shot has is probably piercing. The lack of consistency and shitty sc property really killed its potential to be actually useful, imo.
It's not about skillchains. Just single ws damage.
Skillchains have never been more powerful than they currently are in game. They absolutely should be a factor when comparing weaponskills.
Hotshot is still superbroken too (the most broken*)
Lolno, jinpu is a much better hybrid ws than hotshot due to its ability to self sc and a bit more consistent dmg, imo.
The only advantage hot shot has is probably piercing. The lack of consistency and shitty sc property really killed its potential to be actually useful, imo.
It's not about skillchains. Just single ws damage.
Skillchain kinda matters since the one good use of hybrid ws is solo cp. SAM can spam jinpu and kill apex really fast, since sc contribute to significant amount of dps. You cant do the same with hot shot spams. and truth to be told, for solo cp(no geo buffs) leaden 3 step with 2 tp roll up probably still kill faster than hot shot with 1 tp roll up and without geo, since leaden 3 step kills 1 apex crab quite easily there are no reason to use anything else unless that ws can kill 1 apex in 2 ws instead of 3. And without super buffs hot shot isnt 2 shotting apex.
Another use for jinpu that I can think of is to increase ws avg on low lv NM, since fudo has somewhat lowish ws avg, sometimes jinpu seems to avg higher. Even if fudo avg 30k and jinpu avg 31k, its still dps increase for sam.
But cor by nature has pretty high ws avg to begin with. Its not uncommon to see savage hitting 35k mark at 1000 tp, or even Occassionally 40k+ depending on content. So unless your hot shot avg even higher than that, its not dps increase. And its often really really tough to push hot shot avg that high at 1000 tp.
Overall, I feel cor doesn't get much out of hot shot compare with jinpu for sam, because of the other ws they have access to. Not having the ability to self sc is deal breaker. Even if hot shot has highest ceiling, I would say Jinpu is a better ws.
Hotshot is still superbroken too (the most broken*)
Lolno, jinpu is a much better hybrid ws than hotshot due to its ability to self sc and a bit more consistent dmg, imo.
The only advantage hot shot has is probably piercing. The lack of consistency and shitty sc property really killed its potential to be actually useful, imo.
It's not about skillchains. Just single ws damage.
Skillchain kinda matters since the one good use of hybrid ws is solo cp. SAM can spam jinpu and kill apex really fast, since sc contribute to significant amount of dps. You cant do the same with hot shot spams. and truth to be told, for solo cp(no geo buffs) leaden 3 step with 2 tp roll up probably still kill faster than hot shot with 1 tp roll up and without geo, since leaden 3 step kills 1 apex crab quite easily there are no reason to use anything else unless that ws can kill 1 apex in 2 ws instead of 3. And without super buffs hot shot isnt 2 shotting apex.
Another use for jinpu that I can think of is to increase ws avg on low lv NM, since fudo has somewhat lowish ws avg, sometimes jinpu seems to avg higher. Even if fudo avg 30k and jinpu avg 31k, its still dps increase for sam.
But cor by nature has pretty high ws avg to begin with. Its not uncommon to see savage hitting 35k mark at 1000 tp, or even Occassionally 40k+ depending on content. So unless your hot shot avg even higher than that, its not dps increase. And its often really really tough to push hot shot avg that high at 1000 tp.
Overall, I feel cor doesn't get much out of hot shot compare with jinpu for sam, because of the other ws they have access to. Not having the ability to self sc is deal breaker. Even if hot shot has highest ceiling, I would say Jinpu is a better ws.
The whole post, pointless. bold = the only point that was being made.
Instead of bothering to further make pointless points, ninja thread.
Aside from savael's points about hybrid ws functions as dmg type composites, the hybrid WS's have very low and mixed stat modifiers much like blade ten - thus WSD will provide a huge contribution. Of course mab will help the mdmg portion and str can help fstr and potentially contribute to base stat. Ftp is pretty trash on the hybrids so proccing multi- hit can add sone moderate spike dmg.
Hmm not really, Hybrids are weird and as I said Wiki is wrong, their fTP isn't 0.5/0.75/1.0, it's more like 0.5/1.5/2.5 and even though that looks low, realize that base DMG is measured in the thousands instead of hundreds.
Regular WS's have a base DMG of
BDMG = (WDMG + fSTR + WSC)
So your talking 400~700 depending on the weapon type and how big the WSC mods are(20/20 vs 50/50 vs 85). Then it's
BDMG * pDiff * fTP
WSD is tacked on the end for the first hit.
For hybrids, you run through that formula for all the melee hits (To is 2, Chi is 3) and add them together into a single number.
So for a Heishi at DMG 159 and some made up extra values
(159 + 15 + 100 + 75) = 349 BDMG (this is low)
One hit = 349 * 3.33 * 1.0 = 1162 Damage (this is very low and I'm not counting WSD on first hit)
Now add all three of those hits together and you get 3486, which just became the BDMG of the magic component.
So we can see there that while the physical component is relatively small, since it forms the base damage for the magic component, raising it by small amounts has significant effect on the final damage. 1K per hit on Chi is very low, I get much higher, about 5K for my physical component which in turn jacks up the magic component. With super buffs I hit 70~80K Chi's with the occasional 90~99K Chi firing off. Tekki and To work the same way but they are just two physical hits (main + off) and To has a 40/40 WSC. Weather can add another ~15% damage so don't forget to bug your WHM for that since their /SCH and all.
Ohh that was all at 1K, these WS's scale stupid powerful with TP bonus so extra TP just push's them that much higher.
Sechs you need to understand how Hybrid WS's work, Wiki is very wrong and something like 90% of the population doesn't understand them.
Hybrid WS's are two separate WS's that are added together to form the final damage. The first WS's total damage is used as the base DMG of the second.
Blade: Chi
First WS is physical with 2+1 hits, meaning both hits on the main hand with a bonus hit from the off hand and any extra hits from Multi-Attack. All hits are at a 1.0 fTP, gorgets add to the first hit only, WSD is applied on the first hit and WSC is treated like normal.
Second WS is magic and use's the total damage of the first WS as it's base damage, the fTP multiplier from TP is used here and seems to be around (0.5/1.5/2.5), this makes TP Bonus ridiculously good. Magic DMG is added after the fTP then you multiply by mDiff, weather bonus and so forth like all the other magic WS.
Both are added together and WSD is applied to the entire thing. Yes this means WSD gets applied twice, once to the first hit of the physical component and again to the entire thing.
Using this model I've been able to accurately predict all three hybrids for NIN on level 0 and apex monsters. You can actually get you first hits damage by just WSing level 0 mobs because the first hit is going to kill them resulting in 0 magic damage being done. Get with me in game if you want me to walk you thought all this, it's not well known and lots of bad info going around about it cause reasons.
The way you're describing it, it sounds incredibly similar to Flaming Crush.
Sechs you need to understand how Hybrid WS's work, Wiki is very wrong and something like 90% of the population doesn't understand them.
Hybrid WS's are two separate WS's that are added together to form the final damage. The first WS's total damage is used as the base DMG of the second.
Blade: Chi
First WS is physical with 2+1 hits, meaning both hits on the main hand with a bonus hit from the off hand and any extra hits from Multi-Attack. All hits are at a 1.0 fTP, gorgets add to the first hit only, WSD is applied on the first hit and WSC is treated like normal.
Second WS is magic and use's the total damage of the first WS as it's base damage, the fTP multiplier from TP is used here and seems to be around (0.5/1.5/2.5), this makes TP Bonus ridiculously good. Magic DMG is added after the fTP then you multiply by mDiff, weather bonus and so forth like all the other magic WS.
Both are added together and WSD is applied to the entire thing. Yes this means WSD gets applied twice, once to the first hit of the physical component and again to the entire thing.
Using this model I've been able to accurately predict all three hybrids for NIN on level 0 and apex monsters. You can actually get you first hits damage by just WSing level 0 mobs because the first hit is going to kill them resulting in 0 magic damage being done. Get with me in game if you want me to walk you thought all this, it's not well known and lots of bad info going around about it cause reasons.
The way you're describing it, it sounds incredibly similar to Flaming Crush.
Flaming Crush is a hybrid WS and it's not very well understood either because people keep saying "magic hit" when there is no such thing.
Guys I just had a great idea, what if the REMA augments work in the offhand, and Heishi gets WSD augment and then we can all offhand it with our kikokus.
Guys I just had a great idea, what if the REMA augments work in the offhand, and Heishi gets WSD augment and then we can all offhand it with our kikokus.
As far as we know Aeonics aren't getting Augments.
Might be a small mistake in the way they handled communication but so far it's the only weapon category that wasn't mentioned in their recent, generic message about upcoming augments.
I just had an instance where I countered, and had shadows up. No idea how, and I had no counter gear on, which means it came from Tactical Parry. Is it possible that Tactical Parry ignores shadows and can counter through them? I don't see what other way this would be possible, as even the monk I was with wondered how I was able to counter the attack.
Edit: just logged back into the game and tested. Tactical Parry counters can activate with shadows up and are not subject to the parry > shadow > evasion check, apparently.
I just had an instance where I countered, and had shadows up. No idea how, and I had no counter gear on, which means it came from Tactical Parry. Is it possible that Tactical Parry ignores shadows and can counter through them? I don't see what other way this would be possible, as even the monk I was with wondered how I was able to counter the attack.
Edit: just logged back into the game and tested. Tactical Parry counters can activate with shadows up and are not subject to the parry > shadow > evasion check, apparently.
Guys I just had a great idea, what if the REMA augments work in the offhand, and Heishi gets WSD augment and then we can all offhand it with our kikokus.
As far as we know Aeonics aren't getting Augments.
Might be a small mistake in the way they handled communication but so far it's the only weapon category that wasn't mentioned in their recent, generic message about upcoming augments.
I believe REMA are getting skill/ilvl upgrades. Su5 gear now has +269 skill so I'm guessing REMA will go to +297~ or so.
I just had an instance where I countered, and had shadows up. No idea how, and I had no counter gear on, which means it came from Tactical Parry. Is it possible that Tactical Parry ignores shadows and can counter through them? I don't see what other way this would be possible, as even the monk I was with wondered how I was able to counter the attack.
Edit: just logged back into the game and tested. Tactical Parry counters can activate with shadows up and are not subject to the parry > shadow > evasion check, apparently.
Tactical Parry gets the chance to Counter with job points invested.
